Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

clubman 11-23-21 11:55 AM

I did that once for our bakery...without the clock. The bottom chairing, the chain and cog are all 3/16" gauge.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b566e8ab34.jpg

thumpism 11-23-21 04:20 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 22317642)
Where do they get the clock mechanisms? I could make up a clock for my shop.

I got one at Woodcraft.

Vintage Schwinn 11-24-21 01:30 AM

Walmart stores also carry one clock mechanism kit ON THE CRAFTS aisle which is usually next to -or- on the other side of the Sewing aisle(you know, thread, needles, scissors, pins, buttons, fasteners, velcro, etc). You may however wish to study the many different ones available on ebay & amazon etc, because although all of them are pretty reliable and accurate as any AA battery clock mechanism, you might want a particular version BECAUSE of the LOOK/style of the clock HANDS. That right look of the HANDS of the Clock might just make the difference between a good looking Sprocket Clock and a great looking Sprocket Clock. I would imagine that some vendor/suppliers also sell individually the various styles/colors, etc of interchangeable Clock Hands to fit most all of these typical generic AA battery clock mechanisms.
You certainly could even scour GOODWILL for something to use as a Donor clock . As FBOAT & thumpism already mentioned, MICHAELS & HOBBY LOBBY & WOODCRAFT have plenty of these.

mitchito 11-28-21 06:13 PM

This bike is still available in NYC. I just don't have space for it. Can't go wrong for $20 can you? I may still go up and grab it Tuesday if no one else wants it. Just have to endure the screaming from the trouble and strife.

https://newyork.craigslist.org/brx/b...404623558.html

jkrug 11-28-21 08:58 PM

Have now worked on three cottered three-speeds and the Bikesmith cotter pin tool has saved all three. Thanks to all who recommended it and to Mark for providing such a beautifully finished and efficient too. I will no longer pass up a good bike with a cottered crank.

jkrug 11-30-21 03:58 PM

Found a rider for the restored grey '73 Sports.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c9ab6c290d.jpg
Before: Thought the bike was brown...Stripped it down completely for the rebuild.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fa8a8deff.jpeg
Original paint cleaned up nicely with Maguire's rubbing compound and then some wax. Mostly original parts and it runs great.

Greg R 11-30-21 04:47 PM


someone will really be pissed about that wasted Rudge crankarm.
In typewriter world we call them "key choppers". Any typewriter with the nickel rims on keys have their keys chopped for jewelry., and other parts go to steampunk artsy whatevers.

Anybody here a fan of WD-40? Gawd that stuff can be awful. I picked up a Superbe last week and tore down the SA 3 spd. I think the last 10 years of it's life WD-40 was used in the lube hole. Once it dries, it is very tough to remove.

SirMike1983 12-01-21 09:30 AM

WD-40 is not bad for cleaning, displacing water, or preventing light rust in some applications. It can be used as a penetrating oil for loosening rusted parts, but there are better products for that use.

It is not a substantial enough lubricant, though there's a segment of people who insist that it can substitute for oil or grease. This is a corner that should not be cut. A good quality lithium grease and good quality light oil should be on-hand in the garage or shop as lubricants. I think part of it is people who don't know any better just grab a can of WD-40 and use it for everything sometimes.

[Don't get me started on key choppers... bad business]

Salubrious 12-01-21 11:16 AM

If I get in a project and the hub isn't shifting right, I'll spray a bunch of WD40 in it and take it for a short ride. Usually its shifting within a couple of blocks. Then I put it on the stand, rotate the oil port down, and spray more in while catching what comes out so it doesn't make a mess. Once its done draining I use automatic transmission fluid as a lubricant and take another ride- about ten miles or so. Then I change out the oil and again and use a bit of light gear lube like I use for the Rohloff.

WD40 is a tool and not a lubricant. I prefer to use Kroil if I have a stuck bolt, seatpost or stem, but it smells terrible so I have to use it outside and make sure everything is cleaned of it before bringing the parts back inside. But for freeing stuff that's stuck its the best I've encountered.

clubman 12-01-21 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by Greg R (Post 22324898)
In typewriter world we call them "key choppers". Any typewriter with the nickel rims on keys have their keys chopped for jewelry.

Full name Drew Gutenberg.

Super.bee 12-02-21 10:08 AM

For sale in/ near Pittsburgh
 
A ladies, maybe 23"? Brown. And a blue LTD, small. Both look ridable.

Not mine:

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/bi...414807367.html
https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/bi...406560697.html

Greg R 12-02-21 11:34 AM


but it smells terrible
Really? I like it, kinda like wintergreen. I put a dab in the aftershave.

thumpism 12-02-21 06:30 PM


Originally Posted by Super.bee (Post 22326602)

A 23 looks taller with its seat cluster level with the top of the head tube. Here's one in TN for $200, too much for this condition.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...20428388259016

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...df&oe=61AD8762

thumpism 12-02-21 06:40 PM

Price drop on this Sturmey 5-speed in VA. Now $160.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...35837557818814

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...a5&oe=61AF2F18

2fat2fly 12-03-21 06:10 AM

I had a neighbor bring me a bike yesterday with the rear wheel locked up tight. She said she was riding and all of a sudden the back wheel locked up, then broke free, then locked up again.
The SA AW hub was locked up tight.
As soon as i put the bike up on the stand I could see something really bad happened. There was a dent in the shell from the inside, and the shift cable was pulled out of the shifter up top.
I removed the cable from the indicator, removed the indicator, and removed the axle nuts. That's when I really realized how bad it was. The axle had twisted on the left side only, spreading the dropouts a bit and wedging the round part of the axle in the frame. I had to take a block of wood and drive the axle down out of the dropout on the left side.
I immediately saw that the left axle threads were twisted almost a quarter turn and the axle had 'threaded' the inside of the dropouts.
I then backed off both bearing cones, and both axle bearings and cones were fine.
I then found that the driver was stuck in the hub. It took a brass mallet to knock it loose.
The bearings, race, and driver were stuck together, the bearings that fell out were black and burnt looking. The right side race was blue and the driver had come color as well and a few chunks out of the bearing race.
I pulled the internals and soon found that the pinion gear was loose on the axle, and half the pin that holds it in place was gone. The gears and the rest of the hub were fine except for one broken left side pawl.
The owner is a big woman, 6ft 5in or so in her 60's. The bike is a ladies Sports.
The hub was well oiled, and there was no real grinding or cutting going on, which made me think it did indeed happen pretty fast. However, I didn't find the missing half of the pinion gear pin, or the missing half of the one pawl.
The driver bearings were about half their normal size and not even close to round and there was a lot of grinding dust in with the bearings and not much lube there, but the bearings were pretty much burned black.

The hub shell was re-usable, I replaced the axle, right bearing race, cone, and all the bearings and its back up and riding. The pinion gear was actually fine too, but rather than mess around with the old gear I just found a used axle for it.

Here's the axle


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...88ffa90763.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...58ef122651.jpg
The entire axle is twisted, not just the end, look at how far the flats are from each other on the other end. I also thought it odd that the sold end of the axle twisted before the hollow end. Both no-turn washers were also destroyed, with the left one broken in half. Since the dropouts were so chewed up, I added an extra no turn washer on the outside as well on the left side. When i thought about it and what had to happen for this to fail this way I figure that both the driver and the pin or pawl had to lock up the internals at the same time. Otherwise, the locked up driver would have just made it a fixed gear but it was locked up completely. I suppose if it didn't lock up, the axle would have kept turning and just eventually snapped.

gster 12-03-21 09:43 PM


Originally Posted by jkrug (Post 22324850)
Found a rider for the restored grey '73 Sports.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c9ab6c290d.jpg
Before: Thought the bike was brown...Stripped it down completely for the rebuild.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fa8a8deff.jpeg
Original paint cleaned up nicely with Maguire's rubbing compound and then some wax. Mostly original parts and it runs great.

Very nice work,

gster 12-03-21 09:55 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22327165)

The throttle shifters are almost worth the price.

gster 12-03-21 09:59 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 22326161)
Full name Drew Gutenberg.

I prefer Steve Gutenberg, from such films as
Police Academy
Other films

dirtman 12-04-21 01:30 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 22328354)
The throttle shifters are almost worth the price.

I've only run across one or two with those shifters over the years, most have been converted to two trigger shifters and a Shimano left belcrank.
I bought three of them for over the summer for $20 along all with the rear hubs missing but with nice chrome bits. I'll probably use the chrome on other bikes but will likely put the one 23" frame model back together as a three speed. S5 hubs have gotten to pricey for my budget these days. Between the hub and original shifters, you could likely double your money on that bike even at their asking price.

dirtman 12-04-21 02:36 AM


Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 22327424)
I had a neighbor bring me a bike yesterday with the rear wheel locked up tight. She said she was riding and all of a sudden the back wheel locked up, then broke free, then locked up again.
The SA AW hub was locked up tight.
As soon as i put the bike up on the stand I could see something really bad happened. There was a dent in the shell from the inside, and the shift cable was pulled out of the shifter up top.
I removed the cable from the indicator, removed the indicator, and removed the axle nuts. That's when I really realized how bad it was. The axle had twisted on the left side only, spreading the dropouts a bit and wedging the round part of the axle in the frame. I had to take a block of wood and drive the axle down out of the dropout on the left side.
I immediately saw that the left axle threads were twisted almost a quarter turn and the axle had 'threaded' the inside of the dropouts.
I then backed off both bearing cones, and both axle bearings and cones were fine.
I then found that the driver was stuck in the hub. It took a brass mallet to knock it loose.
The bearings, race, and driver were stuck together, the bearings that fell out were black and burnt looking. The right side race was blue and the driver had come color as well and a few chunks out of the bearing race.
I pulled the internals and soon found that the pinion gear was loose on the axle, and half the pin that holds it in place was gone. The gears and the rest of the hub were fine except for one broken left side pawl.
The owner is a big woman, 6ft 5in or so in her 60's. The bike is a ladies Sports.
The hub was well oiled, and there was no real grinding or cutting going on, which made me think it did indeed happen pretty fast. However, I didn't find the missing half of the pinion gear pin, or the missing half of the one pawl.
The driver bearings were about half their normal size and not even close to round and there was a lot of grinding dust in with the bearings and not much lube there, but the bearings were pretty much burned black.

The hub shell was re-usable, I replaced the axle, right bearing race, cone, and all the bearings and its back up and riding. The pinion gear was actually fine too, but rather than mess around with the old gear I just found a used axle for it.

Here's the axle


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...88ffa90763.jpg
....
The entire axle is twisted, not just the end, look at how far the flats are from each other on the other end. I also thought it odd that the sold end of the axle twisted before the hollow end. Both no-turn washers were also destroyed, with the left one broken in half. Since the dropouts were so chewed up, I added an extra no turn washer on the outside as well on the left side. When i thought about it and what had to happen for this to fail this way I figure that both the driver and the pin or pawl had to lock up the internals at the same time. Otherwise, the locked up driver would have just made it a fixed gear but it was locked up completely. I suppose if it didn't lock up, the axle would have kept turning and just eventually snapped.

I've had a few broken axles and stripped pinion gears but I've not seen one locked up or twisted like that. All of the hubs that had broken axles that I found were badly abused and run till they just wouldn't go any further. The few stripped pinions were in hubs that were badly worn internally, likely run dry for years.
I could imagine what sort of havoc a loose or protruding pin could do when moving along at speed, especially with a heavier rider

As a kid, I broke an axle on a road bike and the rear end locked up while descending a hill, it wasn't a fun experience

I would suppose with a three speed hub, if something broke or locked up at speed, the forces could be amplified even greater than with a straight axle. If the driver locked up, the effect would be simply a fixed gear situation, but if you lost a set of pawls combined with a loose pin or some shrapnel in the mix, the planetary gears could exert some serious force on the axle as various components stopped turning. I wonder if the planetary gears could create a reverse gear situation if one set of pawls were either engaged or not there in the right combination.
Either way I can imagine the crunching and grinding sounds that had to make as it locked up.

gster 12-04-21 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by dirtman (Post 22328441)
I've had a few broken axles and stripped pinion gears but I've not seen one locked up or twisted like that. All of the hubs that had broken axles that I found were badly abused and run till they just wouldn't go any further. The few stripped pinions were in hubs that were badly worn internally, likely run dry for years.
I could imagine what sort of havoc a loose or protruding pin could do when moving along at speed, especially with a heavier rider

As a kid, I broke an axle on a road bike and the rear end locked up while descending a hill, it wasn't a fun experience

I would suppose with a three speed hub, if something broke or locked up at speed, the forces could be amplified even greater than with a straight axle. If the driver locked up, the effect would be simply a fixed gear situation, but if you lost a set of pawls combined with a loose pin or some shrapnel in the mix, the planetary gears could exert some serious force on the axle as various components stopped turning. I wonder if the planetary gears could create a reverse gear situation if one set of pawls were either engaged or not there in the right combination.
Either way I can imagine the crunching and grinding sounds that had to make as it locked up.

Years ago, I gave an old 3 speed to a young friend. A 1969 CCM Galaxie. I didn't know much about SA hubs at the time and thought he could figure it out.
He complained that it just wouldn't shift so I took it back and swapped him another bike (5 speed deraileur).
Eventually I got around to taking the hub apart to have a look.
The pin was loose and half way out and the axle was quite badly warped.
In any case, the hub was fixed and they bike found a new home.
I might add that the person i originally got the bike from was also quite heavy.....
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a9e4975f19.jpg

SirMike1983 12-04-21 09:18 PM

For the person who wants a little different hub... an AM from 1938. (Not my sale, but if you have to have a pre-war AM... not something that often comes up).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13395460842...wAAOSw4u1hrBtT

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VPEAA...tc/s-l1600.jpg

browngw 12-04-21 10:17 PM

I've just noticed that my English 3 speed inventory is pretty low. The 1971 Robin Hood and the 1956 Royal Nord President with English Brampton hub and shifter have to carry the flag for the time being.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe8a038b14.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b45eaa6685.jpg

dirtman 12-05-21 05:50 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 22328624)
Years ago, I gave an old 3 speed to a young friend. A 1969 CCM Galaxie. I didn't know much about SA hubs at the time and thought he could figure it out.
He complained that it just wouldn't shift so I took it back and swapped him another bike (5 speed deraileur).
Eventually I got around to taking the hub apart to have a look.
The pin was loose and half way out and the axle was quite badly warped.
In any case, the hub was fixed and they bike found a new home.
I might add that the person i originally got the bike from was also quite heavy.....
.....

I'm no lightweight myself, at 6ft 3in tall and just over 325 lbs, I've done my share of damage to bikes but in most cases it wasn't the weight that caused the failure.
On my personal bikes, those that I've either bought new or gone over myself, I've never had a broken axle or any sort of wheel failure. I have however broken a few cranks and crank axles, but never on an English bike.
There are things I don't do, especially on an unknown or cheaper bike. One is stand up and pedal, another is pedal too hard in a too high a gear. Riding over even slight curbs is another thing to avoid, as is being sure the tires are fully inflated.

Most bent axles started out as loose bearings.

Most pinion pins that I've seen are pretty tight, they don't fall out easily but if the axle is stressed or bent, all bets are off. A loose fitting pin could easily be set in place with a hard shot with a center punch.
I think the worst case I saw with an AW hub was one with a broken right bearing cup. The bearings were ground to half their size, the left bearing cone was chipped up and the left bearing race has been pushed through letting the ball bearings to escape inside the hub. It was on a junk wheel from a cleanout I did a while back, there were basically no salvageable parts inside. All bearing surfaces were chewed up, the pinion gears and planet gears were chipped up and worn, and the cage pin holes were wallowed out so bad that even new gears would just lock up. The axle slot was worn unevenly and someone had hammered a large nail into the end of the axle in place of the skewer.
I always figured that if kept properly lubed and adjusted an AW hub should last indefinitely.

markk900 12-05-21 05:57 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 22329237)
I've just noticed that my English 3 speed inventory is pretty low. The 1971 Robin Hood and the 1956 Royal Nord President with English Brampton hub and shifter have to carry the flag for the time being.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe8a038b14.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b45eaa6685.jpg

Its not quantity its quality that counts.....

gster 12-05-21 08:54 AM

O.T. Oddball
Bridgestone Picnica....
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18f9832331.jpg
https://bootiebike.com/bridgestone/bridgestone.htm

SirMike1983 12-07-21 01:51 PM

In the midst of re-building this very clean 1964 Schwinn Traveler 3-speed. I've taken it down to the frame, cleaned, lubed, and am now re-assembling.

https://thecabe.com/forum/attachment...4-jpg.1521862/

The stainless steel fenders on this one are in very nice shape. They usually turn up all scratched and dented.

https://thecabe.com/forum/attachment...0-jpg.1521863/

A before and after type shot of the Weinmann 810 "Schwinn Approved" brake calipers:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ygFgNAeRX...120_195259.jpg

The transfers are all in pretty good shape on this bike. The seat tube transfer usually turns up damaged or badly discolored on these, but this one is pretty good after some light cleaning.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-moFwwZHSC...127_202112.jpg

The wheelset has a 1964 Sturmey AW rear and Schwinn hourglass front hubs. Rims are Schwinn S5 (Westrick shape). Spokes are Union double-butted steel. The bearings and bearing surfaces all are in good shape.

oldspokes 12-09-21 12:38 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22332216)
In the midst of re-building this very clean 1964 Schwinn Traveler 3-speed. I've taken it down to the frame, cleaned, lubed, and am now re-assembling.

https://thecabe.com/forum/attachment...4-jpg.1521862/

The stainless steel fenders on this one are in very nice shape. They usually turn up all scratched and dented.

https://thecabe.com/forum/attachment...0-jpg.1521863/

A before and after type shot of the Weinmann 810 "Schwinn Approved" brake calipers:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ygFgNAeRX...120_195259.jpg

The transfers are all in pretty good shape on this bike. The seat tube transfer usually turns up damaged or badly discolored on these, but this one is pretty good after some light cleaning.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-moFwwZHSC...127_202112.jpg

The wheelset has a 1964 Sturmey AW rear and Schwinn hourglass front hubs. Rims are Schwinn S5 (Westrick shape). Spokes are Union double-butted steel. The bearings and bearing surfaces all are in good shape.

That thing is super clean!
I have a '62 Traveler hanging in the basement in the taller frame. Its fenders are trashed and the original starburst headbadge is chipped. Its biggest fault is that the threads on the fork are a bit sketchy, when I backed off the lock nut the cone popped right off. The threads on the fork are very shallow, either stripped or miss-cut. Someone before me had wrapped the threads with tape and forced the top nut down over it all.

I've been searching for a good set of fenders and a black fork for 25 years or so. I have a 65 in green with a badly rusted out frame that may donate the forks if I want to paint a set of forks. A cheap set of Wald fenders would get it going and looking decent again but I hate not using all original parts. The original fenders are both rusted on the inside, the stays are mangled, and there are thousands of dents. The front fender looks like it got sucked up into the tire at one point, straightened back out.
The wheels are near mint though, with a vintage set of Goodyear tires that are in really nice shape.
The '62' stamped fenders that came with mine don't have the crested front fender, just plain fenders.
I actually bought the bike while on vacation years ago and used it as it was for a week there, then took it apart, packed it in the car and came home with it. After I took it apart, I couldn't believe it rode as good as it did. The bearings were completely dry, the cables were rusted, and the brake pads were petrified. Its been apart in a few boxes since around 1996.

jkrug 12-09-21 12:51 AM

Not an English bike, but this was my first taste of a Sturmey Archer equipped bike. This Schwinn Breeze was in a box in pieces when I got it--previous owner had taken it apart with his son to repaint the frame and--20 years later--hadn't gotten around to it. He assured me all the parts were there and mostly they were. Took some polish to the paint and decided to leave it original. Although the painted lettering has worn, it came out pretty well, and after lubrication and some replaced cables and a tire it made a nice rider. Its new owner is very pleased with it.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d5031553e.jpeg
Almost entirely original, only a tube, tire, brake cables, and cable housings were replaced.

SirMike1983 12-09-21 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by jkrug (Post 22334018)
Not an English bike, but this was my first taste of a Sturmey Archer equipped bike. This Schwinn Breeze was in a box in pieces when I got it--previous owner had taken it apart with his son to repaint the frame and--20 years later--hadn't gotten around to it. He assured me all the parts were there and mostly they were. Took some polish to the paint and decided to leave it original. Although the painted lettering has worn, it came out pretty well, and after lubrication and some replaced cables and a tire it made a nice rider. Its new owner is very pleased with it.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d5031553e.jpeg
Almost entirely original, only a tube, tire, brake cables, and cable housings were replaced.


I think it's fair to place the Schwinn three speeds in with the British ones as being part of the same family of bikes. They have a common lineage.

I have never seen it confirmed by any Schwinn writing, but I have a strong suspicion that when Schwinn started making these three speed utility bikes in the late 1930s, they copied a Birmingham Hercules or BSA sports/light roadster as a template. Schwinn advertised its early three speeds as something for adult riders and being a choice for serious use as an alternative to English bikes. A customer could also custom order a bike and specify which American-style features they wanted (e.g., one-piece crank, coaster brake, etc.) and which British-style ones (e.g., cottered cranks, Sturmey hub, caliper brakes). In the pre-WWII era, Hercules and BSA (Hercules in particular) were actively exporting bikes and parts to the USA.

The slack frame angles of the Schwinn 3-speeds also had a strong resemblance to the pre-war Hercules and Phillips sports roadsters, though the Schwinn was of different frame joining construction. Schwinn initially opted for the 26x1.375 (599mm) wheels, but later went to the 597mm bead seat wheels. The English preferred the 26x1-3/8 (590mm) wheel. [If you think the choice today in tires for 590mm is limited, well 597 and 599 are even worse.]

Over time, the Schwinn-made bikes diverged from the English more. The later Schwinn three speeds from the mid-1950s and onward, which are the ones that usually show up (most are 1960s or 70s) converted gradually to parts that Schwinn could source from vendors - Weinmann 810 brakes, Weinmann brake levers, Union pedals and chains, etc.

But the two lines of bikes had both emerged from the rise in the 1930s of the British "light roadster" 26 inch wheels, with cable/caliper brakes, and a three speed AW hub.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:59 AM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.