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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Salubrious 01-30-15 08:22 AM

I think its about that frame geometry. I have a friend who is really into them and that is what he likes about it.

teaboy 01-30-15 09:07 AM

I find the same thing with the bars on most old bikes maybe we are the same same shape. I just fit a a new stem and riser the purists hate it but i love riding 3 speeds.Why be uncomfortable?

rhm 01-30-15 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17513144)
Hey y'all. I picked up a mid 70s Tourist cheap last night. Its in good condition and does not seem to need a lot of service. I got it because I wanted to find out what that relaxed geometry is all about. But one thing I don't get is the brakes. They have a reputation for not stopping in wet conditions. Dry they work fine.

What I want to know is why they did it this way on this model. Durability?? Seems unlikely... My guess is that is an old design that never got put to bed. Anyone know what's up with them? I'm just really curious. Its a tall gentlemanly ride... Even though its a tall frame I feel like the bars are too far back.

I assume by "Tourist" you mean something like a DL1 or roadster, with rod brakes etc, the design of which is over a century old. They are designed to withstand conditions that we'd consider third world. At that time time Bowden cables were a new invention not available everywhere. If you have a simple one-speed bike with rod brakes, you can perform just about any necessary repair with a crescent wrench.

The riding posture is a lot like standing up.

Salubrious 01-30-15 10:53 AM

1 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=431509Yes DL-1- thanks for that explanation!

I have to admit there is a certain charm even though it does not seem that practical. The seat certainly is comfortable. How in the heck did Raleigh manage to keep such a design in production for so long?? 3rd world markets?

The way it is set up right now the seat looks further forward than I am normally used to. But given the relaxed geometry maybe that's right. Tight manoeuvring is tricky- it feels like the handlebars want to run into my thighs. Moving the seat back and the bars up might help. Any suggestions for what to look for when it is set up right?

It came with the owner's manual and warranty card shown in the foreground.

teaboy 01-30-15 11:32 AM

They were made for people who mainly used them to get to work and back[ basic transport ] When i was kid way back in the 60s rod bakes were torn off by us then we could fit drop bars Next thing we did was to throw the mudguards away [what would they be worth now] So even back then they were seen as old and outdated technology Now after all those years I am back messing about them WHY

ironchefchris 01-30-15 11:49 AM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17512455)
this is from the 76 sales brochure . the saddle looks the same . how is the leather on it ( quality ) . its kind of small but not a B72 for sure ...http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...psbsnsr954.jpg

it's a vinyl mattress saddle, its in ok shape, few scuffs and tears but nothing major. I was thinking of grabbing a new saddle for it but I dig the feel compared to my old wrights I have laying around. I kind of prefer a bigger softer ride these days (I'm 6ft1 200lb). I'm going to take it apart (springs and all are really rusty) and see how it cleans up and if I can patch those tears up a bit, if not maybe i'll look at something like an electra saddle or something along those lines.

Velocivixen 01-30-15 12:00 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17514258)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=431509Yes DL-1- thanks for that explanation!

I have to admit there is a certain charm even though it does not seem that practical. The seat certainly is comfortable. How in the heck did Raleigh manage to keep such a design in production for so long?? 3rd world markets?

The way it is set up right now the seat looks further forward than I am normally used to. But given the relaxed geometry maybe that's right. Tight manoeuvring is tricky- it feels like the handlebars want to run into my thighs. Moving the seat back and the bars up might help. Any suggestions for what to look for when it is set up right?

It came with the owner's manual and warranty card shown in the foreground.

I came upon a 1960 Raleigh "Owner's manual" which instructed the rider to initially place the nose of the saddle 3" behind an imaginary vertical line up from the bottom bracket. That's where I started on my Phillips. Good your saddle is comfy.

Salubrious 01-30-15 06:05 PM

My manual says that too. I don't think its really all that accurate though, unless everyone is the same height...

gna 01-30-15 10:19 PM


Originally Posted by ironchefchris (Post 17511694)
anyone know what this saddle might be or if it's an original? looks there was some sort of tag on it between those 2 rivets that was removed on the back...this is on my 76 Raleigh sports. I was thinking about replacing it, but it looks pretty cool and feels pretty good
http://s11.postimg.org/8wi77q2w3/IMG...128_152607.jpg

As you say, it's a vinyl mattress saddle. Common as a cost-cutting measure by the late '70s on the Sports:

http://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleigh...-77-sports.jpg

The one I had the tag broke, too. It may be original, but I've run into a lot of flippers who take off the leather saddle and put a vinyl saddle on instead, then try to sell the saddle for more $$$.

Velocivixen 01-31-15 02:19 PM

Could someone post a picture of a 1955 English 3-speed appropriate "prop stand" (as Raleigh referred to it. aka kickstand)? Where can I get one?

nlerner 01-31-15 02:45 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Lousy pics, but here's what the 1955 Raleigh catalog shows:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=431709

desconhecido 01-31-15 03:21 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Two kickstands. The first is on the 1951 step-through "Light Sports Roadster" and is probably a match to the catalog image above.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=431714

It's a pretty nicely machined alloy piece and would probably really shine if someone put the effort into it. Note the Raleigh Industries logo.

This next is on a 1979 Sports and is probably similar to what Raleigh went to on the less expensive Sports bicycles I would guess in the 50s. I say the 50s because I have seen remarks by people familiar with Raleigh Sports bicycles of the 50s commenting on what nice kickstands the Raleigh Industries stands were. Meaning to me that the RI stands would have been uncommon on Sports bikes in the later 50s. I have an un-restored 56 but it appears to have a crappy replacement stand so I can't say anything about what it came with: RI or other.

Anyway, here's the 79 stand:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=431713

Not bad, but not the finish and form of the RI stand.

Personally, either style would be acceptable and I would troll ebay. The later, plainer stands should be about as common as dirt.

dweenk 01-31-15 03:33 PM

VV

My 1970 Sports has the ESGE Pletscher kickstand, original AFAIK.

Velocivixen 01-31-15 03:37 PM

Great! I saw one on the large auction site. Unfortunately the bottoms of the chain stays are dented I suspect due to too tight of a kickstand attachment.

desconhecido 01-31-15 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17517496)
VV

My 1970 Sports has the ESGE Pletscher kickstand, original AFAIK.


Probably the same stand on the 79 in the photo above. I think it's a Pletscher but I can't go out to the garage to check for sure as I've used up all my recess time for the day.

edited to add: some of this sort of thing is available on Amazon.

HELP, HELP, I'm being repressed!

Bandera 01-31-15 04:08 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17517506)
Great! I saw one on the large auction site. Unfortunately the bottoms of the chain stays are dented I suspect due to too tight of a kickstand attachment.

The ESGE light alloy stands that we installed "back when" were cut to fit a particular customer's machine, the stand from a Sports would not fit a Record.
If you buy an old stand that is cut too short for your machine you have an ugly paperweight.

ESGE still makes alloy single and double-legged stands and Greenfield makes a good inexpensive alloy copy.

dweenk 01-31-15 04:16 PM

+1

Greenfields are great. Period correct or not, I would get one that attaches to the seat and chain stays (they call it a stabilizer).

markk900 01-31-15 04:20 PM

For reference, the "shuresto" seems to have been a popular stand as I have this type of adjustable stand on both the 49 Humber and 56 Standard.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps8ab77efc.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psd77a1862.jpg

michaelz28 01-31-15 04:41 PM

i got my bike from the original owner with 25 miles on it ...1974 sports if it matters . definitely not alloy though http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps4krihmab.jpg

markk900 01-31-15 04:54 PM

@Velocivixen: this one is modern but sure looks like the old ones:

Avenir Aluminum Bike Center Mount Kickstand 285mm Long 20"24"26" 700C Silver NEW | eBay

Ugly way to make it fit (hacksaw) but for $2 who cares?

Velocivixen 01-31-15 04:55 PM

Hey all, what a nice variety of kickstands. Lots of choices. I've got some Greenfields, although haven't measured them (off other bikes). @markk900 - I must say that your "shuresto" is very interesting and unusual. Is that original to the bike, and if not, where did you manage to find it? Very cleverly designed.

I'm attending the "Society of Three Speeds" get together tonight at Velo Cult. Apparently there will be a trivia game with prizes - so I've been studying up.:thumb: I'll post later about how it went.

desconhecido 01-31-15 05:05 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 17517677)
@Velocivixen: this one is modern but sure looks like the old ones:

Avenir Aluminum Bike Center Mount Kickstand 285mm Long 20"24"26" 700C Silver NEW | eBay

Ugly way to make it fit (hacksaw) but for $2 who cares?

Maybe the guy who orders it and gets dinged with almost $44 (US) for shipping. (ouch!). You'd be bettor off ordering four of them from Dick's Sporting goods at $8 each and thus qualifying for free shipping on orders over $25. Then, you could sell the three that you don't need on Ebay for $1 each with $15 shipping and probably come out about $10 ahead. That would make the one you used free.

This reminds me of the Nando's "where's the change" commercial.

markk900 01-31-15 05:05 PM

The shuresto on both my and my wife's bikes were (to the best of my knowledge) added by the original owners. I did not add them or source them, but was showing that two bikes that made their way to Canada presumably through very different paths had the same stand - making me assume they were fairly common. I love that they are "elegantly" adjustable, with a screwdriver rather than a hacksaw.

Say hello to Shawn from Mark in Ontario for me please! And good luck on the trivia contest....

markk900 01-31-15 05:06 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17517700)
Maybe the guy who orders it and gets dinged with almost $44 (US) for shipping. (ouch!). You'd be bettor off ordering four of them from Dick's Sporting goods at $8 each and thus qualifying for free shipping on orders over $25. Then, you could sell the three that you don't need on Ebay for $1 each with $15 shipping and probably come out about $10 ahead. That would make the one you used free.

This reminds me of the Nando's "where's the change" commercial.

I am in Canada and see shipping charges like that all the time - I assumed that was unique to me! However, looks readily available anyway....

Number_6 01-31-15 05:06 PM

It's interesting. My '85 Team USA road bike had what looked to be your average aftermarket alloy kickstand on it. I was mounting it on the Sirrus when I noticed "Raleigh" was stamped on the outside- so back it went on the Team USA

desconhecido 01-31-15 05:23 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 17517706)
I am in Canada and see shipping charges like that all the time - I assumed that was unique to me! However, looks readily available anyway....

Ok, I apologize. When I look at the ad in US ebay it says $4.99 shipping. I didn't realize that the extra high shipping was just for shipping to Canada.

Man, those kind of rates really suck.

Reminds me of a joke my father used to tell. Over and over.

Every day the guy goes across the border on his bicycle with a bag of sand. Every day, the border agent looks through his sand for contraband and finds just sand. Finally, when the border agent is about to retire, on his last day, he says to the guy, "every day for the last twenty years you've been coming across the border with a bag of sand and every day I search it and find nothing. You've got to tell me, on my last day, you've got to tell me, what have you been smuggling."

The answer in my father's joke, was, of course, bicycles. Perhaps the updated joke answer would be kickstands.

markk900 01-31-15 05:36 PM

No worries - but with the loonie tanking (under $.80) and shipping like that it is no wonder I buy stuff from Australia and the UK rather than the US. Even my CR18s and tires cost me almost $50USD ($75 CAD) shipping....

michaelz28 01-31-15 09:28 PM

did sports and the such come with kick stands or was it a dealer add on ? mine looks a little generic . I'm looking at the 74 sales brochure and i don't see on on the bike .

desconhecido 01-31-15 09:59 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17518306)
did sports and the such come with kick stands or was it a dealer add on ? mine looks a little generic . I'm looking at the 74 sales brochure and i don't see on on the bike .

Judging from what I've seen on bikes (though, my experience is not broad and deep, as is the experience of some others here), what's in the catalogs, and what Bandera remembers, I'd guess that it changed over the years and maybe depended on the model. Our 51 appears to have the genuine Raleigh Industries stand, which probably came with the bike, but the 56 I recently acquired has a crappy after market stand and I'm guessing it was probably shipped without and the stand was installed by the dealer. But, of course, this is speculation.

michaelz28 02-01-15 12:09 AM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17517646)
i got my bike from the original owner with 25 miles on it ...1974 sports if it matters . definitely not alloy though http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps4krihmab.jpg

the top of the clamp is on wrong ... some assembly required ...i fixed it .


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