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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

michaelz28 03-13-15 10:12 PM

my three , a 74 raleigh sports , a 69 schwinn stingray and an 84 Columbia http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps28p7uidh.jpghttp://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...psbizxqixj.jpghttp://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...pswgl2i0zz.jpg

markk900 03-14-15 05:57 AM

Notice the change in logo on @michaelz28's 84 hub. I think that put @Velocivixen's hub at max around 1983 and at minimum around 1972. (or I guess when speaking of age the min and max should be reversed)

desconhecido 03-14-15 07:18 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17629002)
[...]
Other than making a ball ring tool or buying one from the Gentleman Cyclist, any ideas? I'm going to try penetrating oil overnight. It's off the wheel, so it wants to spin while hitting it to get ball ring out.

You can heat it up with the same heat application tool (***) that you use for heat shrink tubing. It's not as quick as a flame, but you can get something quite hot with one.

tbo 03-14-15 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 17628560)
I'd be interested in knowing what kind of accessories you settled on: LED lights, Hi-vis vest, bell, etc.

As I expand our empty-nester biking horizons I'm finding the need for good info on these things - along with cold weather clothing - is very crucial. Thanks!

Sorry, no help on the cold weather gear. Live in FL now, came from Southern CA.

Light: Wife has NiteRider Lumina 750 on her commuter. ~$120 on Amazon, IIRC. Unbelievable. I have a Nite Rider Lumina Micro 250 for my bikes. Also incredible, and a bit cheaper. Either one is awesome. Both lights use the same handlebar mounts and USB charging cable. If she forgets to charge hers overnight, she has permission (orders) to just take mine off the handlebars in the morning and not give it a second thought. I'll figure it out later.

Bell: OEM 72mm diameter. Loud.

HiVis vest: PlanetBike or similar that was hanging on the wall at LBS.

JohnDThompson 03-14-15 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17629002)
Other than making a ball ring tool or buying one from the Gentleman Cyclist, any ideas? I'm going to try penetrating oil overnight. It's off the wheel, so it wants to spin while hitting it to get ball ring out.

Don't bother with the Gentleman Cyclist tool, particularly if the hub isn't built into a wheel. Penetrating oil and a punch should eventually work. If your vise has a pipe jaw (or even if it doesn't, but it's not as secure), you can wrap the hub in a towel or thick leather and clamp it in the vise to hold it while you remove the ball ring. Sturmey-Archer did make a tool for that purpose, but it's hard to find. There is a modern version (not cheap), but it's designed to work with ball rings that have rounded notches (modern production), not the square notches on the vintage production.

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1412/1...cdcb435a_z.jpg

BigChief 03-14-15 08:32 AM

I would give the penetrating oil more time to work. In my experience, Liquid Wrench is OK, DB Blaster is better, but my personal favorite is a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid.
Caged vs loose ball bearings is one of those bicycling debates that have been going on for years, but if the cage is too messed up to straighten out, you could leave it out. I would replace the pitted cone, but I'm always fussy about those things.

nlerner 03-14-15 09:44 AM

So for the purposes of experimentation, I fitted 700c wheels with 32mm Pasela tires to this 1970s Raleigh Sports I've been tinkering with. Here's a lousy basement pic:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n...0/IMG_2316.JPG

Rear wheel is a SunTour single-speed, coaster brake hub built into a Rigida rim; front is some kind of Japanese QR hub also in a Rigida rim. I was surprised that the front hub fit the dropouts fine with a little wiggling. On the rear, I had to file flats on the axle to make it fit. A cheap saddle and some platform pedals, and I'm in business.

Velocivixen 03-14-15 09:58 AM

@nierner - that's a nice look, and that's a good looking ride. I find that I battle between wanting to show off the frame/bike and all the accessories that make things functional, like bell, fenders, etc. it's a balance but your bike is Hot!



Soaked the entire hub (got everything off as I could) in ultrasonic cleaner, dried, penetrating oil and used a flat head screwdriver instead of a punch. Came apart fine, re soaked & reassembled about FOUR times. Think I have lower pawls in backwards. It was after midnight and I was very tired. I kept taking apart & reassembling over and over with same results. So I'm leaving it alone for today. Will work on it later this afternoon.

I only think the date is '69. There are those two marks you see far apart from each other, and in good light look like a 6 & 9.

markk900 03-14-15 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17629863)
Came apart fine, re soaked & reassembled about FOUR times. Think I have lower pawls in backwards. It was after midnight and I was very tired. I kept taking apart & reassembling over and over with same results. So I'm leaving it alone for today. Will work on it later this afternoon.

Be there, done that, have the T shirt. Sometimes when the moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars, the hub just goes together first try.....most of the time you need to play around - try rotating the innards a bit as you assemble to get the pawls to drop into the left side of the hub.

I had some slipping on one hub and thought the pawls were worn so replaced them - while there is a right and wrong way to put the pawls in, from the perspective of reassembly it won't cause a problem - I had them in both ways and that never got in the way.

markk900 03-14-15 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17629863)
I only think the date is '69. There are those two marks you see far apart from each other, and in good light look like a 6 & 9.

Also, I think we established through trial and error that hubs were smooth up to about 1971...though I agree if you squint your eyes enough....more likely an early 80s hub....

Velocivixen 03-14-15 11:00 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 17629994)
Also, I think we established through trial and error that hubs were smooth up to about 1971...though I agree if you squint your eyes enough....more likely an early 80s hub....

I'm beginning to agree that its newer than '69. The inside pieces have almost a "goldish" finish, unlike my '55 which looks old.

I only took out & replaced the planet cage pawls/springs, not the gear ring pawls, so it has to be those bottom pawls. I had NO problems like this on my dyno hub. Ugh.

adventurepdx 03-14-15 11:09 AM

Alright, this thread has been bogged down with technical minutiae the past few days, ;) now time for some straight up eye-candy!

This was spotted at Ye Olde Velo Cult in Portland yesterday. Not strictly "British", but a mix of new Japanese frame and vintage British and French parts. To put it simply, "nicely done."
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8749/...bfb495d5_z.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7650/...dca2abb6b8.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7621/...62594d0dde.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8750/...93579e9463.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7288/...de59241975.jpg

El Segundo 03-14-15 11:18 AM

Nice! Japanese is the new British/Franco

gster 03-14-15 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17629863)
@nierner - that's a nice look, and that's a good looking ride. I find that I battle between wanting to show off the frame/bike and all the accessories that make things functional, like bell, fenders, etc. it's a balance but your bike is Hot!



Soaked the entire hub (got everything off as I could) in ultrasonic cleaner, dried, penetrating oil and used a flat head screwdriver instead of a punch. Came apart fine, re soaked & reassembled about FOUR times. Think I have lower pawls in backwards. It was after midnight and I was very tired. I kept taking apart & reassembling over and over with same results. So I'm leaving it alone for today. Will work on it later this afternoon.

I only think the date is '69. There are those two marks you see far apart from each other, and in good light look like a 6 & 9.

I was going to reply yesterday and say DON'T open that thing up but I didn't want to be a Debbie Downer! Those things spill their guts like a college freshman on Saturday night!
Best to approach it with a fresh attitude as they can be very frustrating. They come apart very easily, re assembly not so much. Even though I have 15 3 speed bikes I don't open the hubs...I learned my lesson. Luckily, here in Toronto a hub and wheel can be had for $10.00-$15.00, or free from the trash.
I saw a good tutorial the other day and will try to find again and post.https://chestercycling.wordpress.com...archer-aw-hub/

Velocivixen 03-14-15 11:51 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 17630153)
I was going to reply yesterday and say DON'T open that thing up but I didn't want to be a Debbie Downer! Those things spill their guts like a college freshman on Saturday night!
Best to approach it with a fresh attitude as they can be very frustrating. They come apart very easily, re assembly not so much. Even though I have 15 3 speed bikes I don't open the hubs...I learned my lesson. Luckily, here in Toronto a hub and wheel can be had for $10.00-$15.00, or free from the trash.
I saw a good tutorial the other day and will try to find again and post.https://chestercycling.wordpress.com...archer-aw-hub/

I have taken apart and am confident with the order and orientation of the parts, However, after just watching a video I see I have my pinion pins in upside down I believe. :( I know the parts part, but the pin orientation and pawl orientation is what I had to watch a video about. At this point, you could give me a box of loose AW parts and I could reassemble - with the pins in the correct orientation. I love to take stuff apart and, given my AG Dyno-Three hub as my first one I completely disassembled, I'm feeling good. This isn't going on a bike any time soon anyway....so I've got time.


EDIT: After watching "Graham's Garage" video I immediately saw the problem - had the sun pinion pins in upside down. Literally took 7 minutes to take apart, flip the pins. It made everything go together so much easier. With the pins upside down the gear ring was having a hard time "meshing" over the planet pinions. Anyway, once I corrected the pins it was easy sailing.

Heading to the coop to get a new indicator pin and a cone. Thanks for all your support.

gster 03-14-15 11:56 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17630182)
I have taken apart and am confident with the order and orientation of the parts, However, after just watching a video I see I have my pinion pins in upside down I believe. :( I know the parts part, but the pin orientation and pawl orientation is what I had to watch a video about. At this point, you could give me a box of loose AW parts and I could reassemble - with the pins in the correct orientation. I love to take stuff apart and, given my AG Dyno-Three hub as my first one I completely disassembled, I'm feeling good. This isn't going on a bike any time soon anyway....so I've got time.

I appreciate your dedication!

JohnDThompson 03-14-15 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17630182)
After watching "Graham's Garage" video I immediately saw the problem - had the sun pinion pins in upside down. Literally took 7 minutes to take apart, flip the pins. It made everything go together so much easier. With the pins upside down the gear ring was having a hard time "meshing" over the planet pinions. Anyway, once I corrected the pins it was easy sailing.

Been there, done that... :notamused:

markk900 03-14-15 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 17630050)

I *love* that chainwheel - what crank is that? I think it would go so well with my Trek build.

teaboy 03-14-15 01:35 PM

Some people just wont give in If that was me I would have thown the hub against the wall and gone down the pub

adventurepdx 03-14-15 01:49 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 17630375)
I *love* that chainwheel - what crank is that? I think it would go so well with my Trek build.

If I remember correctly, it's a vintage Stronglight.

BigChief 03-14-15 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17630182)
I have taken apart and am confident with the order and orientation of the parts, However, after just watching a video I see I have my pinion pins in upside down I believe. :( I know the parts part, but the pin orientation and pawl orientation is what I had to watch a video about. At this point, you could give me a box of loose AW parts and I could reassemble - with the pins in the correct orientation. I love to take stuff apart and, given my AG Dyno-Three hub as my first one I completely disassembled, I'm feeling good. This isn't going on a bike any time soon anyway....so I've got time.


EDIT: After watching "Graham's Garage" video I immediately saw the problem - had the sun pinion pins in upside down. Literally took 7 minutes to take apart, flip the pins. It made everything go together so much easier. With the pins upside down the gear ring was having a hard time "meshing" over the planet pinions. Anyway, once I corrected the pins it was easy sailing.

Heading to the coop to get a new indicator pin and a cone. Thanks for all your support.

Good Job! After that first AW rebuild, it will never be a problem for you again. Isn't it satisfying to know every last part in your machine?

Slash5 03-14-15 02:46 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 17629994)
Also, I think we established through trial and error that hubs were smooth up to about 1971...though I agree if you squint your eyes enough....more likely an early 80s hub....

I was just at the bike co-op and looked at a 72-3 smooth hub and a 72-10 ribbed hub.

Velocivixen 03-14-15 03:08 PM


Originally Posted by Slash5 (Post 17630566)
I was just at the bike co-op and looked at a 72-3 smooth hub and a 72-10 ribbed hub.

Isn't it sort of interesting that it could be just about late '60's to '80's? I'm not sweating it, just curious. I don't have a bike to put it on or wheels. Of course I could lace it to some 650b wheels and keep it for a "conversion". ;)

PalmettoUpstate 03-14-15 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 17630445)
If I remember correctly, it's a vintage Stronglight.

How about the hammered chain guard; know where they can be had?

desconhecido 03-14-15 04:40 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17630626)
Isn't it sort of interesting that it could be just about late '60's to '80's? I'm not sweating it, just curious. I don't have a bike to put it on or wheels. Of course I could lace it to some 650b wheels and keep it for a "conversion". ;)

If you want to do anything other than 590mm, it's nice to have the 36h hub. The available 40 hole rims, other than for 590mm rims, is not too great.

Like I said before, I think a $10 SA hub is a bargain. If the rim or spokes are useful, it's like getting the hub for free and "that's even better."


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