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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

1989Pre 09-30-23 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by PhilFo (Post 23027835)
click on the link, get to the error page, go to the URL then remove the 's' after https.

"https" did not show in the address bar when I clicked on the link.

1989Pre 09-30-23 03:12 PM

A recent local finding:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c4241bfcb1.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c2d620e26.jpg

Ged117 09-30-23 05:46 PM

Square taper conversion if my 1960s Triumph - success
 
Hi folks, I know a few around here have thought about JIS conversion of their old three-speed, and since I've just finished following Sheldon's way, I thought it was worth a report.

Italian BB spindle, 71mm, 6mm ball bearings, and 113mm spindle length for my particular crank worked a treat - though its close. Chain line is reasonable but not perfect, considering its hard to get the hub sprocket out very far. For an around-town lock it at the pub in the rain kind of three-speed, I'll call it job done. I had a Surly chainring laying in my parts bin and it looks great. 20t sprocket on the 1953 AW (I rebuilt it a few months ago, its nice to hear it tick along). 1975 GH6 hub still makes the electron juice. This bike is a bitsa-this, bitsa-that. Flat handlebars are 1940s French unit off of eBay. Chainguard won't fit as intended, so it'll have to do. Bar tape off of my Schwinn Voyageur and clear shellac for longevity.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...53f8d16f_h.jpgPXL_20230930_221445008
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6cade580_h.jpgPXL_20230930_221503203
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...df5aefd8_h.jpgPXL_20230930_221516273

A few remaining pieces - replace the old pedals I grabbed off the corpse of a '59 Raleigh Canadian, and replace the previous owner's bad wiring job for the lamps. They work decently well with LED bulbs from Nicelite. I also have a decent pair of Raleigh fenders (again sourced from the '59), that I've painted with rustoleum white after using evaporust on them - I may try and match the burgundy colour of the Triumph and create a white 'blaze' on the rear fender, and scratch up a period reflector for the fender.

The 1980 S5.1 hub this bike came to me with is going to be rebuilt this winter to correct a first-gear slip.

Motogoosie 09-30-23 07:43 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 10434457)
.

And once again, I have an English 3 speed... that I can actually ride...


Originally Posted by foozle (Post 10434581)
Beautiful Bike. I have rebuilt a '71 Schwinn World Traveler into a touring single speed. All cleaned up well and the new stuff went together well. Except the fenders were a lot of work. I also had large tires 700x35's Yours look tight as well. Any trouble aligning the fenders?

Lovely bike & post! Thatís the kind of bike I daydream about riding on a Sunday.

I have a beautiful 1960s Dawes Realmrider frameset that I would love to build up authentically. The only concession to modernity Iím thinking about is a rim with a more common BSD than the 26 x 1 1/4 wheel sets the frame was designed for Ö like 700 x 32 with short reach sidepulls. Iíd also like to source some 120mm 3-5 speed internal hub with a matching front end dynamo hub.

gster 10-04-23 09:21 AM

1961 Superbe Steering Issue
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dfa1465c49.jpg
I've had this one for a number of years and it tends to "wander" when riding.
I think one of the problems with the locking fork is that people did try to steal these bikes, reefing on the handle bars and twisting
the fork which seemed to be the case with this one.
Looking straight down from the top you could see the alignment was off.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1b02ba09f6.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e2ce9b1f36.jpg
I locked the forks in the deck and reefed on them with a piece of rebar with some success.
However, after re assembly it still wanders...
Question- does a fork from a Ladies' bike fit the 23" men's bike?
I can probably find one easier than a men's.

gster 10-04-23 09:50 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 23033602)
1961 Superbe Steering Issue
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dfa1465c49.jpg
I've had this one for a number of years and it tends to "wander" when riding.
I think one of the problems with the locking fork is that people did try to steal these bikes, reefing on the handle bars and twisting
the fork which seemed to be the case with this one.
Looking straight down from the top you could see the alignment was off.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1b02ba09f6.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e2ce9b1f36.jpg
I locked the forks in the deck and reefed on them with a piece of rebar with some success.
However, after re assembly it still wanders...
Question- does a fork from a Ladies' bike fit the 23" men's bike?
I can probably find one easier than a men's.

Follow up
I gave another reef with the rebar and seems to be much better, not perfect but better.

SkinGriz 10-04-23 09:52 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 23033602)
1961 Superbe Steering Issue
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dfa1465c49.jpg
I've had this one for a number of years and it tends to "wander" when riding.
I think one of the problems with the locking fork is that people did try to steal these bikes, reefing on the handle bars and twisting
the fork which seemed to be the case with this one.
Looking straight down from the top you could see the alignment was off.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1b02ba09f6.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e2ce9b1f36.jpg
I locked the forks in the deck and reefed on them with a piece of rebar with some success.
However, after re assembly it still wanders...
Question- does a fork from a Ladies' bike fit the 23" men's bike?
I can probably find one easier than a men's.

Iíve always wondered if a fork steerer could be chopped, a 7/8 section of handlebar slipped inside acting as both alignment and weld back up bar, and another section of steerer slipped on top, lengthening the fork?

Or converting a fork to thread less.

swampyankee2 10-04-23 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by tcs (Post 23009625)

This sounds like just the thing to get me out of my slump, and get some miles on the Sports as well. My only problem is, I live near the top of Chopmist Hill so it's away and down in any direction, and a long uphill slog back. Not suitable for a 3 speed. But I just mapped it out and if I trucked my bike down near the village I could offload and do a relatively level ride thru town and back. I could even stop for a beverage at the pub on the way by :beer:

Anyone else accepting this challenge?

Salubrious 10-05-23 12:25 PM


Originally Posted by swampyankee2 (Post 23033787)
This sounds like just the thing to get me out of my slump, and get some miles on the Sports as well. My only problem is, I live near the top of Chopmist Hill so it's away and down in any direction, and a long uphill slog back. Not suitable for a 3 speed. But I just mapped it out and if I trucked my bike down near the village I could offload and do a relatively level ride thru town and back. I could even stop for a beverage at the pub on the way by :beer:

Anyone else accepting this challenge?

I did.
You might consider getting a 4-speed hub; you should be able to climb most any hill with that!

swampyankee2 10-05-23 12:45 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 23034719)
I did.
You might consider getting a 4-speed hub; you should be able to climb most any hill with that!

I was inspired enough to take the Sports up the street nearer the top of the hill and back, probably 2 miles round trip. A sort of shakedown cruise since I haven't touched it since I test-riding after my oily rag resto. The annual Art Festival is in the village this weekend, which will prevent me from doing the downtown loop I had mapped. Bu I might be able to get away to a different location on Sunday or Monday to kick start my participation in the challenge.

clubman 10-05-23 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by SkinGriz (Post 23033625)
I’ve always wondered if a fork steerer could be chopped, a 7/8 section of handlebar slipped inside acting as both alignment and weld back up bar, and another section of steerer slipped on top, lengthening the fork?

Or converting a fork to thread less.

It's a replacement job. A millwright friend of mine did this with a hardtail. It involved removing the old steerer and replacing with a longer one using a hydraulic press. Highly skilled, he was.

dirtman 10-09-23 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 23033602)
1961 Superbe Steering Issue
<pic>
I've had this one for a number of years and it tends to "wander" when riding.
I think one of the problems with the locking fork is that people did try to steal these bikes, reefing on the handle bars and twisting
the fork which seemed to be the case with this one.
Looking straight down from the top you could see the alignment was off.
<pic>
<pic>
I locked the forks in the deck and reefed on them with a piece of rebar with some success.
However, after re assembly it still wanders...
Question- does a fork from a Ladies' bike fit the 23" men's bike?
I can probably find one easier than a men's.

I used a fork from a 1972 ladies model, that measured 21" c-t, on a 22" 1970 man's Sports
and believe that an earlier 21" ladies fork is nearly the same steer tube length as a 23" men's frame, but it may differ by year.
There are also universal replacement forks but most I've seen have 24tpi and were meant for the newer models after 1975 or so. Those were cut to fit but you need to find a new headset.

The 72 Ladies Sports had an obvious shorter head tube than does the 1967 ladies sprite I took the fork for to fix the 1970 mens 23" model.
The ladies fork was a tad bit longer, I just added an extra tabbed washer but could have just as well cut off a few threads.

A 1966 ladies Sprite, and a 1959 ladies sports I have here both have 7" head tubes and 8 1/16" fork steer tubes measured from the bottom of the crown race to the top of the tube.
I have a men's 21" 1960 with a 4 5/8" head tube and a 5 3/4" fork steer tube.
and a 1964 men's 23" Sports with a 6 3/4" head tube and a 7 7/8" steer tube.
I have a Malaysia made ladies Sports here in a 21" frame that has a 6 5/8" head tube and a 7 3/4" steer tube fork.
Year and frame size seems to matter. The ladies frames with the shorter headtube sit lower and shorter then those with the longer headtube buy quite a bit, there's an obvious difference in ride height. As a big man, I can ride the 21" ladies bikes with the 7" head tube, but not those with the shorter head tubes. I think the changes were made in the early 70's when the two ladies models were given very different geometries than before.
I always wondered what drove them to have so many variations but only two advertised ladies frame sizes.
I've also run into 19" ladies frames but don't recall seeing them in any brochure I've had.

There was an eBay seller who had some chrome replacement Royal Enfield branded tubular crown forks with 8 1/8" steer tubes listed but he wanted $75 each for them, I believe they were 24tpi threaded. I haven't seen them in a while though but he had them listed last spring and had had them in the past. They looked identical to a Raleigh fork in the pics. The replacement forks I saw at one shop a couple year ago were tubular crown but had "TANGE" engraved on the steer tube.

If that fork has a good steer tube and no kinks, anyone with a good fork jig should be able to re-align it properly. (Such as a Park FCG-1)
I got lucky a few years ago and stumbled on one at a local flea market for cheap, it was still in the box and likely never used.

Sedgemop 10-09-23 08:49 AM

Somebody rescue this poor guy (not the dog).

Bike $50 Lake Geneva, WI


Facebook WI Raleigh

Vintage bike for sale needs tuning taking offers

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...Fg&oe=652825DF
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...wg&oe=65294AF2
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Nw&oe=65283990

gster 10-09-23 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by dirtman (Post 23037805)
I used a fork from a 1972 ladies model, that measured 21" c-t, on a 22" 1970 man's Sports
and believe that an earlier 21" ladies fork is nearly the same steer tube length as a 23" men's frame, but it may differ by year.
There are also universal replacement forks but most I've seen have 24tpi and were meant for the newer models after 1975 or so. Those were cut to fit but you need to find a new headset.

The 72 Ladies Sports had an obvious shorter head tube than does the 1967 ladies sprite I took the fork for to fix the 1970 mens 23" model.
The ladies fork was a tad bit longer, I just added an extra tabbed washer but could have just as well cut off a few threads.

A 1966 ladies Sprite, and a 1959 ladies sports I have here both have 7" head tubes and 8 1/16" fork steer tubes measured from the bottom of the crown race to the top of the tube.
I have a men's 21" 1960 with a 4 5/8" head tube and a 5 3/4" fork steer tube.
and a 1964 men's 23" Sports with a 6 3/4" head tube and a 7 7/8" steer tube.
I have a Malaysia made ladies Sports here in a 21" frame that has a 6 5/8" head tube and a 7 3/4" steer tube fork.
Year and frame size seems to matter. The ladies frames with the shorter headtube sit lower and shorter then those with the longer headtube buy quite a bit, there's an obvious difference in ride height. As a big man, I can ride the 21" ladies bikes with the 7" head tube, but not those with the shorter head tubes. I think the changes were made in the early 70's when the two ladies models were given very different geometries than before.
I always wondered what drove them to have so many variations but only two advertised ladies frame sizes.
I've also run into 19" ladies frames but don't recall seeing them in any brochure I've had.

There was an eBay seller who had some chrome replacement Royal Enfield branded tubular crown forks with 8 1/8" steer tubes listed but he wanted $75 each for them, I believe they were 24tpi threaded. I haven't seen them in a while though but he had them listed last spring and had had them in the past. They looked identical to a Raleigh fork in the pics. The replacement forks I saw at one shop a couple year ago were tubular crown but had "TANGE" engraved on the steer tube.

If that fork has a good steer tube and no kinks, anyone with a good fork jig should be able to re-align it properly. (Such as a Park FCG-1)
I got lucky a few years ago and stumbled on one at a local flea market for cheap, it was still in the box and likely never used.

Thanks for the info. Here in Toronto we've lost most of our bike recycle shops. There's still one up the street, Bike Pirates that I'll visit with a measuring tape. I have a spare fork here but it's too short. As always, I'll keep my eyes open for an abandoned bike on the street or in the trash.

sunburst 10-09-23 07:53 PM

another lube question. I just noticed a lube port on the bottom bracket of my Royal Scot this weekend...what!? That kind of blows my mind. Does the same oil go in all three ports: front hub, BB and Sturmey Archer IGH?

and pls remind me what's the best oil. I've been googling that for 20 minutes and have really been taken down some rabbit holes on various forums. So much conflicting information!!!
Is ATF as good or better than Phil's? Or motor oil?

Johno59 10-10-23 12:43 AM

Lube
 
Bottom bracket is grease not oil. ATF is for cleaning. A tablespoon of engine oil once a year in a running Strumey Archer hub is more than plenty.

1989Pre 10-10-23 05:19 AM

Ignore those oil ports. They were used to add oil to re-liquify the animal-based greases used in yester-year. Instead, use marine, waterproof boat-trailer grease in the bottom bracket, front hubs, pedals, and even the bearings of the internal gear hub (oil for inside of it). In my Sturmeys, I use electric motor oil called Zoom Spout Turbine. It has a 12" applicator tube that fits perfectly inside the oil port hole on Sturmey Archer internal gear hubs.

SirMike1983 10-10-23 07:53 AM


Originally Posted by sunburst (Post 23038442)
another lube question. I just noticed a lube port on the bottom bracket of my Royal Scot this weekend...what!? That kind of blows my mind. Does the same oil go in all three ports: front hub, BB and Sturmey Archer IGH?

and pls remind me what's the best oil. I've been googling that for 20 minutes and have really been taken down some rabbit holes on various forums. So much conflicting information!!!
Is ATF as good or better than Phil's? Or motor oil?

No need to overthink it or go down the rabbit hole. You can run the bottom bracket on a three speed on grease or medium weight oil, your choice.

I prefer grease and use the commonly available Lucas green grease. It comes in a tube and you can get it from most hardware stores. If you're riding in the rain or going through standing water, marine grease is a better choice. Don't attempt to use old-school brown axle grease in the bottom bracket. Don't use cheap dollar store type white grease either - it tends to gunk up and dry out.

If you prefer to use oil, use a medium weight oil like SAE 30 or 40 weight motor oil. The issue with an all-oil bottom bracket is you have to keep adding oil, and they tend to make a mess because the oil runs out the bottom and along the spindle. I would try the grease first.

Make sure the bottom bracket has been cleaned before you put a large number of miles on the bike. I've found all kinds of junk and debris in old bike bottom brackets over the years.

gna 10-10-23 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23038628)
In my Sturmeys, I use electric motor oil called Zoom Spout Turbine. It has a 12" applicator tube that fits perfectly inside the oil port hole on Sturmey Archer internal gear hubs.

Zoom oil is a 10W oil, so it's a little light, but it works just fine in SA hubs. Some folks prefer 20W or 30W oil. The applicator works really well. I have an empty zoom oil bottle I got at work and refilled it with synthetic 30W oil to use with SA hubs.

There's all sorts of conflicting information on what oil to use. The black 3-in-1 will gum up your hub, but the blue for electric motors is 20W and works well. It's similar to zoom oil. You can run ATF, but I think it's really thin.


Originally Posted by SirMike1983Pre (Post 23038705)
Make sure the bottom bracket has been cleaned before you put a large number of miles on the bike. I've found all kinds of junk and debris in old bike bottom brackets over the years.


I've found seeds, nuts, wasps--all sorts of stuff. Must come through the seat tube?

gna 10-10-23 10:16 AM


Originally Posted by swampyankee2 (Post 23033787)
This sounds like just the thing to get me out of my slump, and get some miles on the Sports as well. My only problem is, I live near the top of Chopmist Hill so it's away and down in any direction, and a long uphill slog back. Not suitable for a 3 speed. But I just mapped it out and if I trucked my bike down near the village I could offload and do a relatively level ride thru town and back. I could even stop for a beverage at the pub on the way by :beer:

Anyone else accepting this challenge?

I thought about it, but it would mostly be me riding to work and back.

SirMike1983 10-10-23 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23038838)
Zoom oil is a 10W oil, so it's a little light, but it works just fine in SA hubs. Some folks prefer 20W or 30W oil. The applicator works really well. I have an empty zoom oil bottle I got at work and refilled it with synthetic 30W oil to use with SA hubs.

There's all sorts of conflicting information on what oil to use. The black 3-in-1 will gum up your hub, but the blue for electric motors is 20W and works well. It's similar to zoom oil. You can run ATF, but I think it's really thin.


I've found seeds, nuts, wasps--all sorts of stuff. Must come through the seat tube?


Yes, it falls down the seat tube. I've found all kinds of junk - seeds, insects, spiders, gum wrappers, what ever else. You can sleeve the bottom bracket using rolled sheet metal to close off the frame tubes. A notch needs to be cut for the oiler in the sleeve. You can do it with plastic too, though the plastic sometimes deteriorates.

The thing I don't like about sleeves is they trap moisture and debris at the bottom of the seat tube. You're just moving the problem up the tube, though it will keep the bottom bracket cleaner than otherwise. The sleeve should be pulled once in awhile for a clean out anyway, and the metal ones will cut you if you're not careful. I just removed one from an old Raleigh and ended up just not putting it back in.

I don't use sleeves. I just grease the center of the spindle and bottom of the bottom bracket. If anything does fall down the seat tube, it sticks in the grease at the center and does not migrate to the bearings. It all gets cleaned out when I repack the bottom bracket periodically. I will say I don't ride in foul weather or through standing water or when there is salt/slush on the roads. You see the sleeves in commuter bikes sometimes.

SoCaled 10-10-23 11:02 AM

"Marfield" - Sold through Marshal Fields department store - https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...xel-value.html
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...tory_type=post
I like the green wrapped bars
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8ba8e1194a.jpg

swampyankee2 10-10-23 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23038841)
I thought about it, but it would mostly be me riding to work and back.

So not much of a "challenge" for you then. For me, however, it does challenge me to get off my duff and go do something active.

1989Pre 10-10-23 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23038838)
Zoom oil is a 10W oil, so it's a little light, but it works just fine in SA hubs. Some folks prefer 20W or 30W oil. The applicator works really well. I have an empty zoom oil bottle I got at work and refilled it with synthetic 30W oil to use with SA hubs.

There's all sorts of conflicting information on what oil to use. The black 3-in-1 will gum up your hub, but the blue for electric motors is 20W and works well. It's similar to zoom oil. You can run ATF, but I think it's really thin.


I've found seeds, nuts, wasps--all sorts of stuff. Must come through the seat tube?

Keep in-mind that some seatposts, like the Stratalite, had an open top.

Salubrious 10-10-23 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 23038855)
I don't use sleeves. I just grease the center of the spindle and bottom of the bottom bracket. If anything does fall down the seat tube, it sticks in the grease at the center and does not migrate to the bearings. It all gets cleaned out when I repack the bottom bracket periodically. I will say I don't ride in foul weather or through standing water or when there is salt/slush on the roads. You see the sleeves in commuter bikes sometimes.

You can also plug the seat post.

sunburst 10-10-23 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 23038705)
No need to overthink it or go down the rabbit hole. You can run the bottom bracket on a three speed on grease or medium weight oil, your choice.

I prefer grease and use the commonly available Lucas green grease. It comes in a tube and you can get it from most hardware stores. If you're riding in the rain or going through standing water, marine grease is a better choice. Don't attempt to use old-school brown axle grease in the bottom bracket. Don't use cheap dollar store type white grease either - it tends to gunk up and dry out.

If you prefer to use oil, use a medium weight oil like SAE 30 or 40 weight motor oil. The issue with an all-oil bottom bracket is you have to keep adding oil, and they tend to make a mess because the oil runs out the bottom and along the spindle. I would try the grease first.

Make sure the bottom bracket has been cleaned before you put a large number of miles on the bike. I've found all kinds of junk and debris in old bike bottom brackets over the years.

OK, thx everybody. Oil in the IGH, grease in the BB. It must have grease in the BB because there is no oil residue anywhere. I will eventually take it apart. I've done it many times on other bikes, as I have bought many vintage wreaks in the past and enjoy bringing them back to life. It was those oil ports that threw me.

SirMike1983 10-10-23 07:13 PM

Getting in those late season three speed rides...

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...004_175405.jpg

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...010_173222.jpg

Johno59 10-11-23 12:26 AM

White Grease
 
I purchased some well recommended white silicone based grease that wasn't cheap and I had the same hardening problem mentioned above. I used it everywhere( coz it was so good) on the bike and after a few years it was worse than useless. I couldn't believe how bad it was, as some of my older bikes have the ancient two-pack grease ( grease dissolved by the occasional squirt of oil) that was 50 years old.
Does the white grease manufacturer expect you to rebuild the bike every year?! Surely not.

Sedgemop 10-11-23 07:13 AM

Couple of Superbes in need of rescue.

Raleigh Nottingham Bikes 1970s $100 Ithaca, MI


Facebook MI Superbes

$100 each

https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5w&oe=652AB37A
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Aw&oe=652AD63F
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...HA&oe=652BCA55

zookster 10-11-23 09:15 AM

Rod Brake Raleigh $50 Auburn, AL
 
Slightly crusty rod brake Raleigh for sale on FB in Auburn, AL for $50. It is somewhat nearby (about 2 hrs away) but I am going to be out of town until the 25th. If it is still listed then I will try to go have a look at it. Also sent a message to the seller to see if I can put a deposit (or pay in full, it's only $50) and have them hold it until I get back in town.
Rod Brake Raleigh

Seller's pictures:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a8cb060e79.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5acadbe259.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...13c3b41f50.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3c7865995f.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8195b833e2.jpg


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