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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

slowtostart 04-20-13 04:27 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 15530410)
Nice kid; nice bike.

I've had the boiled linseed oil on those grips for abouta week now and they're still a little tacky...

Got any advice/insights?

I finished my cherry kitchen countertops with a blend of boiled linseed oil, spar varnish, and paint thinner. They still look great after ten years of heavy use and an occasional waxing. I don't know if this formula will work on cork, but may do a test on a pair of puppy chewed cork grips later today.

nlerner 04-20-13 08:16 AM

I did these cork grips with some wood dye to darken them and then a few coats of shellac. They ended up a bit too shiny so I took some of that off with some 000 steel wool:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-C...347F593C82.JPG

SirMike1983 04-20-13 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by PHT (Post 15506570)
It's great to have a fully functional beater and an old Raleigh is the best kind! When the bike isnt in such great shape to begin with, I dont feel as bad customizing bits like bars, stem, brakes. Every once in a while I'll rub some oil on her and she'll look a slight touch nicer. I may steal Wahoo's idea and try some black shoe polish.

Yup, that's me, thanks for the kind words.

It's a big cog- if it's not a 22, it's a 21. Helps a lot going up those hills, but the descents arent as fun.

re: Ergon grips- I like them lots too, they are nice to have on longer rides.

I think they should have shipped these bicycles with a 20 or 22 tooth cog and not the stock 18. I have been finishing up a Raleigh Dawn 3 speed and was running the stock 18 on it for a few weeks before installing the chain case a few days ago. When I did the chain case, I upped to the 22. When I started test riding it to set up the chain case, I instantly was reminded why I swapped my others to 22s. A 20 doesn't work badly either, but I've settled on 22 as a nice spot where I use all 3 gears on a regular basis.

IthaDan 04-20-13 01:22 PM

Seriously considering getting a larger cog for the SA hub on my '74 superbe (almost NEVER use the highest ratio). Couple questions: what chain would you recommend (I tend to put sram pg850's on EVERYTHING), and any downsides (increased wear...) to using lowering the physical gearing of an english 3 speed?

No idea what's on there, I haven't counted, but it can't be much bigger than 20t.

Sixty Fiver 04-20-13 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by IthaDan (Post 15532609)
Seriously considering getting a larger cog for the SA hub on my '74 superbe (almost NEVER use the highest ratio). Couple questions: what chain would you recommend (I tend to put sram pg850's on EVERYTHING), and any downsides (increased wear...) to using lowering the physical gearing of an english 3 speed?

No idea what's on there, I haven't counted, but it can't be much bigger than 20t.

I use KMC K710 chain on all my fg, ss, and IGH equipped bicycles.... it is strong, quiet, resists rust really well, and last forever.

As for gearing, the stock 650A Raleighs usually had an 18 tooth driver which makes the top gear too high for anything but downhills and strong tail winds... I like to set my 3 speeds so the third gear is my primary cruising gear (I like 72 gear inches) and then treat 1st and 2nd as step down gearing.

My '54 can rock a 48/20 because the bike is more aero and lighter and having a 50 gear inch low is not a problem and I can exploit a higher top gear.

IthaDan 04-20-13 04:43 PM

I don't feel like counting. Do you know the stock size for the chain wheel? I'm going to order a new driver.

Sixty Fiver 04-20-13 05:28 PM


Originally Posted by IthaDan (Post 15533060)
I don't feel like counting. Do you know the stock size for the chain wheel? I'm going to order a new driver.

46 teeth.

Older Raleighs came with 48 tooth chain wheels but a '76 would have the stock 46 tooth chainwheel.

noglider 04-20-13 10:47 PM

My Rudge has a 48T chainring. I changed the 18T cog for a 24T! My top gear is about 69". I have to coast downhills which is ok because I can now climb all my hills without much trouble.

I just discovered that raising my seat higher than on my road bikes helps too.

Any chain works fine on these bikes. 1/8" single cog drive trains are durable.

wahoonc 04-21-13 02:13 PM


Originally Posted by IthaDan (Post 15532609)
Seriously considering getting a larger cog for the SA hub on my '74 superbe (almost NEVER use the highest ratio). Couple questions: what chain would you recommend (I tend to put sram pg850's on EVERYTHING), and any downsides (increased wear...) to using lowering the physical gearing of an english 3 speed?

No idea what's on there, I haven't counted, but it can't be much bigger than 20t.

I have put as large as a 24t on a couple of my SA three speed hubs. I have several different chains some are the cheapo WM Bell Brand which work fine on low mileage bikes. On my daily all weather riders I have been using the KMC Z410RB which is their rust buster chain. I am going to check into the K710 that Sixty Fiver recommends. I have not noticed much chain wear on any of my SA hub bikes. I have one that has well over 35,000 miles on it I think it might be on it's 3rd chain since 1982.

Aaron :)

IthaDan 04-21-13 04:55 PM

Went ahead and bought a 22t cog from Jenson. Also picked up a 710 chain, but that's going on the steamroller and the 410 on the steamroller will end up on the superbe.

I really have grown to like this bike. Now I need to resolve the rear light and the key for the fork lock. It gets all kinds of attention I never would have anticipated.

SirMike1983 04-21-13 07:50 PM

I like the Sachs SRAM Nickel colored chains. I usually buy them paired with the cog from Harris Cyclery.

Robinhood1970 04-21-13 08:20 PM

So we own a few Robinhood 3 speeds and a 60's raleigh 3 speed as well...whats your thoughts of this bike...its by Flying Pigeon steel frame made in china. It looks really solid...keep in mind that these bikes were a part of history as well.
http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...ete-Bike-1.jpg

PalmettoUpstate 04-22-13 06:41 AM


Originally Posted by Robinhood1970 (Post 15536725)
So we own a few Robinhood 3 speeds and a 60's raleigh 3 speed as well...whats your thoughts of this bike...its by Flying Pigeon steel frame made in china. It looks really solid...keep in mind that these bikes were a part of history as well.

A part of history indeed. WSJ did a really good piece on the Flying Pigeon several years ago and it's definitely worth tracking down if you are a fan - as everyone should be - of these "lightweight English-type bicycles"

In a nutshell, clones of the DL-1 were already being churned out en masse in India [Eastman and others...] when Chairman Mao took a look about at the "new" China he and his cohorts had created and they decided that it was time for Red China to build bicycles - a LOT of bicycles - and so they pretty much settled on building the tried and true - and incredibly strong - Raleigh DL-1 design as the "Volksbike" for the masses.

I have the article scanned in I believe and will email it to those who PM me on this forum.

FWIW - Every so often you see someone Stateside importing them; there was recently someone in Raleigh, NC doing so; Yellow Jersey I believe used to do so...

I guess you can ride that beauty on the hilltops in Bryson City; it appears to be the ubiquitous single speed LOL!

Robinhood1970 04-22-13 09:48 AM

great replay and info palmettoUpstate!! My shed has 8 bicycles and have room for at least 2 more:)

PalmettoUpstate 04-22-13 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by Andrew F (Post 11278123)
All cleaned up and delivered to my God daughter this morning for college.

'69 Dunelt off CL for $35
Pair of Creme Delta's $46
Toto basket $35
The smile on her face.......priceless!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=164395









Andrew if you are still out there and happen to get this I'd like to thank you for posting the pic of the DUNELT you reclaimed for your daughter...

PalmettoUpstate 04-22-13 12:11 PM

8 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312293 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312295http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312296http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312297http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312302http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312308http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312312http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312313

....it was the primary inspiration for a bike I'm finishing up for our "fleet"; I call her "Princess Pea"!

She's a 1972 AMF Hercules and seems to have been kept out of the weather all her life.

noglider 04-22-13 02:31 PM

You did fine work, PalmettoUpstate.

wahoonc 04-22-13 04:32 PM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 15537676)
A part of history indeed. WSJ did a really good piece on the Flying Pigeon several years ago and it's definitely worth tracking down if you are a fan - as everyone should be - of these "lightweight English-type bicycles"

In a nutshell, clones of the DL-1 were already being churned out en masse in India [Eastman and others...] when Chairman Mao took a look about at the "new" China he and his cohorts had created and they decided that it was time for Red China to build bicycles - a LOT of bicycles - and so they pretty much settled on building the tried and true - and incredibly strong - Raleigh DL-1 design as the "Volksbike" for the masses.

I have the article scanned in I believe and will email it to those who PM me on this forum.

FWIW - Every so often you see someone Stateside importing them; there was recently someone in Raleigh, NC doing so; Yellow Jersey I believe used to do so...

I guess you can ride that beauty on the hilltops in Bryson City; it appears to be the ubiquitous single speed LOL!

Morgan Imports out of Durham, NC was importing them, but I think they only brought over one container. I don't see the full bike listed on their website anymore. The DL-1 was the single most produced bike of all times. Raleigh made them in something like 15 different countries, usually under contract from local factories. When Raleigh pulled out the factories switched the name and kept on cranking them out.

Aaron :)

Howard 04-22-13 05:25 PM

Dumb question...
I know the DL1 - like bikes from India were whitworth
threaded, but what about the Flying Pigeons?

...and on topic, was able to take the 48 Sports around the block. I had a handy TCW as the only brake for the initial test ride, but have since connected the rear brake. Front brake will get attention this week.

It isn't original, but is coming together with parts on hand. It was frame, fork, headset, BB, stem, crank, and handlebars only.

Now has some hammered 650B Honjos, Michelin World Tours (refllective stripe on the sidewall), center pulls, and so on. I liked the look when it emerged from The Lab, will put up a pic when I get a decent one.

RALEIGH_COMP 04-22-13 05:54 PM

http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/v...psbf8fd558.jpg

wahoonc 04-22-13 07:11 PM


Originally Posted by Howard (Post 15540524)
Dumb question...
I know the DL1 - like bikes from India were whitworth
threaded, but what about the Flying Pigeons?


...and on topic, was able to take the 48 Sports around the block. I had a handy TCW as the only brake for the initial test ride, but have since connected the rear brake. Front brake will get attention this week.

It isn't original, but is coming together with parts on hand. It was frame, fork, headset, BB, stem, crank, and handlebars only.

Now has some hammered 650B Honjos, Michelin World Tours (refllective stripe on the sidewall), center pulls, and so on. I liked the look when it emerged from The Lab, will put up a pic when I get a decent one.

Dunno about the FP but most of the India built bikes are whitworth.

Aaron :)

SirMike1983 04-22-13 07:48 PM

1965 Dawn Tourist with rod drum brakes.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XVlWdiv7gT...0/IMG_2951.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-55Jwv0eyIs...0/IMG_2954.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7c_C0sqNV4...0/IMG_2953.JPG

http://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2013/...t-bicycle.html

noglider 04-23-13 07:18 AM

Sir Mike, that's spectacular. Have you written the story about that bike? I'd love to know more.

Howard, I expect that all the factories use identical tooling, so the Flying Pigeons would be Whitworth. I worked on one Chinese model long ago, and I think it was Whitworth.

The different countries had different sources of steel. Steel in Asia didn't have high quality steel available, and I noticed that the bikes' nuts and bolts etc were softer than the English Raleigh bits. This was in the early 80's. Things might have changed since greater globalization.

Velognome 04-23-13 07:47 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 15539085)
Andrew if you are still out there and happen to get this I'd like to thank you for posting the pic of the DUNELT you reclaimed for your daughter...


Oh he's still out there and he appreciates the acknowledment ;). Fine job on the Princess Pea!

SirMike1983 04-23-13 05:56 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 15542479)
Sir Mike, that's spectacular. Have you written the story about that bike? I'd love to know more.

Howard, I expect that all the factories use identical tooling, so the Flying Pigeons would be Whitworth. I worked on one Chinese model long ago, and I think it was Whitworth.

The different countries had different sources of steel. Steel in Asia didn't have high quality steel available, and I noticed that the bikes' nuts and bolts etc were softer than the English Raleigh bits. This was in the early 80's. Things might have changed since greater globalization.

The bicycle is an export model variant of the Raleigh Dawn Tourist. The Dawn line was a sort of hybrid roadster featuring 26 x 1 3/8 (590) wheels and matching frame, but with rod brakes and often (though not always) a full chain case. The line was advertised as being a rod brake roadster with a lower bottom bracket than the usual DL-1. This bicycle appears to have fallen into that line. This one is somewhat different in that it was equipped with rod and drum brakes rather than rod and stirrup brakes. It was a Danish export model and bears the tell tale Danish serial type stamp.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-B98GqjXTew...0/IMG_2959.JPG

The stamps can be decoded here: http://longjohn.org/alter/alter_en.html

The stamp on this bike dates to 1965, which is consistent with the hub dates (12/64 and 1/65). The W stands for an imported bicycle, the N is the manufacturer code (there seem to have been many of these, more than described on the link above), and the B stands for 1965. The rest is a serial number.

I guess the drums were popular in the Danish market as a feature. So basically it's a Raleigh Dawn Tourist but with the twist of being made for export to the Danish market. At some point it came to the US and I bought it as a project from another Raleigh enthusiast last year.

jrecoi 04-23-13 09:07 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 15542479)
Sir Mike, that's spectacular. Have you written the story about that bike? I'd love to know more.

Howard, I expect that all the factories use identical tooling, so the Flying Pigeons would be Whitworth. I worked on one Chinese model long ago, and I think it was Whitworth.

The different countries had different sources of steel. Steel in Asia didn't have high quality steel available, and I noticed that the bikes' nuts and bolts etc were softer than the English Raleigh bits. This was in the early 80's. Things might have changed since greater globalization.

The Eastman nuts and bolts that I've seen in Colombia are still made out of the same soft steel you've mentioned. As far as the threading goes, you can find examples of both Whitworth and ISO on items such as bottom brackets and headsets, although Witworth threaded items are called "Phillips type" here. The roadsters built in Colombia are made with ISO threading, haven't checked the threading of newly imported Eastman roadsters.

The pattern I've observed is that a roadster in Colombia is built with Eastman stem/handlebars and rod brakes, and fitted with locally made aluminium rims and other locally produced items.

PalmettoUpstate 04-24-13 03:08 PM

Thank you. Certainly couldn't have pulled it off - at least accurately and somewhat more easily - without this excellent thread [and contributors].

Sixty Fiver 04-24-13 03:16 PM

Spring has finally sprung... mind you... I had to drive 1000 miles south to find it.

:)

Brought the '54 Raleigh with me and spent the morning riding and running errands with my wife down through south east Portland and could not ask for more beautiful weather or more beautiful company. Ride on that bike is as smooth as butter on glass and she's geared just right for those long climbs to the east... :)

After 18 hours of driving to get here and a little more driving around yesterday it was so nice to get out and ride...

PalmettoUpstate 04-24-13 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 15542479)
Sir Mike, that's spectacular. Have you written the story about that bike? I'd love to know more.

Tom I noticed that Sir Mike wrote a good bit about the Dawn Tourist on his blog; check it out if you haven't already. And thanks for the kudos on the Princess Pea. Ditto Velognome...

conradpdx 04-27-13 08:45 AM

As for the fork key, I was able to go to a locksmith and get a working one for mine. Not stock, but a key non the less.

Best to find an old school locksmith (and one that keeps his catalogs) I believe that we (like I did anything but walk in the door and ask) found the blanks in a 02 or 03 catalog. And luckily his distributor still had a "couple". I'm under the impression that the key makers don't make this blank at all anymore, but it's quite possible that the warehouses still have some floating around.


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