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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

jackbombay 06-10-19 10:14 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20971389)
Are you the same jackbombay who posts on Samba?

Yep!

So far I have yet to sign up at a forum where the jackbombay username was taken!

Looks like I can now post pics?!?!

michaelcummings 06-10-19 10:23 PM

I like the way you think!

I used dual quadrant shifters to shift the sturmey 5 speed drum on my DL-1, and the big sturmey drum in front.

Rod actuated drum bakes - it has been fun make those work.

jackbombay 06-10-19 10:36 PM

So here is my resto mod hercules that I built up back on 2005, I think the frame is from 63' based on where the serial number is on the BB shell, but maybe you guys can confirm or refute that, the chrome fork crown cap was larger on the older Hercules I think, and this is the original chrome cap for this fork, so maybe it's newer than I think?

I had cable stops brazed onto the frame, got it powder coated semi gloss black, built up a nice set of wheels for it with some pretty darn light IRD 700c rims, I got a NOS 28 hole sturmey off Ebay for the rear wheel, and a 28 hole NOS Deore XT (From before there was XTR) front hub. I had a ti BB kicking around that I threw in there, but I did of course have to retap the BB shell, I used an old steel BB and cut grooves in it and spun it in and out repeatedly with a big drill, not elegant, but effective. Found some Mafac racer centerpulls in good condition that fit around the fenders and line up well, aluminum stem and bars, aluminum cranks, and thats about it, aluminum seat post. As it sits currently it is 25.6 pounds (about 12 kilos) Its a fantastic townie, and I've been cruising it on some longer rides too, this pic is on the beach at Lake Tahoe after I rode a century on it there,

https://i.postimg.cc/5yQdqP52/A6-F5-...68-F4-D2-C.jpg

And here I am putting a hurtin' on the emerald bay climb, I was able to average 16 MPH for the ride.

https://i.postimg.cc/J0c0QY7L/Emeraldbay.png

And another shot of me letting it roll down one of the descents on the west shore, according to Strava I hit 45 MPH right around here, seems about right based on the road biking I do.

https://i.postimg.cc/6Q5fbS4c/EBDH.jpg

I had the bike geared 52/24, which was pretty ideal for this ride, with that I spin out at about 22 MPH, and I never needed or wanted a gear lower than 1st, it worked well to do a lot of the climbing standing up in 2nd gear...

A shot of chrome and brakes,

https://i.postimg.cc/0Np8kc38/F1-A61...A41-DB34-E.jpg

How it's normally dressed for around town use,

https://i.postimg.cc/wvg97D8D/8-B846...8-BAEA4-F3.jpg

gster 06-11-19 04:36 AM


Originally Posted by Oldsledz (Post 20972180)
I got this Hawthorne Hercules about a month ago, the hub is dated 10 of 62 , I don't see any bikes with the Hercules name with this style chain guard did they mix in Raleigh parts on some bikes?https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0184585ddd.jpghttps://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81e948d54a.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...60635f3fe6.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f8ef73e470.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c26708adc.jpg

Original Tires?
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd52cbaf8b.jpg

You don't see too many British bikes with a curved frame.

clubman 06-11-19 07:25 AM


Originally Posted by Oldsledz (Post 20972180)
I got this Hawthorne Hercules about a month ago, the hub is dated 10 of 62 , I don't see any bikes with the Hercules name with this style chain guard did they mix in Raleigh parts on some bikes?

1960 era saw Raleigh use a lot of Birmingham stock on their secondary marques. Your fork, chainguard etc.


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20972288)
No kidding. I really know her just from Help and Bedazzled

I still laugh thinking about Peter Cook (the Devil) ripping the last page out of piles of Agatha Christie novels. :)


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 20972554)

And here I am putting a hurtin' on the emerald bay climb, I was able to average 16 MPH for the ride.

https://i.postimg.cc/J0c0QY7L/Emeraldbay.png

Jack, you are a hard man! Nice ride.

Velognome 06-11-19 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20972876)

Jack, you are a hard man! Nice ride.

Indeed! I used to climb out of the saddle on my IGH bikes, key words "used to". Still have horrible memories of when the hub disintegrated. Now I gear them so I can sit and spin. Hard man Jack, a hard man!

Salubrious 06-11-19 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 20972554)

https://i.postimg.cc/6Q5fbS4c/EBDH.jpg

I had the bike geared 52/24, which was pretty ideal for this ride, with that I spin out at about 22 MPH, and I never needed or wanted a gear lower than 1st, it worked well to do a lot of the climbing standing up in 2nd gear...

I am curious- why not go with the stock 46 tooth in the front, with a 21 in the rear? This gives you exactly the same ratios, the hub is totally rated for it (they used to make tandems running the AW hub) and overall the bike would weigh less (although not by much). Finding that 24 had to be a bit harder- although I really like the way the sprocket is drilled.

jackbombay 06-11-19 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20973113)
I am curious- why not go with the stock 46 tooth in the front, with a 21 in the rear? This gives you exactly the same ratios, the hub is totally rated for it (they used to make tandems running the AW hub) and overall the bike would weigh less (although not by much). Finding that 24 had to be a bit harder- although I really like the way the sprocket is drilled.

I had the bike geared 40/18 for many may years, but before this century I did a big/complete tune up, the 40 tooth ring was very worn, the chain was super stretched so I just started digging around through all my spare parts, I had the 24 (brand new) from who knows where and I had the 52 (those never wear out so it was essentially new) so all I needed was a new chain and I was in business. the 52 looks a bit out of place, but I dig it now! Maximizing gear size like I have done does add a bit of weight, but it also increases chain life. The bike will never be light so I'm of with a bit of extra weight here and there.

jackbombay 06-11-19 09:42 AM


Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 20973000)
Indeed! I used to climb out of the saddle on my IGH bikes, key words "used to". Still have horrible memories of when the hub disintegrated. Now I gear them so I can sit and spin. Hard man Jack, a hard man!

Out of the saddle climbing in 2nd gear is kind of safe though, yea? As it's direct drive?

What gear were you in when you blew up the hub? What gearing (chainring/cog) were you running with it?

88Tempo 06-11-19 10:40 AM

If there are any Colorado 3 speed fans there is a guy in the Arvada Craigslist selling off a large collection which looks to include a bunch of rod brake English bikes.

Ged117 06-11-19 12:36 PM

I'm having a hard time fitting my rear fender back onto the '50 Superbe. I think the Panaracer Col de la Vie tires are a bit bigger than the original. The front went OK with a little wiggling and adjustment, but the rear has been a pain. It is very tight right at the back where the fender reflector bolt end rubs on the tire. I'm wondering I could use a shorter bolt, but I am afraid to remove the reflector housing bolt. I suppose I will keep moving it around to find the best alignment. I think the trick is in where it mounts at the brake; there is something curious about the way they mounted the fender stay clip. I just have to run the shifter cable, install brake cables with original oiled housings, and dial in the shift adjustment before I install the 3 speed Cyclo derailer. I am very excited about the Cyclo unit because it will help on our local trails and my commute. I may even take it on an overnighter or weekender once I can trust it.

Salubrious 06-11-19 01:32 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 20973151)
Out of the saddle climbing in 2nd gear is kind of safe though, yea? As it's direct drive?

The strength of the hub isn't the issue IMO... how well the shift adjustment is set up and how worn the hub might well be. As you know, the hub has a notorious neutral between 2nd and 3rd. Its been known to slip out of gear with possibly painful results.

I stand on the hub all the time, until about 5 years ago never thought there might be any downside. But I still do it- i just make sure the shift cable is properly set and the hub well vetted. Since you've already done serious climbing with yours, its a good bet that both of these factors are sorted on your bike. But it is a good thing to know...

jackbombay 06-11-19 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20973581)
The strength of the hub isn't the issue IMO... how well the shift adjustment is set up and how worn the hub might well be. As you know, the hub has a notorious neutral between 2nd and 3rd. Its been known to slip out of gear with possibly painful results.

Ahh, yea, I do run clipless pedals so in the event of an unexpected neutral I have a bit of a chance of not racking myself on the top tube, but I also make sure the shift cable is adjusted correctly.


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20973581)
Since you've already done serious climbing with yours, its a good bet that both of these factors are sorted on your bike. But it is a good thing to know...

Yea, I'm the only person that has ridden/oiled this hub so there is nothing unknown in its past.

clubman 06-11-19 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20973581)
just make sure the shift cable is properly set and the hub well vetted. Since you've already done serious climbing with yours, its a good bet that both of these factors are sorted on your bike. But it is a good thing to know...

Just to be pedantic, the fulcrum stop clamp and axle nuts are equally important. If any of these 3 items move, there could be trouble. But you all know this.

clubman 06-11-19 02:21 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20973502)
It is very tight right at the back where the fender reflector bolt end rubs on the tire.

Yup. Just take a coarse hand file or dremel to shorten it, making sure to clean up any burrs. I'm not sure which fender/brake mount is being used here but sometimes you can put a spacer between the chainstay bridge and the front of the rear mudguard to shift the whole assembly back and possibly give you a nicer arc to work with.

sykerocker 06-11-19 06:20 PM

My latest 3-speed find: A 1935-ish Armstrong roadster, ladies frame. I'm rebuilding this one with the intentions of selling it to a WWII re-enactment group, the Woman's Land Army. These ladies put on some incredible displays, and most of what they've got are antiques, not something modern fudged to work.



https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4444ab388.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7859291f9.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0b8979335.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c01f73d37.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f7e14e97a.jpeg

Of course, what I'm lucked into is an "80% complete" bike, which means I'm looking forward to spending the rest of this year (at least) looking for the other 20%. Primarily: full chain case, and a lot of little parts for the rear brake. Hub is a Sturmey AW, although I'm not seeing any date stamp on the hub case, at least not in the places I'm usually used to looking at in '60's and '70's bikes.

If anyone knows of any sources for pre-war English bikes parts, I'd appreciate it if you'd pass them along. While I've done a number of '50's bicycles in the past few years, this is my oldest restoration attempt. Happily I've got my own DL-1 Tourist to check over if I start getting confused.

Ballenxj 06-11-19 06:31 PM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 20974003)
My latest 3-speed find: A 1935-ish Armstrong roadster, ladies frame. I'm rebuilding this one with the intentions of selling it to a WWII re-enactment group, the Woman's Land Army. These ladies put on some incredible displays, and most of what they've got are antiques, not something modern fudged to work.

Very COOL! Are they by chance online?

tigervw78 06-11-19 06:38 PM

Just saw these on CL. Men's and Ladies All Gold Editions.

https://northmiss.craigslist.org/bik...907727264.html

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4ce0e821ef.jpg

Anybody near this location interested? I wish I was closer.

nlerner 06-11-19 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 20974003)
My latest 3-speed find: A 1935-ish Armstrong roadster, ladies frame. I'm rebuilding this one with the intentions of selling it to a WWII re-enactment group, the Woman's Land Army. These ladies put on some incredible displays, and most of what they've got are antiques, not something modern fudged to work.


Of course, what I'm lucked into is an "80% complete" bike, which means I'm looking forward to spending the rest of this year (at least) looking for the other 20%. Primarily: full chain case, and a lot of little parts for the rear brake. Hub is a Sturmey AW, although I'm not seeing any date stamp on the hub case, at least not in the places I'm usually used to looking at in '60's and '70's bikes.

Great project! Iirc, the undated S-A AW hubs were from the year they first came out: 1936.

sykerocker 06-11-19 07:26 PM


Originally Posted by Ballenxj (Post 20974016)
Very COOL! Are they by chance online?

Unfortunately not that I've seen. The group is from the Williamsburg, VA area (I've known the leader and her husband for decades, as they're Burnley and Trowbridge, my main fabric suppliers for the historical costuming I do), and they're set up every year at Military Through the Ages at the Jamestown Settlement in mid March. Will do some other looking for pictures. There's something on the Women's Land Army on Facebook, but it's a British group. They've already got their bikes.

sykerocker 06-11-19 07:27 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20974072)
Great project! Iirc, the undated S-A AW hubs were from the year they first came out: 1936.

At which point, you may have just dated the bike for me. Thank you.

clubman 06-11-19 08:37 PM

Looks like a 0 so possibly a 1940 model as a flyer. Early-war?
I'd expect to see more blacked out chrome near the end of war.

jackbombay 06-11-19 09:30 PM

I have a 1987 Dahon folding bike with a Sturmey Archer AW in the rear wheel, I pulled the hub apart and cleaned it and reassembled, but now I don't have first gear, 2nd and 3rd work as normal. I did adjust the shifter cable plenty tight and that is not the problem. The shifter does go into the first gear position even with a shift cable that I would consider somewhat too tight. Any ideas of what I reassembled incorrectly?

I think that maybe the axle needs to be sticking further out on the drive side of the wheel? I did not measure axle protrusion before disassembling it, for reassembly I put the non drive side cone such that the gear that is fixed to the axle was about a 1/16" from "bottomed out".

jackbombay 06-11-19 11:32 PM

I disassembled and reassembled using the vid linked below, and now it works fine, I think it was that I needed to move the axle towards the drive side...


BigChief 06-12-19 03:58 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 20974318)
I disassembled and reassembled using the vid linked below, and now it works fine, I think it was that I needed to move the axle towards the drive side...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNxwMwzS3Jo

Glad you got it sorted. Not sure what went wrong the first time, but the axle is fixed in position. When you drop the planet gear cage on, it rests on a stop and is automatically aligned with the sun gear.


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