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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 09-11-19 05:49 AM


Originally Posted by HPL (Post 21117436)
Thank you both for the info. I certainly don't know enough about these bikes. I thought that the front looked suspiciously like a Sports, but I'm not familiar as to how many models/years that fender was used. I also did not think that either hub was original to the frame, and I was basing the year solely on the serial number. As I recall, the previous owner thought that one bike was a '36 and the other a '38; but I don't remember which was which. I'm trying to determine when the "no date" hubs were used; I don't believe I saw any date code on the "DYNOHUB" either, but I'll check again. Does the same BB assy as my '70 sports fit this model? I was assuming that most parts were interchangeable as I have extra hubs (front and rear) and a new TA or TC (?) BB. The men's frame has the top tube mounted shifter if that helps indicate a manufacturing time frame. Everything I tried to lookup for the serial gave me no specific year (could not find a "J" listing) except if following alphabetically it would be between '30 and '33 if indeed this particular model was produced back to that time frame. I hope it's not sacrilege to have this painted in a color other than black (my Sports is black); planning on both bikes to be "chrome" orange powder coated with black lugs, BB shell, fenders, chain guard, etc. As I've yet to hunt down specific parts; I was curious to know if the shift cable assy's, brake pads, and chain guard section were readily available as aftermarket parts?
Appreciate your taking time to help!

Except for the chaincase, this picture from the 1940 catalog matches your bike. Pretty sure yours is about from this period. With the enclosed chaincase, they were usually called Tourist, but old catalogs don't give us complete information. Since this bike is repainted, there's no loss in repainting it any way you want, although I would use enamel instead of powder coat myself. Mostly because it could be easily removed if someone in the future wanted to do a period correct restoration. For brake pads you have the choice between Kool Stop inserts that use the original pad holders or Fibrax which come as complete units. I like the kool stops because they are curved to match the rim. The fibrax have to wear in. I'd imagine all the ball bearings are the same as later models, but I've never had a bike this old so I can't say.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7fab880004.jpg

gster 09-11-19 06:24 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21117513)
Except for the chaincase, this picture from the 1940 catalog matches your bike. Pretty sure yours is about from this period. With the enclosed chaincase, they were usually called Tourist, but old catalogs don't give us complete information. Since this bike is repainted, there's no loss in repainting it any way you want, although I would use enamel instead of powder coat myself. Mostly because it could be easily removed if someone in the future wanted to do a period correct restoration. For brake pads you have the choice between Kool Stop inserts that use the original pad holders or Fibrax which come as complete units. I like the kool stops because they are curved to match the rim. The fibrax have to wear in. I'd imagine all the ball bearings are the same as later models, but I've never had a bike this old so I can't say.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7fab880004.jpg

BC is our resident archivist.
Big Chief (of Detectives...)

HPL 09-11-19 12:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21117513)
Except for the chaincase, this picture from the 1940 catalog matches your bike. Pretty sure yours is about from this period. With the enclosed chaincase, they were usually called Tourist, but old catalogs don't give us complete information. Since this bike is repainted, there's no loss in repainting it any way you want, although I would use enamel instead of powder coat myself. Mostly because it could be easily removed if someone in the future wanted to do a period correct restoration. For brake pads you have the choice between Kool Stop inserts that use the original pad holders or Fibrax which come as complete units. I like the kool stops because they are curved to match the rim. The fibrax have to wear in. I'd imagine all the ball bearings are the same as later models, but I've never had a bike this old so I can't say.

Thanks "Chief"! I managed to find the exact bike now that you schooled me; Model 38 Ladies "Sports C. Tourist", from a 1938 catalogue! The front "DYNOHUB" is from the 60's due to it being chromed; but it was an option in that model year per the catalogue. Let's hope it turns out as nice as it's much younger cousin, which I'm still working on even though it presently rides and looks good the way it is. Rear hub can't be earlier than 1937, developed in '36, selling in '37; and shows all the characteristics of mid 40's or earlier, so a good chance that it is OE. It did have the shifter mounted on the bars, but it should be on the "top" tube as per all the examples I've now seen, so hunting for that shifter and cable.


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21117536)
BC is our resident archivist.
Big Chief (of Detectives...)

You've got that right gster!

BigChief 09-11-19 03:07 PM


Originally Posted by HPL (Post 21118170)
Thanks "Chief"! I managed to find the exact bike now that you schooled me; Model 38 Ladies "Sports C. Tourist", from a 1938 catalogue! The front "DYNOHUB" is from the 60's due to it being chromed; but it was an option in that model year per the catalogue. Let's hope it turns out as nice as it's much younger cousin, which I'm still working on even though it presently rides and looks good the way it is. Rear hub can't be earlier than 1937, developed in '36, selling in '37; and shows all the characteristics of mid 40's or earlier, so a good chance that it is OE. It did have the shifter mounted on the bars, but it should be on the "top" tube as per all the examples I've now seen, so hunting for that shifter and cable.



You've got that right gster!

Nice looking Sports there...I don't think your Dyno Hub is from the 60s. Here's mine from my 1951 Rudge. Yours looks like an even older design than that. Sometime in the early 50s Sturmey archer changed the center part of the hub from black to chrome. Raleigh was slowly changing parts from black to chrome or zinc plating through the 1950s. Things like cable clips, shifter cases, bottom bracket spindles, shifter guide wheels and nuts and bolts. What you're looking for is called a quadrant shifter. I'm afraid real ones are pricey. I have seen reproductions on eBay for a lot less. All you need for a quadrant shifter is the inner cable. No housing necessary.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e6229b0e8e.jpg

gster 09-12-19 06:16 AM

Starting a Project
I'm feeling inspired by this concept of a 3 Speed/6 Speed conversion
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ed4bcc1f91.jpg
A '61 hub with a 20T cog dished in and an 18T dished out.
Probably not enough of a spread but it's what I had in stock to test...
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9858991243.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 09-12-19 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by groth (Post 21116480)

A foldcycle yes, but not a Brompton. Dahon, maybe?

groth 09-12-19 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21119125)
A foldcycle yes, but not a Brompton. Dahon, maybe?

You're correct - it's a Dahon.

Ged117 09-12-19 08:33 AM

Gster - great project idea. I think I've got the cable dialed in properly, thanks for the tips Chief, Bomarc, and Gster. High, Normal, and Low all engage now. It was tricky getting Low or 1st to work without slipping and adjusting gently so that all were equal. I think it is OK now, we will see. This morning I took a 16 kilometer ride (following my girlfriend to work for her first ever ride-to-work day aboard her early '90s Bianchi Main Street, an early hybrid with a Tange steel frame). The Raleigh is so fun to ride - and comfy. I may look for a longer stem - maybe from a Raleigh Twenty? I'm all legs so the bars could be higher.

The Cyclo 3 speed set up helps in that the big cog has 21 teeth, so the AG in Low and the chain on the big cog makes for an easy going ride, and is useful for reasonable hills. It also helps when I shift the AG into Normal or High gear as its on the 21T cog. I experimented a little, switched into High, and moved the chain to the second sprocket (it is either 17T or 19T I forget) this morning, and the dapper old fellow really boogied along the flat river path with some gentle encouragement. I don't know about taking the bike beyond 30 km/h, I think it calls for gentle ride moods or a steady pace over distances. I've also eliminated the brake squeal by toeing in the rear calipers taken from the '79 Sports, adjusting the Tektro 800a mounted front pads, as well as tightening up the mount bolt. With the Kool Stops, the bike will stop quite well. I'm impressed by its comfort and durability. Cheers to the builders of these machines.

It is really fun to ride a machine that has been brought back to life after decades in the dark.

JaccoW 09-12-19 10:27 AM

I'd love to build a bike around one of those cyclo conversions. They tech seems just really cool to me

PeterLYoung 09-12-19 11:14 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21117491)
Wheels, Wheels, Wheels
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...60ad0c3594.jpg
Two rear wheels waiting for frames..
FG is a 1965 hub with the EA1 rim
behind is a '61 hub with a standard EA3 Dunlop rim with new rubber.
It was a VERY tight fit.
I would say the rarest part on these hubs is the oil cap.
I'd like to get my hands on a box of NOS caps....

Those Oil Caps are hard to find but do turn up on eBay from time to time, I have removed several while doing restoration work and put them in a 'safe place' only to not be able to find them 6 months later. My tip is to put them in a medium sized 'Ziplok' bag so they are effectively too large to lose.

Salubrious 09-12-19 11:21 AM

I ride to work any day I can. Its been raining hard a good portion of this week but I have good rain gear.

However after stopping at the grocery store when I got back to my bike it had fallen over because of a flat rear tire. This is the third time this tire (Col De Vrie) has gone flat. I think I'm done with them; I rode my Michelins until the compounds literally perished but the Col De Vries are only a few weeks old. I like their ride but in my urban environment they don't seem practical. Fortunately I was too lazy to change out the front tire (still the Michelin) so I can put the remaining Col De Vrie on ebay as brand new.

IME the Kendas are a better tire for less money...

adventurepdx 09-12-19 12:51 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21119588)
This is the third time this tire (Col De Vrie)(sic) has gone flat. I think I'm done with them; I rode my Michelins until the compounds literally perished but the Col De Vries are only a few weeks old. I like their ride but in my urban environment they don't seem practical. Fortunately I was too lazy to change out the front tire (still the Michelin) so I can put the remaining Col De Vrie on ebay as brand new.

IME the Kendas are a better tire for less money...

What pressure are you running the Col de la Vies at?

When I got the first set of Col de la Vies maybe five years ago, I was also getting flats consistently. But I was also trying to run them at a pressure closer to what I would run on the Delta Cruisers. I think I had them at 50-55 psi, which is actually over the max listed 45. I just thought 45 psi was too low. Someone I knew who had them told me it wasn't a problem to run them higher, so I did. Because of the bad luck I had with them, I avoided them for a few years.

But then a couple years back I decided to try the Col de la Vies again. This time, I decided to keep them at 40-45 psi. And I got a lot less flats. Maybe the original pair I had came from a bad batch, I don't know. But it definitely seems like lowering the psi solved the problem. The one big thing about running such narrow tires at that pressure is you have to be more on it with inflating.

I still have a set of Col de la Vies on my "sportier" three speed, since I use it less, and ride it less loaded. I switched back to Schwalbe Delta Cruisers for my Superbe. I find them to be the best balance of price, durability, ride quality, and (especially) looks. They're making a cream-walled version in 650A, which looks very nice.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...999d9b253a.jpg

Salubrious 09-12-19 01:21 PM

I've been running them at about 50 pounds. What's been happening each time is the inner tube was punctured.

ascherer 09-12-19 03:31 PM

From the Department of Anecdotal Evidence:

I run my Col de la Vies at roughly 50 rear and 45 front. Mostly commuting and errands in Manhattan, somewhere around 2000 miles on them. Recently got my first flat, snakebites from hitting a construction plate too hard.

adventurepdx 09-12-19 04:17 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21119776)
I've been running them at about 50 pounds. What's been happening each time is the inner tube was punctured.

Try them at 40-45 and see if it lessens the punctures. I usually do 40 front/45 rear, and I'm no lightweight.

paulb_in_bkln 09-13-19 06:08 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21119588)
I ride to work any day I can. Its been raining hard a good portion of this week but I have good rain gear.

However after stopping at the grocery store when I got back to my bike it had fallen over because of a flat rear tire. This is the third time this tire (Col De Vrie) has gone flat. I think I'm done with them; I rode my Michelins until the compounds literally perished but the Col De Vries are only a few weeks old. I like their ride but in my urban environment they don't seem practical. Fortunately I was too lazy to change out the front tire (still the Michelin) so I can put the remaining Col De Vrie on ebay as brand new.

IME the Kendas are a better tire for less money...

My impression is they're not intended to be an urban or commuting tire at least not where you're likely to encounter debris. I stand by my wish that Grant had revived 650A, not B. Then we'd now have lots of good tires to choose. I'm liking the Panaracer Ribmos my LBS sold me a couple months ago (700c size on a different bike). But I've not had much luck with Kendas of any size. The sidewalls always seem to shred.

gster 09-13-19 06:54 AM

Conversion..
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fa343c06c9.jpg
I've attached the derailleur to the drop out.
I needed to expand the opening slightly to accept the backer.
Not enough to prevent returning to original.
Cogs are now 17 and 20.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af6f50b672.jpg
I've got a single SA throttle shifter to try.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cb40e4d41d.jpg
I just need a new chain to test.

Ged117 09-13-19 09:18 AM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 21120009)
From the Department of Anecdotal Evidence:

I run my Col de la Vies at roughly 50 rear and 45 front. Mostly commuting and errands in Manhattan, somewhere around 2000 miles on them. Recently got my first flat, snakebites from hitting a construction plate too hard.

I've set up the Superbe's tires just the same. They aren't cheap so I hope my experience will be like yours has been. They ride so pleasantly like all panaracer tires. I have Pasela PT on my touring bike and regular Pasela yellow sticker tires on the Peugeot. My Superbe will see commutes, day rides, and the odd weekender, so I'll stick with 45 and 50ish or a little less.

tmac100 09-13-19 11:51 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 21120085)
Try them at 40-45 and see if it lessens the punctures. I usually do 40 front/45 rear, and I'm no lightweight.

I had issues with sidewall failures on my rear wheel (26") when I pumped my Schwalbe Marathons to 50 psi. Finally I decided to buy a large pump and a Schwalbe digital gauge instead of using my small compact pump and cheapo car tire pressure gauge that maxed at 50 psi.

At 65 to 70 psi I have NOT had anymore tyre failures - and that was while travelling from Perth, Australia to Sydney. My bike is fully loaded as I am an unsupported tourer.

adventurepdx 09-13-19 11:56 AM


Originally Posted by tmac100 (Post 21121284)
I had issues with sidewall failures on my rear wheel (26") when I pumped my Schwalbe Marathons to 50 psi. Finally I decided to buy a large pump and a Schwalbe digital gauge instead of using my small compact pump and cheapo car tire pressure gauge that maxed at 50 psi.

At 65 to 70 psi I have NOT had anymore tyre failures - and that was while travelling from Perth, Australia to Sydney. My bike is fully loaded as I am an unsupported tourer.

But we're talking about two different tires here. Panaracers are generally lighter, more supple than Schwalbes. Suppler tires typically run at lower pressures. For example, my Schwalbe Delta Cruisers are rated 65-85psi, so I run them 65 in front, 70 in rear.

tmac100 09-13-19 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 21121292)
But we're talking about two different tires here. Panaracers are generally lighter, more supple than Schwalbes. Suppler tires typically run at lower pressures. For example, my Schwalbe Delta Cruisers are rated 65-85psi, so I run them 65 in front, 70 in rear.

Yes, agreed we are talking about 2 different tyres, and different situations (touring in outback Australia vs ...). The only point I am making is that increasing tyre pressure has reduced my flats.

FWIW, on a recent self-guided bicycle tour in SW France using rented Scott e-bikes, my travelling companion had a "low" front tyre. Wouldn't you know it, but she got a pinch flat. I then made sure all tyres on all bikes had LOTS of air pressure. Result? No more pinch flats. 🙄

adventurepdx 09-13-19 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by tmac100 (Post 21121402)
Yes, agreed we are talking about 2 different tyres, and different situations (touring in outback Australia vs ...). The only point I am making is that increasing tyre pressure has reduced my flats.

And reducing tire pressure has reduced my flats! :D

tmac100 09-13-19 01:16 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 21121404)
And reducing tire pressure has reduced my flats! :D

Different strokes, for different folks. Moral of this discussion is: use the tyre pressure that works for you. BUT, always bring tyre levers and a patch kit/spare tube AND a good bicycle pump.

Murphy is around ... always 😜

adventurepdx 09-13-19 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by tmac100 (Post 21121411)
Different strokes, for different folks. Moral of this discussion is: use the tyre pressure that works for you. BUT, always bring tyre levers and a patch kit/spare tube AND a good bicycle pump.

And in the case of a British Three Speed: Don't forget your spanner!

tmac100 09-13-19 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 21121412)
And in the case of a British Three Speed: Don't forget your spanner!

I ALWAYS carry proper (and) extra tools/parts. That means, in my anal-retentive way, I carry a spoke wrench AND spare spokes and other bits ... Needed them in outback Australia.

Did I mention a spare chain, chain links, and a chain tool? My tools are high-quality ones (usually Park). Let down seveeal times with Chinese (aka cheap) tools in the middle of no-where Australia. My tools have helped other travellers too ...


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