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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

EVlove 10-19-22 06:53 AM

Turns out I have a roll of cheap Zefal tape lying around that I ordered from Amazon by mistake, along with a Vittoria Rally I never needed. So that will become my spare then. I'll be sure to grab a set of those steel levers recommended above, as well.

At only $4 per roll I should actually practice with the Rally first, and find out how hard it is to remove.

Flashback to 30 years ago when I was commuting on tubulars and had to improvise after my first flat. No tape in stock at the LBS and I needed to get back on the road quickly, so I cut down carpet laying tape from the hardware store... I rode on that wheel for a long time IIRC but I was young and immortal and not exactly doing mile long descents in hot weather.

ETA: Ah, price does not include shipping. I could swear it did last time around.

Sorin 10-19-22 10:31 AM

I have found this locally , under 20$/ pcs . Quality? Feels really cheap but i haven't ride any tubular for more than 15 years. The one i had...idk what brand feels alot more suple .
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6945ad588e.jpg

Are an older version of Rally? I am confused of what i want to choose , i am restoring an old Peugeot PA10L and would be my 1st ride with this bike after more than 15 years. So i am thinking to choose a some cheap ones and see how is the ride . I could buy locally these or Continental Giro some Tufo or Schwalbe for about 30$ and much more expensive Specialized , like 100$/pcs. Anything else i need to order them from bike24 and pay 10$ for shipping. What do you think? Are these worth a try or buy Conti Giro /Tufo? Next step would be Challenge at 27$ , next Conti Sprinter for like 38$ , next Sprinter Gatorskin for just 42$ ...then we arrive at Corsa&Veloflex ..and more. All review are verry good for Sprinter or Gatorskin as a " cheap " tire but they are double price for what i have found and don't have the vintage look. Any oppinions?Please help me to choose one:)
I will buy for sure also Veloflex or Corsa , but only when i will see them on sale & after i will test the bike with some cheap or little bit higher ones.

squirtdad 10-19-22 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by EVlove (Post 22683892)
I went to my local coop for the first time today to donate a couple of bikes and was allowed to dig through the pile of road bike wheels way in the back. Score! An almost matched pair of very grubby looking wheels, no markings on either rim, nor on the rear hub, but the front hub was a Campy Record with matching skewer. They had a Campy-hubbed rear, as well, but it was 120mm. Also picked up a 27x1-1/4 rear for the Dawes ("how many of those can I send you home with?") and basically had to force them to accept a $20 donation for the three wheels.

One of the younger mechanics did give me the "anybody still ride on sew-ups?" line but all in good fun. Will have to read through a bunch more of this thread now for the current wisdom on cleaning the rims and gluing my Contis. My limited experience from back in the 90s was with tape and I may still decide to do that again. I never ride that far from home so calling the wife in case of a flat is an option 😉

here is my go to for gluing tires Tubular Tire Mounting Cement Gluing Adhesion by Yellow Jersey; Thoughts on a Front Wheel ymmv

EVlove 10-19-22 01:38 PM

Gave the wheels a good scrubbing with an old toothbrush and some (original formula) Krud Kutter, followed by dish detergent and water. Much more presentable now. Didn't have time for the bearings but they feel reasonably smooth as-is, so a clean and regrease should do.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d2b71c3e8c.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8692ca013b.jpg

One spoke has a kink, probably from rough handling at the bike coop. Would you straighten this, and how?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0f34877e31.jpg

Now the dirt is gone the gluing surface looks pretty good to me. Sorry, not quite in focus. Still too much residue?
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd0b411385.jpg

Classtime 10-19-22 01:43 PM

Sorin 20 bucks per is less than I paid for my Rallys when I tried them (and rejected -- never to buy again). But if you can get 3 tires for 60 bucks, go for it. OR tubular tire sewup tire Servizio Corse $19.95 tubular tires at Yellow Jersey; possibly the Best Value Tubular In America for 2022!

EVlove 10-19-22 01:55 PM

The 25mm Rally pre-stretching at what my crummy foot pump claims is 80 psi. These old rims are of course narrow, 20mm outside-outside, so the cloth is showing. Too much?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...73ee53b0dd.jpg

And there's actually another bent spoke. Ah well. I'm more worried that the valve sits so high (not in this shot but I can see daylight). Looks like I will need to build up tape/glue there, right?
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4d64fb73d2.jpg

Sorin 10-19-22 01:56 PM

Classtime , nice, America , the country of all possibilities. Where i live tubulars are not so popular, so all the online shop from my country doesn't stock them . Even for those Strada , they have only 2 😅😅, but i can buy Rally or whatever from bike24 and 10$ shipping cost.I have a little work on the frame, wating for new frewheel, pads go to bikeshop to redish the wheel , cold set frame , buy new axle maybe....and guess what? - Black Friday will come🤣🤣. Thanks Sorin.

79pmooney 10-19-22 02:46 PM


Originally Posted by EVlove (Post 22684733)
The 25mm Rally pre-stretching at what my crummy foot pump claims is 80 psi. These old rims are of course narrow, 20mm outside-outside, so the cloth is showing. Too much?

I've never even thought about that excess tape and I am sure I've display plenty to the world in my 25 years of exclusive tubular riding. The tire doesn't care. The bike doesn't care. Just you and other cyclists. (No one else is going to notice.) If your brake pad sneaks up a little (those darned centerpull/sidepull/dual pivot pads love to as they wear, the canti pads prefer the spokes) it will now be contacting sacrificial tape, not sidewall.

79pmooney 10-19-22 03:08 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 22684600)

The tool for mounting tires that I've had forever but just realized its best use is my el-cheapo truing stand with its flat bar construction and feet. Bolt my wheel in with the tire also running through the stand. Start with the valve at 6 o'clock. Grab the tire with each hand about 14" away from the valve. Standing on the stand's feet, I pull outward and up. When that first 10" or so are well centered and stuck, I do the same with the next portion. Final is the usual struggle but even there, the stand and being able to pull up hard makes it easier. And best part? That pulling is done with some of your body's strongest muscles.

My other trick is about 2 feet of 2x4 clamped in a bench vise. I lay the top of the inside-out tubular tread down on the 2x4, hanging down both ends. Glue tape, move 2 feet and repeat. With these two tricks, mounting has never been easier.

Oh, pre-stretching - need varies a lot by tire model and manufacturer. Some require it, others don't. Even the ones I don't pre-stretch, I mount on a dry rim before gluing to get a feel for how hard that tire needs to be stretched. Too much stretch or tool little for the first portion of the mount makes for a tire with larger and smaller diameters. (The fabric doesn't stretch much, it mostly just necks down.)

Robvolz 10-19-22 03:44 PM

So, thanks to the advise from all, I have new tires front and rear. The rear, which was the first I've attempted in a bit, I got glue everywhere. Vittoria glue is much more runny than Clement.

Anyway, on the rim I used paint thinner, took it right off. On the sidewall, its pretty ugly. I'm reluctant to use anything because I don''t want to chemically weaken the structure. Unless someone recommends it.

Anyone?

DiabloScott 10-21-22 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by EVlove (Post 22684708)
Didn't have time for the bearings but they feel reasonably smooth as-is, so a clean and regrease should do.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8692ca013b.jpg

Like warm BUTTER!


Originally Posted by EVlove (Post 22684708)

Now the dirt is gone the gluing surface looks pretty good to me. Sorry, not quite in focus. Still too much residue?
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd0b411385.jpg

Nah, that's good - so long as it's not bumpy.

SJX426 10-25-22 05:56 AM

Some of you have probably seen my 1971 Bianchi build - Bike Forums. Several years ago, I found an add on CL a batch of NISI TORO rims.
Fopr the Bianchi, I finally purchased spokes after years of procrastination. Did the measure of ERD to be sure as I could not find specs for the NISI.
Built them up last week and will mount 25 Vittori Corsa G+ on them. They are not glued in the pic.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...801aeeda_b.jpg71BianchiFWTruing on Flickr
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...501fa62525.jpg

HM70 10-30-22 04:27 PM

Changing rolling direction of used tubular
 
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...311c42700e.jpg
I got a cut on the tread of this tire. And it's opening up when I scrape the tire with my thumb. So I'm sure it will load up with debris as I ride. So my thought was to remove the tire and glue down the tread then remount it so it rolls in the opposite direction. Is there anything wrong with this approach? It's on its third season but this bike is not my regular ride. Thanks

79pmooney 10-30-22 05:07 PM

I'd glue that tab down with Shoe Goo. After that, direction will hardly matter.

Is that a lump I am seeing on the far side directly above the cut? Looks like there might be cut cord under the tab. In fact, it looks like there is a diagonal raised and slightly lighter in color stripe running under/through the cut. I'm guessing that the casing cord runs exactly at that angle and some strands have broken or been cut. If it were mine, I'd limit that tires miles to rides I had spares for and don't mind changing it or within the limits of patience of my ride service. (And my luck/belief - limit the tire to that and it will last me many more miles but a solo century would probably be its last ride. And I'm getting too old for those epic days.)

HM70 10-30-22 08:53 PM

Good observation! The lump is actually a spot where the tread is separating from the casing. The casing is is holding up great which is why I want to get many more miles on this set. I've only flatted once on the road with this set, put on my butyl spare training tire, but once home I used the Stans and remounted the tire. Works like a charm. (well two months later I needed to refresh the sealant).
So shoe goo is the way to go? I was just thinking vulcanizing cement like in the patch kit. Thanks!

79pmooney 10-30-22 10:15 PM


Originally Posted by HM70 (Post 22695906)
Good observation! The lump is actually a spot where the tread is separating from the casing. The casing is is holding up great which is why I want to get many more miles on this set. I've only flatted once on the road with this set, put on my butyl spare training tire, but once home I used the Stans and remounted the tire. Works like a charm. (well two months later I needed to refresh the sealant).
So shoe goo is the way to go? I was just thinking vulcanizing cement like in the patch kit. Thanks!

Shoe Goo isn't a miracle but it should work, doesn't do any harm and should keep debris out. Never considered patch kit cement. It'd be fun to run a tire with two of those flaps and try each approach side by side.

dddd 10-31-22 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by HM70 (Post 22695702)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...311c42700e.jpg
I got a cut on the tread of this tire. And it's opening up when I scrape the tire with my thumb. So I'm sure it will load up with debris as I ride. So my thought was to remove the tire and glue down the tread then remount it so it rolls in the opposite direction. Is there anything wrong with this approach? It's on its third season but this bike is not my regular ride. Thanks

I am seeing convex curvature on both sides of this tire.
I strongly suspect that the casing here is suffering an outer-ply failure, which is why the casing bulges on each side, but in different locations coinciding with the diagonal path of the outer ply's cords.

HM70 10-31-22 06:31 PM

After double checking I'm pretty sure the casing is still good. The tread has become separated near the slice but that occurred before the slice. Though I ride at 89 psi I pumped it up to 115 with no signs of bulging. Tire is a Challenge Strada 28x24. Thanks for noticing.https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a0e750db25.jpg

smontanaro 10-31-22 06:55 PM

Tread separation is a known problem with Challenge tires (tubular and clincher). It would seem they've yet to solve it, though one never knows how old a tire is. It's not like they have a "use by" date stamped on them.

gkamieneski 11-02-22 07:43 AM

Storing Spare Tubs
 
I guess I seldom have new tubs hanging around, but just now I have 2 new Sprinters on spare GL330s inflated to 50psi.

How long do people store sewups this way, or once stretched do they fold them and put them back in the box. Iím inclined to leave them on the stretching rims indefinitely, periodically checking pressure.

Classtime 11-02-22 09:34 AM

When I take them off the rims, they go back to pre-stretched condition. Especially Sprinters. Luv that Sprinter-330 combo..

gkamieneski 11-02-22 11:47 AM

I guess I was wondering what the detriment of the basement environment and always being partially inflated would be on the tires as opposed to being put back in their box. Inflating them and hanging them, I have shown myself that they hold air.

Chubby715 11-02-22 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by gkamieneski (Post 22698772)
I guess I was wondering what the detriment of the basement environment and always being partially inflated would be on the tires as opposed to being put back in their box. Inflating them and hanging them, I have shown myself that they hold air.

I have a spare, unlaced Ambrosio rim, so I always have a brand new Conti mounted on it. Inflated. Never looses air.

79pmooney 11-02-22 03:46 PM

I made a rack that holds tires in an oval like a long skinny auto racing track. Roughly 33 1/2" by 7". Holds about 20 tires. I put a gap in the center so you can drop a middle tire into the gap and easily work it past the rest to get it off and leave the rest undisturbed. Tires aren't "stretched" but do have all wrinkles and creases pulled out. Hanging in the garage out of any sunlight. My guess is that tires stored there should last until the rubber fails from ozone. (Plenty of powered shop tools but no house-hold motors or pumps. No engines of any sort,)

Now I just have to start building some more wheels to put them on. I'd like to have two pairs available per bike. GP4 and GEL330 or older Arc en Ciel. Biggest tire (or 28c+) that the bike can handle and a sweet and fast lighter tire. Sadly, one bike is stalled because that bike needs a rim with a deep sidewall. I picked up several Mavic CXP30s but the seller has misplaced the special washers they need for the spokes (and when Mavic announced the retirement of that rim, he bought all of Mavic's stock). So if anyone here has 64 or 96 or so of those washers lying around and generally getting in the way, I'll take them off their hands. (For the TiCycles fix gear of my avatar photo. I slide the wheel the entire length of the dropout to run from 12 to 14 teeth. Pad height relative to the rim changes a lot. Velocity Aeros have just enough depth to work. (No accident. The dropout angle was chosen so they would work.) GP4s and the like needn't even apply for the job.

I could cuss out the seller but he has done a lot for me. I knew what I was getting into and he added (at real cost but peanuts vs value) a pair of GEL330 wheels he built for his step daughter to take to the track nationals. Gorgeous gold Japanese track hub, double sided (I'd have to go out and look to recall the name but absolutely top of the line) built by a master wheel builder (him) with spokes tied and soldered perfectly. They've been ridden but never seen either pavement or a brake shoe. I'll be desecrating them taking them on the road, but I'll also be riding them in honor of a woman I consider a warrior and almost a sister. I've both watched and heard from her step dad how hard she worked to return to top form after nasty crashes. (I've been there.) She's retired from racing, the velodrome has been sold and will be ripped up. Her step dad's retired. And her wheels will go on under someone who knows what they are and cares where they came from. I think the gods will approve. (I've got Corsa Speed 25cs to glue on. I think they'd approve of that also.)

Fredo76 11-04-22 12:56 AM

Totally Tubular
 
New sew-up wheels and tires:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fb5cc8cc2d.jpg
Vittoria Corsa Control sew-ups

I saw a pair of unused tubular wheels on ebay, at the bargain price of $109. Silly me. Long story short - both were dished wrong, pulled an eyelet on the rear Weinmann Carrera, and replaced it with a FiR ST120. The Vittoria Corsa Control Graphene 2.0 front 30mm measures at 29, and the rear 28mm measures at 26, which gives me 4 to 5mm of clearance instead of 2 to 3.

The Zeus hubs are really graceful looking, and I went ahead and bought a Regina Oro French threaded freewheel (!) to be able to ride them. It needs a spacer, which I have, and the day after tomorrow is supposed to be sunny...

geeteeiii 11-06-22 09:52 AM

New Tufo S33 Pro-s for the upcoming season. Imo the best cheap tubulars out there.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cfab4cacbd.jpg

squirtdad 11-06-22 04:56 PM

Merlin has some good prices today

veloflex raven 28 mm $44 https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/v...0c-200100.html


of course there is shipping at 25 bucks or so

pastorbobnlnh 11-06-22 06:31 PM

squirtdad I've seen Rally's priced higher than those Veleflex Raven tubulars! That's a great deal.

Speaking of which--- I Know it's a RALLY. Is it Worth Regluing the Base Tape?

I was finally able to replace the broken spokes on my vintage Roval rear wheel. Thanks to seagrade I received replacements from New Zealand!

Of course I had to demount the Vittoria Rally to replace the spokes. When I got ready to remount the tire, I noticed the base tape separating from the tire casing. Upon closer inspection, I realized the tape was coming off the complete circumference of the tire on both sides. Interestingly, the center, over the seam, remains glued securely.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bf7e77e757.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2e804862ba.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dc285b7adc.jpg
Is it worth regluing? If so, regular tubular glue or something different?

At the time, I set this Rally aside and mounted a new one I had and the wheels are ready to go back on my Lotus Super Pro Aero.

dukeofearl 11-06-22 06:39 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 22702743)
Merlin has some good prices today

veloflex raven 28 mm $44 https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/v...0c-200100.html


of course there is shipping at 25 bucks or so

just ordered - thanks for the head's up!

Fredo76 11-06-22 07:03 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 22702832)
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dc285b7adc.jpg
Is it worth regluing? If so, regular tubular glue or something different?

In Olden Times, re-glueing base tape was a job for Barge. I would think it would be worth doing, even for just a spare. Not sure they sell Barge in small quantities anymore. I sure don't need a gallon...


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