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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

SirMike1983 01-15-22 07:45 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22375345)
Well, thanks to the enabling of @thumpism and @clubman, those two bikes are now in my possession. Here's the Raleigh Sports:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1a9c3eb026.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5eb190d996.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...88362f81b5.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ec94b57c36.jpg

You can see that rear hub is "AW Patent" without a date code, which I believe = its first year of production: 1936. I have PDFs of the 1935 and 1936 catalogs, and am not seeing a perfect match, but something about this one leads me to believe that it's all original, maybe even the B17 "made in Great Britain" (though that looks more late 1940s to me)? Wheels are EA3/26 x 1 3/8".

The grips are a brand I've never seen before:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b91df8c3ec.jpg

Warren, if you want that stem, email me: lerner dot n at gmail dot com.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4b8baf572a.jpg


Oh, and this Peugeot was the other bike in the lot, some sort of early 70s UO8 variant. Also seems quite original:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...72289f950f.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f5ba4c584a.jpg

I think that hub is later than 1936. There's an earlier version with no date and "Patent Pending" on it. Once the patent was awarded, it went to "Patent". But it still looks like a pre-WWII bike to me. I'd guess 1938-40 period based on the no date code hub with "Patent". It's a great find and a good project to have. It should make a good rider.

BigChief 01-15-22 11:51 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22375345)
Well, thanks to the enabling of @thumpism and @clubman, those two bikes are now in my possession. Here's the Raleigh Sports:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1a9c3eb026.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5eb190d996.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...88362f81b5.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ec94b57c36.jpg

You can see that rear hub is "AW Patent" without a date code, which I believe = its first year of production: 1936. I have PDFs of the 1935 and 1936 catalogs, and am not seeing a perfect match, but something about this one leads me to believe that it's all original, maybe even the B17 "made in Great Britain" (though that looks more late 1940s to me)? Wheels are EA3/26 x 1 3/8".

The grips are a brand I've never seen before:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b91df8c3ec.jpg

Warren, if you want that stem, email me: lerner dot n at gmail dot com.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4b8baf572a.jpg


Oh, and this Peugeot was the other bike in the lot, some sort of early 70s UO8 variant. Also seems quite original:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...72289f950f.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f5ba4c584a.jpg

That's the most interesting Raleigh I've seen in a while. This is pre-hockey stick and models without chaincases had bare chainrings. I have to find my backup files with catalogs and load em into this new computer. I don't remember when the hockey sticks started. Post war I think. Anyway...I'm done with projects and I have a pre-war Raleigh stem in good condition.

nlerner 01-16-22 08:22 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 22375687)
That's the most interesting Raleigh I've seen in a while. This is pre-hockey stick and models without chaincases had bare chainrings. I have to find my backup files with catalogs and load em into this new computer. I don't remember when the hockey sticks started. Post war I think. Anyway...I'm done with projects and I have a pre-war Raleigh stem in good condition.

Thanks, BC! I have this stem in my bin that came off a ‘37 Sports that had spent many decades in someone’s back yard:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ae0f67459.jpeg

Could be a good candidate for one of those DIY plating kits once I sand off all the corrosion?

To complicate matters, I asked a knowledgeable friend about the rear hub, and he’s fairly convinced that it’s from 1946. Hmm. Here's the Sports page from the 1947-48 Raleigh UK catalog. Lots of hits, except for wheel size: Mine has EA3 or 26 1 3/8" Dunlop rims (and stainless spokes), not EA1 or 26 x 1 1/4".
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...13b3f99ae3.png

BigChief 01-16-22 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22375872)
Thanks, BC! I have this stem in my bin that came off a Ď37 Sports that had spent many decades in someoneís back yard:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ae0f67459.jpeg

Could be a good candidate for one of those DIY plating kits once I sand off all the corrosion?

To complicate matters, I asked a knowledgeable friend about the rear hub, and heís fairly convinced that itís from 1946. Hmm. Here's the Sports page from the 1947-48 Raleigh UK catalog. Lots of hits, except for wheel size: Mine has EA3 or 26 1 3/8" Dunlop rims (and stainless spokes), not EA1 or 26 x 1 1/4".

Got my catalogs back! Seems like the modern deep mudguards didn't appear until the 1940 catalog. Odd that the ladies light roadster came with the chainguard but the gents didn't.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a661f36150.jpg
So for 1940 it would have had the stem mounted lamp bracket. Here's what I have in my box of goodies.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f47591dc88.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c2a3310c6a.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c07e65f13e.jpg

markk900 01-16-22 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 22375913)
Odd that the ladies light roadster came with the chainguard but the gents didn't.

To protect the skirts!

SirMike1983 01-16-22 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22375872)
Thanks, BC! I have this stem in my bin that came off a Ď37 Sports that had spent many decades in someoneís back yard:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ae0f67459.jpeg

Could be a good candidate for one of those DIY plating kits once I sand off all the corrosion?

To complicate matters, I asked a knowledgeable friend about the rear hub, and heís fairly convinced that itís from 1946. Hmm. Here's the Sports page from the 1947-48 Raleigh UK catalog. Lots of hits, except for wheel size: Mine has EA3 or 26 1 3/8" Dunlop rims (and stainless spokes), not EA1 or 26 x 1 1/4".
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...13b3f99ae3.png

1946 for the hub is certainly also possible, but with a 46 bike, I would expect some blackout type parts too. I have found most of the no date hubs that I have come across to be right before and right after WW2.

BigChief 01-16-22 01:24 PM

I should have mentioned since the catalog image is so small here...The 1940 catalog lists 1 3/8" tires for the Light Roadster.

thumpism 01-17-22 10:13 AM

SIXTY DOLLARS FOR BOTH in NJ!!!

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...49072546754940

https://scontent.fric1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...Vg&oe=61E9CC9B

cudak888 01-17-22 02:25 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22377182)
SIXTY DOLLARS FOR BOTH in NJ!!!

451 rims and a non-folding frame? Were these features ever offered outside the UK market on the Twenty? Don't recall offhand.

-Kurt

Vintage Schwinn 01-17-22 06:13 PM

Here is an interesting old 3 speed for $40 in Athens GA (where Univ of Georgia is located)
It is one of those late sixties/very early seventies models with the large center stick shift.... that proved to be somewhat potentially dangerous in accidents and the consumer products safety council campaigned to educate the public and pressure the bike manufacturers to eliminate such shifters.
It appears that the seller believes it may be an AMF (but it clearly is appears badged as AMC Flash), but the cottered 3 piece crank may be indicative that it is probably not of AMF manufacture, and probably was made by some other maker and specifically model named for some once existing retail chain.

https://athensga.craigslist.org/bik/...432573282.html

gster 01-18-22 04:03 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 22375687)
That's the most interesting Raleigh I've seen in a while. This is pre-hockey stick and models without chaincases had bare chainrings. I have to find my backup files with catalogs and load em into this new computer. I don't remember when the hockey sticks started. Post war I think. Anyway...I'm done with projects and I have a pre-war Raleigh stem in good condition.

I've seen a similar stem on an old Iver Johnson track bike.
A very nice option.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c18e57c72a.jpg
I can imagine that back then, a team might have a couple of bikes and several riders that could adjust the stem to suit.

27inch 01-19-22 01:01 AM


Originally Posted by Vintage Schwinn (Post 22377752)
Here is an interesting old 3 speed for $40 in Athens GA (where Univ of Georgia is located)
It is one of those late sixties/very early seventies models with the large center stick shift.... that proved to be somewhat potentially dangerous in accidents and the consumer products safety council campaigned to educate the public and pressure the bike manufacturers to eliminate such shifters.
It appears that the seller believes it may be an AMF (but it clearly is appears badged as AMC Flash), but the cottered 3 piece crank may be indicative that it is probably not of AMF manufacture, and probably was made by some other maker and specifically model named for some once existing retail chain.

AMF Flash


https://athensga.craigslist.org/bik/...432573282.html
[img]https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/600x450/amc_flash_7e99bb38e46e353ba5920c9ae3265c15580d4685.jpg

I remember those very bikes, they had them at the old Kress store where I grew up in the late 60's and early 70's. I remember getting thrown out of the store after riding one around the store and down a flight of steps to the basement level.
The branding AMC Flash is old, I've had balloon tire bikes (built by Schwinn), that had the same brand.
The three speeds with the pointed chainguard and Shimano 333 set up were Japan,Taiwan, or Hong Kong built bikes.

nlerner 01-20-22 04:16 PM

Here’s an update on my 1940 (most likely) Sports Light Roadster project. A pic from when I first brought it home:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...94cccd26e.jpeg

And after cleaning and polishing:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c624c26f.jpeg


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8b0f1b5a4.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f464e4a7e.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe86f0444.jpeg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...806e05cd0.jpeg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f167a608d.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...386ee8142.jpeg

The bars are alloy from V-O and the GB stem is likely a placeholder. I also have new Schwalbe tires on order as you can see that front tire that I had in the bin is too narrow. Haven’t taken it for a test ride yet as I did something wacky with the brake reassembly and now they don’t work very well! I’ll figure that out.

BFisher 01-20-22 07:18 PM

@nlerner, impressive shine on that for its age. Looks great.

clubman 01-20-22 08:35 PM

There's the reason those guys dipped their hands in plating and paint vats in Nottingham in that corporate film.

It's a beauty bike.

Ged117 01-20-22 09:00 PM

There is something special about a '40s or '50s Raleigh in black enamel. When these earlier bicycles pop up, I still get the three-speed warm glow that Sixty-Fiver wrote about.

ascherer 01-20-22 09:47 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22381486)

Quadrant shifters make me swoon.

nlerner 01-20-22 10:05 PM

Thanks, all. This bike was clearly put away in dry storage for 60+ years. Barely any corrosion on the bright parts and just a bit of scraping on the main triangle. Interestingly, no evidence of ever having been fitted with a kickstand! Woohoo!


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 22381844)
Quadrant shifters make me swoon.

This is likely the third bike I've setup with a quadrant shifter, and they work really, really well. Less fussy than trigger shifters on the bars.

dirtman 01-21-22 01:59 AM

I found this light on a ladies Sprite I had bought last summer, it had a pair of old dead red Panasonic batteries in it and a bulb that looked good but wouldn't light.
It uses a threaded base type flashlight bulb.
I dug around in a drawer and found a 2.4v rated bulb that would fit but it wasn't very bright. I took the whole thing apart, cleaned up the inside and the switch contacts, then I took a single square LED element out of one of those freebie flashlights from Harbor Freight. I took the original threaded bulb that wouldn't work, heated up the base and unsoldered the original filament wires, and heated it up enough to separate the tiny glass globe. I then added a single resistor figured for 2.5v, and reassembled it all into the original bulb assembly.
It will light at 2.2v and above, with a likely max of about 9v. Its powered with two D batteries in the pic but I'll probably make up a 7,4v Li-Ion battery pack for it using either a cell phone battery or a combo of 18500 batteries.
On the two alkaline D batteries, which weren't new, its now been lit as you see it for 11 hours straight, so charge life on better batteries will likely be far greater.
Not sure why I messed with it, I'll likely never use it but it seemed a waste to have it and it not being in working order. Besides, the life span of the batteries with an incandescent bulb was likely a couple hours at best at far less brightness.
I may try making a brighter bulb option with the other bulb I've got, or maybe using an automotive fog light LED bulb with a higher voltage battery pack to get better projection overall.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9781958bd5.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9c13017d42.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8cbb218823.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2fb97ae97b.jpg

Its not as good as a modern LED light you can buy today but its far better then it was when new and it still looks like it belongs on an old bike.
If the bike had a Dynohub, I could easily set it up to charge off the hub, but for now, its battery only.

SirMike1983 01-21-22 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22381486)
Hereís an update on my 1940 (most likely) Sports Light Roadster project. A pic from when I first brought it home:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...94cccd26e.jpeg

And after cleaning and polishing:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c624c26f.jpeg


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8b0f1b5a4.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f464e4a7e.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe86f0444.jpeg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...806e05cd0.jpeg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f167a608d.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...386ee8142.jpeg

The bars are alloy from V-O and the GB stem is likely a placeholder. I also have new Schwalbe tires on order as you can see that front tire that I had in the bin is too narrow. Havenít taken it for a test ride yet as I did something wacky with the brake reassembly and now they donít work very well! Iíll figure that out.

The rear dropouts looks kind of different from the usual style as well.

nlerner 01-21-22 09:09 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22382046)
The rear dropouts looks kind of different from the usual style as well.

I wondered about that, too, though they look the same as the '37 Sports I have. I'll try to take some pics of various old Raleighs I have around to do some comparison.

SirMike1983 01-21-22 09:49 AM

Not to distract from the nice old Boston Sports above, but has anyone done a direct comparison of Panaracer Col de La Vie, Michelin World Tour, and Schwalbe Delta Cruiser tires?

I have a Sports with an older pair of Panaracers on it. They're not in bad shape and they ride pretty well. The only thing I don't like is that they totally max out my fender space and I have very little room for tolerance or error in set up. This is a 70s bike so gum/tanwall is the way to go. I'm contemplating a swap to Michelin when the time comes.

I have a late 50s Sports that I put the white wall Delta Cruisers on. They're a huge improvement over the Duro tires I formerly had, though at the time I could not get Michelin World Tour white walls. Thoughts on the Schwalbe vs Michelin?

Salubrious 01-21-22 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22381486)
The bars are alloy from V-O and the GB stem is likely a placeholder. I also have new Schwalbe tires on order as you can see that front tire that I had in the bin is too narrow. Havenít taken it for a test ride yet as I did something wacky with the brake reassembly and now they donít work very well! Iíll figure that out.

I advise taking the brakes apart as an exercise to see how they work. Raleigh brakes are denigrated a lot but if you figure out how they work they are very easy to adjust, one of the better side pull designs out there (I hate that bit where they want to drag on one side of the rim and these are the best brakes at having no worries with that). Here are a few tips:
1) if you can take the brake line out of the sleeve and run WD 40 through the sleeve and chase it with spray lithium grease. Clean the line as best you can and apply a bit of automotive wheel bearing grease to it as a bit of a sheen.
2) Grease the round brake cable fitting in the brake lever! Pay annual attention to this- if the grease gets washed out it can lead to cable failure.
3) adjust the brake travel so the pads are well away from the rim at rest. In this way when you grab the lever it will have some travel before the brakes engage. You'll find that you have far more powerful braking action in this manner, not the least of which is your grip will be more powerful too. Operating the brakes should have a smooth, almost addicting feel.
4) Kool Stop makes pads that slide directly into any shoe holder that has John Bull pads. They even have them in black.
5) do a proper wheel alignment. You'll want to this anyway because old spokes have stretched!

If you get all this right the bike will stop quite well even in the rain.

Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22382194)
Not to distract from the nice old Boston Sports above, but has anyone done a direct comparison of Panaracer Col de La Vie, Michelin World Tour, and Schwalbe Delta Cruiser tires?

The Michelin is probably the fastest tire. The Panaracers have the best ride IME/IMO. The Schwalbe looks the best (IMO, if you have the white ones) and sits between the two. A lot depends on tire pressure; you probably know to run your front tire a bit lower than the rear. I'm a bit heavier so I tend to run the rear tire just below recommended maximum and the front about 20% lower. The ride of the Panaracers is addicting, but IME they are more likely to puncture or else I've just had bad luck.

nlerner 01-21-22 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 22382308)
I advise taking the brakes apart as an exercise to see how they work. Raleigh brakes are denigrated a lot but if you figure out how they work they are very easy to adjust, one of the better side pull designs out there (I hate that bit where they want to drag on one side of the rim and these are the best brakes at having no worries with that). Here are a few tips:

Thanks for those tips! Front and back actually have different issues (though I didn't pay attention to their reach when I removed them for cleaning; I guess that rear has the longer reach and my original pic confirms): Rear binds up. I've lubricated the brake bolt and played around with the tension between tightening/loosening the brake bolt and tightening/loosening the brake bolt nut, but something still isn't right. It's possible I reversed front and rear springs, but they seem to be sitting in the right spots. The front springs open and closed just fine, but now the pads are too close to the rim! It's possible I switched front and rear pad when reassembling, but they look equally worn to me (which is actually not worn at all). That's an odd one. I'm assuming the calipers just aren't opening as wide as they should.

When new tires arrive and I have a reason to pull the wheels, I'll also pull both brakes and see if I can figure out what's going on. Advice always appreciated!

gster 01-21-22 01:22 PM

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...93e865cb2.jpeg
Very impressive/quick turnaround on this one.
It cleaned up real good!


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