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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

robertob 06-27-11 04:17 PM

Maybe we can get the Red Barn guy to make some 26-inch racks:

http://redbarnbike.blogspot.com/p/gallery.html

I bought a parts bike with a Presstube Minor rack, color keyed to the bike no less.

auchencrow 06-30-11 05:56 PM

These English 3-speeds drive me crazy sometimes.

Case in point: Trying to set up the brakes on my old Raleigh here: I had to replace the housings because they were tostados, and of course that leaves me without any double ended brake cables.

So - I've been installing knarps (shown, red arrow) and with the help of the cable guides from an old Prestige shifter so they at least stay put. . .
However, the caliper arms are an absolute ordeal to center, in part because securing the knarp requires a 4th and a 5th hand tool. :twitchy:

Not only that, but I worry about the knarp loosening up and slipping off when I need it one day.

How DO YOU compensate for the lack of double-ended brake cables on these old Raleighs?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...938/Knarp-.jpg

noglider 06-30-11 08:56 PM

I don't know about that, because I haven't had to do that in ages. But you should be using the hammer-and-punch technique for centering the brakes. It works. Bang on the spring that's too strong. Most of the time, you're not bending and weakening the spring; you're just turning the centerbolt.

auchencrow 06-30-11 09:24 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 12864232)
I don't know about that, because I haven't had to do that in ages. But you should be using the hammer-and-punch technique for centering the brakes. It works. Bang on the spring that's too strong. Most of the time, you're not bending and weakening the spring; you're just turning the centerbolt.

-Thanks Tom - I whacked it good, and it centered pretty well.
(I've not always been successful with that method (e.g., Weinmann 605's) -but these old Raleigh calipers took to it well.)

- I still have reservations about using the knarps though, but I don't know what else to do. I wish there was sort of cable end that I could just squeeze onto the cable using my vise.

- Or something!

Sixty Fiver 06-30-11 10:53 PM


Originally Posted by auchencrow (Post 12863413)
These English 3-speeds drive me crazy sometimes.

Case in point: Trying to set up the brakes on my old Raleigh here: I had to replace the housings because they were tostados, and of course that leaves me without any double ended brake cables.

So - I've been installing knarps (shown, red arrow) and with the help of the cable guides from an old Prestige shifter so they at least stay put. . .
However, the caliper arms are an absolute ordeal to center, in part because securing the knarp requires a 4th and a 5th hand tool. :twitchy:

Not only that, but I worry about the knarp loosening up and slipping off when I need it one day.

How DO YOU compensate for the lack of double-ended brake cables on these old Raleighs?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...938/Knarp-.jpg

Sounds like I need to fabricate some cable ends... :)

Mike Mills 07-01-11 01:18 AM


Originally Posted by auchencrow (Post 12864350)
I wish there was sort of cable end that I could just squeeze onto the cable using my vise.

You can buy swaged fittings for cables. They come in a very wide variety of sizes. The tool to swage them onto the cable is inexpensive and easy to use - fool proof, too. The tool is two bars of steel with appropriately sized cutouts. You put the fitting on the cable. Put the fitting in the tool. Then, tighten the two bolts until the tool halves touch and don't stop until they do. DONE! It's secure and looks professional.

Home Depot, OSH, Lowe's, all decent hardware stores have these. You may have to ask, though, as not many people seem to know about them.

auchencrow 07-01-11 01:20 PM


Originally Posted by Mike Mills (Post 12864884)
You can buy swaged fittings for cables. They come in a very wide variety of sizes. The tool to swage them onto the cable is inexpensive and easy to use - fool proof, too. The tool is two bars of steel with appropriately sized cutouts. You put the fitting on the cable. Put the fitting in the tool. Then, tighten the two bolts until the tool halves touch and don't stop until they do. DONE! It's secure and looks professional.

Home Depot, OSH, Lowe's, all decent hardware stores have these. You may have to ask, though, as not many people seem to know about them.

Mike -
I was dissatisfied with the staying power of the knarps for my old Raleigh brakes, so I am going with your direction.
(It's not so cheap though - My local hdwe had nothing, and Lowes had only the big 18" HK-Porter style, so I bought it.)

- Built up the front brake and it works like gangbusters.
My other choices would have been newer non authentic calipers, or faulty brakes - both costlier in the long run.

I'll do the rear caliper after I get done rebuilding the rear hub and lacing a new rim on it.

Mike Mills 07-01-11 03:17 PM

Mine is a #2 Swage-It. It's about 6" long. I don't recall the price but it was about $10 to $20.

http://www.swage-ittools.com/Welcome...apeimage_1.jpg

It's a tiny picture but here's a link to the web site.

http://www.swage-ittools.com/Welcome.html

auchencrow 07-02-11 06:07 AM


Originally Posted by Mike Mills (Post 12867902)
Mine is a #2 Swage-It. It's about 6" long. I don't recall the price but it was about $10 to $20.

http://www.swage-ittools.com/Welcome...apeimage_1.jpg

It's a tiny picture but here's a link to the web site.

http://www.swage-ittools.com/Welcome.html

Mike -
I asked about a tool like yours at Lowes, Home Depot and my local Ace hardware to no avail.

- So I bought a chintzy $30 copy (below) of an HK Porter swaging tool from Lowes.

It's a crappy quality, 18" Chinese-made tool, but it is good enough to swage a .060" cable end. [URL="http://weldwarehouse.securesites.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?::1:WLDWH:1:number=0190NSL"]


http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...0a5791_400.jpg

nlerner 07-02-11 06:15 AM


Originally Posted by auchencrow (Post 12863413)
How DO YOU compensate for the lack of double-ended brake cables on these old Raleighs?
]

Well, those double-ended cables do pop up on eBay (I have some spare rears with white housing if you're interested; PM me). The other solution is to swap out that caliper arm for one of the ones that has a standard cable anchor. I think I have a couple of those, too!

Neal

auchencrow 07-02-11 06:22 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 12870183)
Well, those double-ended cables do pop up on eBay (I have some spare rears with white housing if you're interested; PM me). The other solution is to swap out that caliper arm for one of the ones that has a standard cable anchor. I think I have a couple of those, too!

Neal

Thanks very much, Neal, but too late!

I already did the up-fit, and the swaged end (in combination with the cable guides from the broken Simplex shifter) is really secure - even more so than a modern caliper.

PS - I don't think there is a way to fit a standard cable anchor onto these old Raleigh caliper arms anyway.
- It's just a hook (see pic above).

nlerner 07-02-11 06:29 AM


Originally Posted by auchencrow (Post 12870193)
PS - I don't think there is a way to fit a standard cable anchor onto these old Raleigh caliper arms anyway.
- It's just a hook (see pic above).

What I was referring to was swapping out that arm for one that does have a standard cable anchor. It was a pretty standard swap back in the day, and I've seen those standard arms in boxes of 10!

Neal

Onegin 07-04-11 02:45 AM


Originally Posted by robertob (Post 12847785)
Maybe we can get the Red Barn guy to make some 26-inch racks:

http://redbarnbike.blogspot.com/p/gallery.html

I bought a parts bike with a Presstube Minor rack, color keyed to the bike no less.



I believe he has the ability to make the racks completely custom. I have the roadster rack for my DL-1 and absolutely love it.

Speaking of the DL-1, in response to the earlier poster was asking for opinions on it, I would have to concur with those who gave it such high praise - it is, hands down, my favorite bike to ride and I have ridden various other Raleigh 3-speeds. Slap the Delta Cruisers on the cushy 28" wheels and you barely feel the bumps on the road as you float over them!

The downside to the bike (if it can be considered a legitimate one) is that I live in a tiny, 1 bedroom apartment and often times it feels like sharing the place with 2 bikes is a bit overwhelming. Fortunately, the bike blends right into the decor, no? ;)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/493/dscn0048y.jpg

noglider 07-05-11 05:10 PM

My Rudge:

See thread here

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-J...2/IMG_0289.JPG

djkashuba 07-05-11 05:37 PM


Originally Posted by Onegin (Post 12877106)
I believe he has the ability to make the racks completely custom. I have the roadster rack for my DL-1 and absolutely love it.

Speaking of the DL-1, in response to the earlier poster was asking for opinions on it, I would have to concur with those who gave it such high praise - it is, hands down, my favorite bike to ride and I have ridden various other Raleigh 3-speeds. Slap the Delta Cruisers on the cushy 28" wheels and you barely feel the bumps on the road as you float over them!

The downside to the bike (if it can be considered a legitimate one) is that I live in a tiny, 1 bedroom apartment and often times it feels like sharing the place with 2 bikes is a bit overwhelming. Fortunately, the bike blends right into the decor, no? ;)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/493/dscn0048y.jpg

Could you post a photograph of the rack on your bike? I have only seen a photograph of the Red Barn rack on a loop frame. I am concerned that it may ride too high attached to the seat stay/ seat tube intersection on a "men's" 24" DL-1. Thanks!

-D

Sixty Fiver 07-05-11 06:07 PM

I will be out at the shop this weekend and have been thinking of fabricating a rack styled like the old Peugeot steel racks for the Sports... the Peugeot rack works with a little re-fitting and fabrication and it would be nice to have a rack that was made to fit.

Stay tuned...

kingsting 07-05-11 07:53 PM

My latest addition:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...g/IMG_0260.jpg

I found it in the trash on the way home from work. Of course I had to "rescue" it. :rolleyes:

At first it appeared to be a regular Sports but then I saw the plain straight side rims, plastic Brooks saddle, and oddball tires. Then I noticed this:
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...g/IMG_0261.jpg

Why can't I ever find a nice normal Raleigh? They all have to be unusual in some way. I wonder how this one found it's way over here. I thought most US Raleighs of this era (1972) were from Nottingham.

Amesja 07-05-11 08:12 PM

I thought both the Malaysian and Taiwan Raleighs were absent the Heron Chainwheel.

Looks like a nice bike though. The lugwork on the BB in that picture is superior to the crap they were putting out from the Nottingham plant in '72.

cazoo 07-05-11 08:34 PM

Is there a big difference in quality with the Malaysian made Raleighs? I just checked on my '72 Raleigh Sports and I've got that same sticker on mine. :(

Amesja 07-05-11 08:45 PM

I use a cut-down spoke nipple above the knarp which does an excellent job of replicating the pear-shaped end of the double-ended cable. It's not going to come out of the caliper but will still pop out when you want it to like the original double-ended cable (like when you want to take it out to get the tire off without deflating it.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T...720/Brakes.jpg

I wouldn't worry about the knarp slipping any more than a regular screw-down cable stop on a caliper brake or center-pull. It's just a screw squishing down on the cable just like it is a screw squishing down on a cable on almost every other type of bicycle brake. I've used knarps on motorcycles and never had an issue. It's not going to slip.

AL NZ 07-06-11 05:44 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I bought a '55 Raleigh 26" roadster with full trim and stainless rims last year in the UK. I brought it back to NZ. It was definitely export quality at age 55 years.
I was very lucky that it still had the correct, and presumably original, colour-coded green cable housings and double-ended brakes cables, which are working fine.
I have since tried to find a source of NOS cables or reproduction without any joy.
There's gotta be a niche there for some boutique maker. We all want the proper cables!
Anyone listening or intereshttp://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=209444ted?

Fenway 07-06-11 06:42 AM

Don't hold your breath. We are still hoping that someone will offer new 26 TPI headsets.:cry:

auchencrow 07-06-11 08:10 AM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12885534)
I use a cut-down spoke nipple above the knarp which does an excellent job of replicating the pear-shaped end of the double-ended cable. It's not going to come out of the caliper but will still pop out when you want it to like the original double-ended cable (like when you want to take it out to get the tire off without deflating it. .....

Amesja - Yours is the most excellent suggestion for using a spoke nipple as a guide with these old Raleigh Calipers. :thumb:

I just couldn't get comfortable with the screw on knarps thoughg, so I bought a swaging tool. (as below)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ow-1938016.jpg

Amesja 07-06-11 08:20 AM

Black Heron Restorations might be looking into the purchase of a swaging tool and producing double-sided cables for sale on the website.

The original cables also employ a washer as well as the pear-shaped swage. I put a washer in between the shortened nipple and the knarp of my own cable eventually (after that pic above was taken) and feel that it is much more stable than just the knarp itself. The knarp seemed to want to kink a little sometimes when it was not totally square with the notch in the caliper. The washer and the spoke nipple together do an excellent job of stabilizing the cable "end" above the knarp.

mkeller234 07-06-11 08:34 AM


Originally Posted by cazoo (Post 12885487)
Is there a big difference in quality with the Malaysian made Raleighs? I just checked on my '72 Raleigh Sports and I've got that same sticker on mine. :(

No, not really. I had one of the Malaysian Raleigh Sports, it lacked a few accessories but otherwise was nearly identical. The Malaysian Raleigh was much nicer than an AMF Hercules and a Raleigh built Phillips that I owned.

The differences are small: No Heron lamp bracket, no pump pegs, vinyl brooks and I think different rims.

Mine:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5071/...036ee095_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5279/...c97a2128_b.jpg


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