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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

conradpdx 03-15-12 12:22 AM


Originally Posted by photogravity (Post 12983739)
You know, but I think you are right about the white not being on the fender originally. I suppose I'll leave it alone since I don't want to destroy the originality of the bike.

I am definitely about practicality and definitely will add a taillight of some sort to the bike, and a headlight too. Likely I'll add a dynamo hub will also be in the works. After all, I plan to take at least one of these bikes on the Lake Pepin 3 Speed Tour (if I can get signed up) next year and lighting is something that I believe will assist in keeping me safe. I am slowly converting all my bikes to add dynamo lighting as I continue my move towards internal gear hubs. They are a technology that are made for each other, IMO.

I got a 70's Superbee in green with no white tail, but traditional reflector. I've been having trouble dating mine, no dynamo, older cranks, pump braze-ons, locking fork. Hub date isn't readable other than a faint 7. I've got a "feeling" it's a 71 with a replaced rear fender. Ill add my picks later.

photogravity 03-15-12 02:56 AM


Originally Posted by PatrickZ (Post 13973172)
The Norman Rapide is a beautiful bike! Did I miss a thread on this one? What type of hub does it have?

Indeed the Norman is a truly fetching specimen. There is a thread on that bike here, though it wasn't started by me but instead by rhm, who has loaned me the bike. Thanks rhm!! :) As far as the hub it has a SA FW, so its presence in this thread is inappropriate. ;)

conradpdx 03-15-12 09:19 PM

well three days of on again off again reading and I've now read them all. Awesome thread, great info. Even took some notes and made a google doc of some the info so I don't have to read through it again to find specifics.

Time to post my pics of my Superbe of undetermined age (I'm guessing a 71, perhaps a 76 in that it was registered in LA in 76)---as rough as they are (I'm by no means a photographer). But first some interesting info on my baby.

First it features 2 serial number stamps on the frame. One on the underside BB and one on the top of the lug below the seat. No Dynamo, pump or bag. The rear fender lacks a white tail, but is original to the bike (Raleigh sticker and pinstripes on it). I know from a catalog that I saw online that in 72 the dynamo was an optional package, but I've yet to see a 71 catalog yet, but everything seems to fit.

Hub does no good in determining its age. The shell seems to have been a bad stamp, in that only half the pressing seems to have made an impression. There is one hint of a number (where the year stamp should be) in the stamp but I can't determine if it is a 1 or the right half of a 7 (I'm pretty sure it's a 1).

Sadly since these photos were taken, the saddle split (knew it was going to happen since there was a tear against the frame when I bought it) so it now features a newer schwinn cruiser sprung seat that I took off the wife's bike before cutting it apart for a long abandoned bike trailer project. I'll get a new one soon I hope. I have already taken the hub apart (mostly out of interest than need) thinking next winter of stripping and doing a more through cleaning than I've done now. I hope to soon goto 22T rear cog and new chain (next payday), gunna keep an eye out for a front dynamo and light set as well, and will probably go with alloy rims soon too, just not sure if I want to got 700 or not.

Though I admit I thought of updating it with 5 speed drums and dynamo/drum combo, but I think I'll save that for an future Sports or Cruiser frame. Wrestling with this decision was why I didn't do a complete strip down/clean this winter.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W...0/IMG_1359.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-o...252520tube.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N...252520Bike.jpg


Of all the bikes I've owned this one is my favorite to ride, though I do still love Schwinn Cruisers, I spent much of the early 80's delivering the Detroit News on one (my burb was one of the last to replace kids on bikes with only auto routes), wish I still had that one and the newspaper bags. But I also in the early 90's had a Raleigh MT400 one of the first front suspension fork bikes I had ever seen, expensive at the time but well worth it. Figured that if I was going carless living Downtown, then I could at least get an awesome bike. Spent a lot of time tearing up Forrest park and downtown on that baby. Though in hind site I wish I had the 3 speed bug back then.

Anyway really love this thread, and thanks to all who have given such great information and advice. Know full well you're helping many who never post o

Schwinnsta 03-16-12 07:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)
My Sports is similar in that the stamping on the hub only shows the 7 and I have determined it to be a 71.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=241591

AngeloDolce 03-17-12 10:46 AM

The graphics and logos are definitely earlier than 76 - by 73 or 74 the down tube had a squarish geometric R, while the Heron with the gold stripes on your bike looks like late 60's and could easily be 71.

More details on dating at

http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh.html

http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/hanczyc/engbike.html

conradpdx 03-17-12 11:12 AM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 13981222)
My Sports is similar in that the stamping on the hub only shows the 7 and I have determined it to be a 71.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=241591

Looks like between the two of us we have a complete stamp on the hub....

photogravity 03-17-12 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 13977467)
well three days of on again off again reading and I've now read them all. Awesome thread, great info. Even took some notes and made a google doc of some the info so I don't have to read through it again to find specifics.

Time to post my pics of my Superbe of undetermined age (I'm guessing a 71, perhaps a 76 in that it was registered in LA in 76)---as rough as they are (I'm by no means a photographer). But first some interesting info on my baby.

First it features 2 serial number stamps on the frame. One on the underside BB and one on the top of the lug below the seat. No Dynamo, pump or bag. The rear fender lacks a white tail, but is original to the bike (Raleigh sticker and pinstripes on it). I know from a catalog that I saw online that in 72 the dynamo was an optional package, but I've yet to see a 71 catalog yet, but everything seems to fit.

Hub does no good in determining its age. The shell seems to have been a bad stamp, in that only half the pressing seems to have made an impression. There is one hint of a number (where the year stamp should be) in the stamp but I can't determine if it is a 1 or the right half of a 7 (I'm pretty sure it's a 1).

Sadly since these photos were taken, the saddle split (knew it was going to happen since there was a tear against the frame when I bought it) so it now features a newer schwinn cruiser sprung seat that I took off the wife's bike before cutting it apart for a long abandoned bike trailer project. I'll get a new one soon I hope. I have already taken the hub apart (mostly out of interest than need) thinking next winter of stripping and doing a more through cleaning than I've done now. I hope to soon goto 22T rear cog and new chain (next payday), gunna keep an eye out for a front dynamo and light set as well, and will probably go with alloy rims soon too, just not sure if I want to got 700 or not.

Though I admit I thought of updating it with 5 speed drums and dynamo/drum combo, but I think I'll save that for an future Sports or Cruiser frame. Wrestling with this decision was why I didn't do a complete strip down/clean this winter.

Of all the bikes I've owned this one is my favorite to ride, though I do still love Schwinn Cruisers, I spent much of the early 80's delivering the Detroit News on one (my burb was one of the last to replace kids on bikes with only auto routes), wish I still had that one and the newspaper bags. But I also in the early 90's had a Raleigh MT400 one of the first front suspension fork bikes I had ever seen, expensive at the time but well worth it. Figured that if I was going carless living Downtown, then I could at least get an awesome bike. Spent a lot of time tearing up Forrest park and downtown on that baby. Though in hind site I wish I had the 3 speed bug back then.

Anyway really love this thread, and thanks to all who have given such great information and advice. Know full well you're helping many who never post o

Hey conradpdx, very nice bike. You did a wonderful job with the cleanup.

As far as the hub. In the 1971-1972 timeframe, SA changed the stampings on the hubs. Does yours look like the first picture or like the second picture with all the extra lines in the stamping? If it looks like the second picture, we can pretty safely say it's a 1972 or later atmo.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7178/6...2d2fd7b1_b.jpg
Sturmey AW 71 2 by Sallad Rialb, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7188/6...08476bbf_b.jpg
Sturmey AW 72 6 by Sallad Rialb, on Flickr

Sixty Fiver 03-17-12 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 13977467)
well three days of on again off again reading and I've now read them all. Awesome thread, great info. Even took some notes and made a google doc of some the info so I don't have to read through it again to find specifics.

Time to post my pics of my Superbe of undetermined age (I'm guessing a 71, perhaps a 76 in that it was registered in LA in 76)---as rough as they are (I'm by no means a photographer). But first some interesting info on my baby.

Gorgeous bike.

There are not many Superbes rolling around Portland and the ones I have seen for sale have rated a pretty penny... my friend stages some nice rides in Portland for three speed lovers and hope that when I am down next we can stage a little pootle.

conradpdx 03-17-12 11:36 AM

It's definitely the first one. However like I said it's a bad stamping, in that (in relation to the pic above ) nearly every thing below the logo is missing, The stamp where the date should couldn't be seen until I scribbled a sharpie over the surface and then used 000 grit steel wool to clean the surface of the hub to see what remained of the ink left in the recessed area of the stamp (I guess playing D&D as a kid paid off). Likewise on the right hand side of the logo is faded or missing too.

But thanks it's always nice to get good help in dating, it's a little overwhelming at first, and weirdly underwhelming at the same time (lots of info gaps). Normally I'd be a bit peeved over the fact that the guy I bought it from claimed it was a 60's model, but I'll let this one slide since I like that fact that my bike is the same model year as I am.

And I wish I could take more credit in the cleaning, I've just basically wiped it down, and hit the rims and chrome with a little foil and simple green. Biggest problems have been adjusting the gears, took me forever to figure out that the clamp for the fulcrum wheel had slid a bit over the years.

Next winter I'll tear her down and do a more complete cleaning. Getting too close to riding season to start now.

conradpdx 03-17-12 11:41 AM

Thanks Sixty Fiver

Yeah I lucked out, especially since I forgot to mention its a 23".

And the 200 bones it cost in this market I feel is reasonable. Especially since I've seen lesser bikes going for more. I've even flipped Free Spirt for nearly that much.

By the way I haven't intend to ever really flip bikes, I by them to fix up for my wife, and she'll lead me on then not ride them once I build them up for her. Honestly I don't think shes that interested in riding, but mostly likes to keep me in the garage instead of the house.

photogravity 03-17-12 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 13982928)
It's definitely the first one. However like I said it's a bad stamping, in that (in relation to the pic above ) nearly every thing below the logo is missing, The stamp where the date should couldn't be seen until I scribbled a sharpie over the surface and then used 000 grit steel wool to clean the surface of the hub to see what remained of the ink left in the recessed area of the stamp (I guess playing D&D as a kid paid off). Likewise on the right hand side of the logo is faded or missing too.

But thanks it's always nice to get good help in dating, it's a little overwhelming at first, and weirdly underwhelming at the same time (lots of info gaps). Normally I'd be a bit peeved over the fact that the guy I bought it from claimed it was a 60's model, but I'll let this one slide since I like that fact that my bike is the same model year as I am.

And I wish I could take more credit in the cleaning, I've just basically wiped it down, and hit the rims and chrome with a little foil and simple green. Biggest problems have been adjusting the gears, took me forever to figure out that the clamp for the fulcrum wheel had slid a bit over the years.

Next winter I'll tear her down and do a more complete cleaning. Getting too close to riding season to start now.

Then a 1971 it is!! I've got a 197? one with the latter style stampings, that I can't read the second digit, so it's not uncommon that they're unreadable. I think that people used those hub cleaner things which seem to wear the stampings and that may be what happened to your bike.

photogravity 03-17-12 11:47 AM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 13982940)
By the way I haven't intend to ever really flip bikes, I by them to fix up for my wife, and she'll lead me on then not ride them once I build them up for her. Honestly I don't think shes that interested in riding, but mostly likes to keep me in the garage instead of the house.

Sounds like a familiar story around these forums! :D My wife is always happy to have me doing something that keeps me out of her way and that is productive in some form or fashion.

conradpdx 03-17-12 01:49 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 13982892)
Gorgeous bike.

There are not many Superbes rolling around Portland and the ones I have seen for sale have rated a pretty penny... my friend stages some nice rides in Portland for three speed lovers and hope that when I am down next we can stage a little pootle.

Am I right in assuming that you are referring to http://tweedpdx.net/.

I just discovered this event last week and was planning on going. Though my attire isn't so much tweed, being a construction worker I'm more likely to wear something from the Firehose line of clothes from Duluth Trading company for my all weather riding kit. They are wind and rain proof, and since wearing their gear at work I've been able to ditch my traditional rain gear at work. Now if they could only make them fire proof too, I'd be a really happy camper since I'm an iron worker/welder, and go through clothes faster than an AW leaks oil.

Looks like I only got two weeks to upgrade to a 22 tooth cog. Depending on the route, it could get pretty hilly. Especially through the Sunnyside and Hollywood neighborhoods.

Funny that Ninkasi Beer is one of there sponsors. I worked as a prep cook with Jamie (the founder of Ninkasi) at the Steelhead brewery in Eugene, he was an apprentice brewer there. Not that he'd be at the ride (I haven't seen him in years - not even sure he'd remember me), but just confirmation of the fact that I've always claimed that Portland is the biggest small town in the country.

But I love the fact that the ride is 3 speeds and non-road bike wear. My fantasy bike shop would charge customers an additional 10% for parts and services for each piece of spandex blend someone was wearing, another 50% for if there rigs were carbon fiber. I just have never seen the point unless you're racing.

photogravity 03-17-12 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 13983291)
But I love the fact that the ride is 3 speeds and non-road bike wear. My fantasy bike shop would charge customers an additional 10% for parts and services for each piece of spandex blend someone was wearing, another 50% for if there rigs were carbon fiber. I just have never seen the point unless you're racing.

+1 I ride in my jeans or cargo shorts all the time. It appears you have the same disdain for spandex and CF as I and many others here on the forums do! :thumb:

markk900 03-17-12 04:57 PM

I have no issue with Spandex, even on a 3-speed.....it all depends on who is wearing it! (and for the record, NOT me)....

Mark

Fenway 03-17-12 05:03 PM

I've added scans from a 1940s-50s service manual (I'm going to scan the entire manual at some point and make sure it gets sent to the Headbadge and a few other places to make it available as a resource.) for wiring Sturmey Archer Lights to the full Dynohub series, wiring diagrams for the Dry Accumulator Unit (DAU) / Filter Switch Unit (FSU), / Dry Battery Unit (DBU), and photo instructions how to repair what's probably the most common cause for the DAU/FSU/DBU units not working in this thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post13983796





photogravity 03-17-12 05:28 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 13983795)
I have no issue with Spandex, even on a 3-speed.....it all depends on who is wearing it! (and for the record, NOT me)....

Mark

This is true! While I'm not crazy about Spandex, I'm MUCH more tolerant of it on ladies than on men for some reason! :D

conradpdx 03-17-12 07:00 PM

Ok you got me there.....

However in Portland 99% of the spandex riders are middle aged men....the same ones who ride your tail at Sunday Parkways while your keeping pace with your 7 year old daughter and loudly complain that you're slowing them down...

michael k 03-18-12 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 13982940)

Yeah I lucked out, especially since I forgot to mention its a 23".

And the 200 bones it cost in this market I feel is reasonable. Especially since I've seen lesser bikes going for more. I've even flipped Free Spirt for nearly that much.

She's a nice one Conrad,you did well!

Maybe we will see ya'll this summer at Sunday Parkways. :thumb:

djkashuba 03-18-12 01:59 PM

New Rack on my DL-1, it's from Gazelle. Very stable ... a great improvement over the original kickstand. B & M tail light, Philosophy pannier.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7190/6...6c97e8ea_b.jpg
Raleigh DL-1 Tourist by djk762, on Flickr

Lenton58 03-19-12 10:41 PM


Raleigh DL-1 Tourist by djk762
Absolutely gorgeous — very nicely done — right down to the front lamp. Many years ago while visisting friends in Oxford, England, I drank in the pubs full of students. The bar would have dozens of these things lined up. It was a finable offense to cycle in Oxford without a lamp. The police still patrolled on big black bicycles.:thumb:

gonzo_ja 03-20-12 11:53 AM

If Nexus would make a nice shifter, I could be convinced to upgrade a three-speed. Until then, it's S-A all the way.

Amesja 03-20-12 01:04 PM

Since I can buy SA SW hubs for $2-3 I doubt I'll be buying an SRAM or Shimano new unit any time soon. Sorry but you can't beat time-proven designs at dirt-cheap levels. If I want something with more than 3 gears then we are talking new/new prices and then performance and price both come into play. I still like the newer Sturmey-Archer stuff. Only good came out of it when it was bought by the Taiwan company and brought back up to Asian high-tolerance specs rather than the worn-out junk machinery the Brits were building them with.

yellowbarber 03-21-12 06:22 AM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 13994978)
Since I can buy SA SW hubs for $2-3

I was going to take on teaching myself how to teardown & rebuild an AW but couldn't find one for much less than $30ish .

Amesja 03-21-12 06:23 AM

For $30 you can typically find one with the rest of the bike attached.

Velognome 03-21-12 06:29 AM

Think Bike Co-op

Amesja 03-21-12 06:35 AM

Or garage sale. It's not like before the 70's 10-speed craze the AW hub wasn't popular. About half the bikes sold in the USA were wearing an AW hub out back almost.

waverley610 03-21-12 08:42 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Name the builder?

or How to relax those frame angles!

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...4&d=1332340930

rhm 03-21-12 09:47 AM

Hercules!

BigPolishJimmy 03-21-12 11:16 AM

no way the kickstand kept that load up while they were stacking


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