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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

masi61 02-20-22 02:20 PM

obuckler This idea of splicing some tube segment into a latex tube is very interesting! I never even thought of that.

And when you say carpet glue for the base tape, is there a brand that is readily available that you could share?

obuckler 02-20-22 04:26 PM

From a big box home store:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...548283046.jpeg


splicing is easy and I would not hesitate to try if you had a need and were handy.

On repairing tubulars either a simple flat or a splice or tube replacement: the first one was hard and the rest got easier and easier. Just try. Same as working on your bike!

JohnDThompson 02-20-22 06:27 PM


Originally Posted by masi61 (Post 22414390)
replacing a tube completely and then re-sewing the carcass sounds VERY ambitious to me. And… I imagine you need a whole lot of thread - can I ask what brand you use and where you obtain it from?

I use a Stewart sewing awl for tubular tire repairs. It makes a locking stitch, like a sewing machine, and comes with heavy waxed thread to make it easier to pull through tough material like heavy canvas, leather, or tubular tire casings.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...Y/T110_Pkg.jpg

obuckler 02-20-22 08:33 PM

I have that awl or it’s knock and on my first repairs years ago did use it. Maybe I’m just older now but I still had too much trouble pushing that awl needle through—even after tapering the tip on the grinding wheel. Of course with it you can duplicate the exact stitching. Now I found a hint I think from Brandt about just using a single thread back and forth (through three holes back one skip forward and repeat) that keeps the same crossings diagonally—which is important to have the tire have proper shape. In the end it was quicker for me. Maybe I just did not have the right awl needles.

This is not time consuming for me as I collect all my flats (about one a year) and do the whole bunch at once during down times. All this talk about repairs could put people off on tubies! And out of four tires saved three and that works out to a nice sum to save.

pastorbobnlnh 02-21-22 08:53 AM

obuckler in theory at least, even the valve stem section of the tube could be spliced into a defective tube. Have you ever had the necessity to attempt one, and if so how did it hold up? I ask, because I recently installed a Vittoria Corsa with a leak at the valve stem. Fortunately, it was new, and I've sent it back for a warranty replacement (see post #2202 in this thread).

obuckler 02-21-22 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 22416412)
obuckler in theory at least, even the valve stem section of the tube could be spliced into a defective tube. Have you ever had the necessity to attempt one, and if so how did it hold up? I ask, because I recently installed a Vittoria Corsa with a leak at the valve stem. Fortunately, it was new, and I've sent it back for a warranty replacement (see post #2202 in this thread).

when you do this a lot you collect spare parts so I had one pernicious tube that I thought a splice kept failing but I finally realized it was the valve itself so I had a spare removable valve to switch out and solve the problem.

Leaks other than the valve itself around the stem are problematic if too close to the stem to get a patch on it and yes you can splice out that section but I would choose to replace the whole tube in that situation. One splice instead of two would be less work.

I have done 4-5 splices all without fail. Hope I am not repeating this next comment: it is a pleasure to patch latex because the tube has no mold marks so it is easily patched anywhere. On butyl mold marks can get in the way.

masi61 02-21-22 12:04 PM

pastorbobnlnh

There was a thread last year about latex tube leaks in the rubber vulcanized valve stem base.
I talked about how I use nylon locking collars around the smooth (non-treaded type) of valve stem to minimized pump head flexion of that delicate part of the tube. I discovered that I was the one making these valve stems leak and the latex tubes needing premature replacement.
So with the 6mm nylon locking collar and a fresh pump head where you can lock it on the valve for an airtight seal minimizing downward pushing strain, I no longer have this issue with latex tubes.

I’m not saying there is necessarily anything wrong with how you are pumping up your tires - but will just say that - for me - I was doing some things that led to premature failure not a tire defect.

obuckler 02-21-22 12:49 PM

I can sometimes have troubles getting my pump head to stay locked to smooth sided valve stems. Irritating. With your thoughts I think I will make sure the tube is fully deflated before pumping so I can push all the way down without fear of any tube issues. I did see a stretch mark on the tube I tossed right by the valve stem and I think that is why.

masi61 02-21-22 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by obuckler (Post 22416744)
I can sometimes have troubles getting my pump head to stay locked to smooth sided valve stems. Irritating. With your thoughts I think I will make sure the tube is fully deflated before pumping so I can push all the way down without fear of any tube issues. I did see a stretch mark on the tube I tossed right by the valve stem and I think that is why.

Good luck with doing this way. To my mind pushing down on a fully deflated tube still stresses the valve when putting the pump head on. My old Topeak pump head died. I temporarily purchased a Serfas pump that was a nice pump head that positively locks onto the presta valve without too much pushing.

79pmooney 02-21-22 02:43 PM

I rode tubulars for 25 years pumping up with the Zephal HP, then HPX with their excellent lever activated locks. To this day I don't understand why all presta pumps don't use that design. Any patents expired decades ago. Open, they slide easily over threaded valves and closed, never slip off the smooth ones. (Well, they do wear. After a decade of regular use, you'll probably need a new gasket.)

And, with a frame pump with no hose, your hand keeps the pump head on the valve, so that Zephal-style gasket can go long past dead!

obuckler 02-21-22 03:44 PM

Maybe I’ll clean the head and or replace the gasket on my spesh air tool pro pump. I like the pump overall.

not sure why putting pressure on a deflated tire would stress the tube? It would not push on the side of tube during the latch on. Anyway I’ll just be more careful. Alas since I ride three bikes with tubular wheelsets many times they’re flat from normal air loss by the time I get to ride one again.

but now I know why I had that weak stretched place!!


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5abf5f129.jpeg
just a photo of the stem section

masi61 02-22-22 06:14 AM

obuckler - that valve on what looks to be a Michelin latex tube does look pretty robust. So I have no idea if starting from a fully deflated tube with it bottomed out will prevent stressing the valve, I do understand this logic though. For me I came up with my nylon lock collar system for my Vittoria latex tube clinchers after my daily pre-ride inflation methods created leaks around the valves on 3 straight tubes.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ab862d298.jpeg

obuckler 02-22-22 07:18 AM


Originally Posted by masi61 (Post 22417447)
obuckler - that valve on what looks to be a Michelin latex tube does look pretty robust. So I have no idea if starting from a fully deflated tube with it bottomed out will prevent stressing the valve, I do understand this logic though. For me I came up with my nylon lock collar system for my Vittoria latex tube clinchers after my daily pre-ride inflation methods created leaks around the valves on 3 straight tubes.

Interesting solution.

I did look my head over. The gasket was worn. I had two new ones at the ready. But I had gone down that route before. So instead I looked at a gasket from a top peak mini DX frame pump which while not a perfect fit seemed thicker on the bottom where the seal/grab is. After a couple of tests voila a clean grab onto the smooth stem!

I also dry lubed the mechanics in the head sans the washer which helped a lot.

I guess smooth stems are a cost savings? I prefer threaded.

tcpasley 02-22-22 11:24 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22414171)
Well I sure got my money's worth out of this pair.
Also, my glue jobs are as good as they get.

How many miles? And were those 27mm?

DiabloScott 02-23-22 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by tcpasley (Post 22418466)
How many miles? And were those 27mm?

Not sure, three seasons, these are on my winter bike. I judge based on if the tread wears out normally instead of the tire getting ruined by cuts and gouges.
Yeah, those are Vittoria Pavè 27mm actual width 26-27. I glued on my last pair of those last week.
I got some S Works Turbo Hell of the North for next time, and they look really nice - labeled 28 but actual 27-28 and a file tread that I really like.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a775460325.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...446ff6dfd7.jpg
Ursa-approved.

roadcrankr 02-23-22 11:44 PM

Nice find here with this tubular sub-forum. Great ideas, as well. Plan to implement several of 'em.
I noticed really good prices at bike24.com. Better than anybody, actually. Wondering if you all experienced good products and service.
I ride Veloflex criterium or Vlaanderens. These are becoming difficult to find. When you do locate a seller, they want a king's ransom.
How well do Veloflex Corsa and ProTour in 25's stack up? I did not see mention of them here.

gaucho777 02-24-22 02:06 AM

roadcrankr I recently installed a pair of Veloflex ProTours in 28mm. I miss the more classic tread profile of the Vlaanderens, but my first impression after a couple hundred miles on the ProTours is very positive--grippy, well-made: even & true w/out lumps, nice comfortable and "connected" road feel.

CV-6 02-24-22 11:08 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22418785)
Not sure, three seasons, these are on my winter bike. I judge based on if the tread wears out normally instead of the tire getting ruined by cuts and gouges.
Yeah, those are Vittoria Pavè 27mm actual width 26-27. I glued on my last pair of those last week.
I got some S Works Turbo Hell of the North for next time, and they look really nice - labeled 28 but actual 27-28 and a file tread that I really like.

Ursa-approved.


You will like the HOTN. Mine measure at 26.5mm.

tcpasley 02-27-22 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22418785)
Not sure, three seasons, these are on my winter bike. I judge based on if the tread wears out normally instead of the tire getting ruined by cuts and gouges.
Yeah, those are Vittoria Pavè 27mm actual width 26-27. I glued on my last pair of those last week.
I got some S Works Turbo Hell of the North for next time, and they look really nice - labeled 28 but actual 27-28 and a file tread that I really like.
Ursa-approved.

Nice! I have a set of green stripe Vittoria Pavè 27mms and a single 30mm, as well as an all black set of 30mm Vittoria Pavè CG IIIs. The rims I have are old Ambrosio Montreals and Mavic GL330s, on wheels with old Campy freewheel hubs. I assume all these tires would work well on those rims, since they were used with even wider tires on 'cross wheels back in the day. What rims are you using?

I'm debating whether to run the 30mm on the rear with a 27mm front to help even out the wear. I'm not sure it would be worth it.

SJX426 02-28-22 06:38 AM

@roadcranr - Don't know about bike24.com. I will find out as I ordered a pair of Vittoria's from them at a very reasonable price. We will see how it develops.

On another note, the tires shown in 2241. Challenge Elite Pro, turned out to be lumpy. I cannot endorse these.

DiabloScott 02-28-22 10:04 AM


Originally Posted by tcpasley (Post 22423183)
Nice! I have a set of green stripe Vittoria Pavè 27mms and a single 30mm, as well as an all black set of 30mm Vittoria Pavè CG IIIs. The rims I have are old Ambrosio Montreals and Mavic GL330s, on wheels with old Campy freewheel hubs. I assume all these tires would work well on those rims, since they were used with even wider tires on 'cross wheels back in the day. What rims are you using?

I'm debating whether to run the 30mm on the rear with a 27mm front to help even out the wear. I'm not sure it would be worth it.

I have been using Vittoria Pavè 27mm for probably 10 years... I went through a couple sets of GL330 rims that I got used and they worked fine, but a few years ago I built a really nice pair of wheels on new HED Belgium tubular rims, which are a little wider and deeper. To accent the fact that I built them myself, I laced them with the pulling spokes black and the pushing spokes silver... you can kind of see the effect in this photo; subtle but cool.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...37bcc8676f.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a306ca12db.jpg

Wiel 03-02-22 10:53 AM

Black and silver spokes are a nice idea
 
Of your wheels don't get better or faster, but they will stand out against the average.

Wiel

SJX426 03-04-22 12:25 PM

Another variation of colored spokes showed up when I found a pair of wheels at an incredably low price that came with this spoke color set. Easy to find the stem.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...bd0fba4a_b.jpgP1030022 on Flickr

squirtdad 03-07-22 02:41 PM

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ol-tubies.html

Classtime 03-08-22 10:28 AM

Awesome Wheel set right there. Works fine with 9 and 10 speed too.


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