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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Gasbag 08-16-15 04:56 AM

I've been slow to warm up to the DL1 and the gearing is a large part why. I've only ridden it a handful of times since I restored it. It needs to get some general tweaks done. Oddly, for a bike built for tall folks, I feel a little cramped with the riding position and I'm a mere 6' 1". Today I'll get out the calipers and my high precision eyeballs to see if a cog change will work.

In other news, the BikeSmith tools arrived Saturday as promised. Well crafted and I have no fear of overpowering and damaging them. I can finally get back to work on the old roadster.

Gasbag 08-16-15 05:46 AM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 18079358)
I think it just fits from what I can recall. I have one that needs gearing down too. My full chain case is a Eastman but I think it was made to the same shape and size as the OEM Raleigh. So whoever gets to it first let us know if it works or not. :p

Aaron :)

Before heading out to my workshop, AKA garage, I did an internet search to try to save time and trouble. Velouria @ Lovely Bicycle!: Raleigh DL-1 Restoration! had a DL1 with full chaincase restored at A.N.T. with a 22T installed

thumpism 08-16-15 08:34 AM

This is a damned shame. Looks like a Raleigh Sports ladies' 3-speed in what is obviously not the original color. Too bad. And there's another in town painted completely green that is a prop for a local gift shop.

VINTAGE BICYCLE

VINTAGE BICYCLE - $50 (henrico) http://images.craigslist.org/00j0j_c...JH_600x450.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/00909_a...Us_600x450.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/00U0U_h...0I_600x450.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/00V0V_j...p7_600x450.jpg
http://images.craigslist.org/00c0c_f...0c_600x450.jpg




Bryson Drive at Pemberton Road

condition: good
size / dimensions: adult


GREAT CONDITION, WITH BASKET HAS FLAT TIRES. MAKES A WONDERFUL DISPLAY WITH BASKET FILLED WITH FLOWERS, OR WITH FIXED TIRE MAY BE RESTORED TO RIDE.

redfoxdogs 08-16-15 02:44 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi all, I am new to this forum having just picked up an Ivory Sports yesterday. My daughter is getting my 2002 Schwinn Sierra (probably to get stolen on campus) and I have decided that I am tired of having my wrists get numb while riding, so I am going to have this bike fixed up for me.

Based on the 7 digit serial number starting with "1" the frame looks to be 1970, but the decals ar 1973. The website I looked this up on stated that this was the case for some frames. It has a Dorcy Taiwan rack and reflectors that are yellowed but in good condition (I am guessing these were aftermarket). The tires might be original, they inflate and I can ride on them, but they scare me. The front wheel pulls to the right when I let go of the handlebars. The brake pads only stop when I am riding very slowly. The gear shift is a little tough, but works. I am not sure if the hub is original, there doesn't seem to be a number next to the "AW" and it is ridged. The pump is missing and there is no headlamp or bracket as far as I know. The saddlebag is also missing. There are lots of scratches and gouges in the paint, so I might have it redone with new decals because I fear the rusting. I have never seen a Raleigh of this color before, so maybe they didn't sell many around here.

I have been admiring the Schwalbe Delta Cruiser tires, I wonder how well they perform on crushed gravel/limestone trails. I mostly ride on the suburban streets or on Lake County Forest Preserve trails. I don't usually ride on the trails when they are wet and mushy in the spring, so I hope this bike will work as an all purpose bike. I remember riding my Schwinn Breeze in the mud and over fields so I am hopeful. Any suggestions as to tire replacement would be appreciated.

I have not been able to find any photos of an Ivory Raleigh tricked out and refurbished, so if you know of one, please direct me! I've been trying to decide if I want to stay with black cable covers or choose something else.

Also, I see that alot of people like the Pletscher racks, is there any advantage to switching out the old Dorcy rack for one of these? And what do you think of keeping/losing the old reflectors?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471454

redfoxdogs 08-16-15 03:26 PM

I know this is a very old post, but I am loving this bike!




Originally Posted by gna (Post 11401209)
I've seen a few Humbers. Here's a '51--note the fork:
http://photos.imageevent.com/abce/20...e/CIMG5251.JPG

From Lake Pepin 3-Speed Tour

There was also a gentleman from Winnipeg, Jeff (Geoff?) who had a blue Humber.


thumpism 08-16-15 03:39 PM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by redfoxdogs (Post 18080419)
Hi all, I am new to this forum having just picked up an Ivory Sports yesterday. My daughter is getting my 2002 Schwinn Sierra (probably to get stolen on campus) and I have decided that I am tired of having my wrists get numb while riding, so I am going to have this bike fixed up for me.

Based on the 7 digit serial number starting with "1" the frame looks to be 1970, but the decals ar 1973. The website I looked this up on stated that this was the case for some frames. It has a Dorcy Taiwan rack and reflectors that are yellowed but in good condition (I am guessing these were aftermarket). The tires might be original, they inflate and I can ride on them, but they scare me. The front wheel pulls to the right when I let go of the handlebars. The brake pads only stop when I am riding very slowly. The gear shift is a little tough, but works. I am not sure if the hub is original, there doesn't seem to be a number next to the "AW" and it is ridged. The pump is missing and there is no headlamp or bracket as far as I know. The saddlebag is also missing. There are lots of scratches and gouges in the paint, so I might have it redone with new decals because I fear the rusting. I have never seen a Raleigh of this color before, so maybe they didn't sell many around here.

I have been admiring the Schwalbe Delta Cruiser tires, I wonder how well they perform on crushed gravel/limestone trails. I mostly ride on the suburban streets or on Lake County Forest Preserve trails. I don't usually ride on the trails when they are wet and mushy in the spring, so I hope this bike will work as an all purpose bike. I remember riding my Schwinn Breeze in the mud and over fields so I am hopeful. Any suggestions as to tire replacement would be appreciated.

I have not been able to find any photos of an Ivory Raleigh tricked out and refurbished, so if you know of one, please direct me! I've been trying to decide if I want to stay with black cable covers or choose something else.

Also, I see that alot of people like the Pletscher racks, is there any advantage to switching out the old Dorcy rack for one of these? And what do you think of keeping/losing the old reflectors?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471454

Nice find and an unusual color. Can't help you with the Schwalbe tires since I've been using Kendas on mine. It's what my company sold at the time and they work.

I'm a Pletscher man because I like the rattrap feature, but I would not change racks simply for that. Any decent rack will support a trunk or shopping panniers or folding baskets if that is what you plan to use.

I don't use wheel reflectors or front reflector and any decent rear reflector is good enough for me. I added front and rear lights.

For improved braking with those chromed steel rims you need to get some Kool Stop brake pads, probably the red ones.

To help improve the shifting, shoot some lube into the three-speed trigger mechanism and onto the little indicator chain at the rear hub. Everything needs to move smoothly. The rear hub itself might be low on oil inside.

The pulling to the right when riding hands off may be a sign of the fork blades being out to the left. You might not be able to tell by eyeballing this, but if you sight down the centerline of the stem/headtube/fork and you can see more of the left side of the bottom of the wheel/tire combo than the right, this would indicate that this is the case. It can be tough to see on a bike with fenders. Precision measurement might take pulling the fork and putting it into a fork alignment jig to find a subtle variation. Basically, the rule is if it pulls to the right, the fork blades must be moved to the right to correct. All this assumes that the front wheel is centered in the fork and the axle nuts are tightened adequately. This is the case, right?

Searching turned up a few pix of them in this color:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471467http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471468http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471469

Good luck and enjoy the ride!

Gasbag 08-16-15 04:38 PM

Greetings Redfoxdogs. It seems you have been smitten with the English three speeds. I'll try to answer some of your questions.

Delta Cruisers are pretty decent tires for the crushed gravel trails. If that is where you would be primarily riding, the Panaracer Col De Vie would probably be a better choice as the are wider and would provide a more stable ride, especially in wet conditions. Also be aware that the creme Delta Cruisers get dirty pretty quickly.

Replace your brake pads with KoolStop salmon pads and the difference in braking will pleasantly surprise you.

The front wheel pulling to the right is a concern you should address before spending another dime on your bike. If you aren't comfortable with doing this yourself, have a knowledgeable friend or local bike shop check it for you. Try to get recommendations for a bike shop, some are way better than others. I wouldn't spend too much to fix it though.

As to paint, it would be pretty easy to get upside down money wise in the valuation of your bike if you are going to be paying to have the work done. I personally go over scratches with 0000 steel wool & WD40 and then rub boiled linseed oil over the scratched area to keep rust at bay. Once a year is all it takes. I like to keep some patina on my bikes though, gives them character in my eye.

Choosing a rack will depend on what you want from it. For bringing along a light jacket, a spring loaded rack is hard to beat. If you plan on shopping and hauling heavier loads, a stouter rack coupled with a front basket or carrier would be the better choice.

Shine a light from a distance at your reflectors in the dark to see how effective they are. If keeping it original isn't a priority, the aftermarket has a large selection of very good lights and reflectors.

I agree that Humber is a fine looking bicycle. Sadly, they don't come up for sale very often. I've been watching in the Chicago area for three years now for one with no success. From both a subjective and objective point of view, I find the early 1960's and back English three speeds to be superior to the later ones.

Gasbag 08-16-15 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 18079629)
This is a damned shame. Looks like a Raleigh Sports ladies' 3-speed in what is obviously not the original color. Too bad. And there's another in town painted completely green that is a prop for a local gift shop.

It looks like it robbed a bank

elmore leonard 08-16-15 05:21 PM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471482
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471483
Here are two Raleigh 3 speeds of mine.
The ladies has sturmey archer 3 speed
And I converted the mens from a 10 speed to a 3 speed using a shimano 3 speed.

Velocivixen 08-16-15 11:34 PM


Originally Posted by elmore leonard (Post 18080849)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471482
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471483
Here are two Raleigh 3 speeds of mine.
The ladies has sturmey archer 3 speed
And I converted the mens from a 10 speed to a 3 speed using a shimano 3 speed.

That step through looks real crisp & clean. Very nice.

noglider 08-17-15 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18079370)
I've been slow to warm up to the DL1 and the gearing is a large part why. I've only ridden it a handful of times since I restored it. It needs to get some general tweaks done. Oddly, for a bike built for tall folks, I feel a little cramped with the riding position and I'm a mere 6' 1". Today I'll get out the calipers and my high precision eyeballs to see if a cog change will work.

Tourists and Sportses have very short reaches from saddle to handlebar. Last time my wife tried my Sports, she refused to ride it because of that. There's not much you can do about it on a Tourist, because the stem and handlebars are a single piece, and I don't know of one with a longer reach. Moving the seat back is probably not a good approach, because then you are too far behind the cranks. So either get used to the position or don't. Those are your choices. I like my Sports for short, casual rides, and that's about it.

Changing the cog is a good idea. I lived in hilly Maplewood, NJ, and I put on a monstrous 22T cog on mine. I was happy with it that way. The bike now lives in Palm Beach for my annual visit to my mother in law. I don't need such low gears there, but I'll probably leave things as they are, because it hardly matters. You will need to change the chain to a longer one.

adventurepdx 08-17-15 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18080720)
Delta Cruisers are pretty decent tires for the crushed gravel trails. If that is where you would be primarily riding, the Panaracer Col De Vie would probably be a better choice as the are wider and would provide a more stable ride, especially in wet conditions. Also be aware that the creme Delta Cruisers get dirty pretty quickly.

I'd go for the Delta Cruisers. They are fine for crushed gravel, and I ride them regularly on other non-paved surfaces. While I thought the ride quality of the Col de la Vie were better than Delta Cruisers, the lack of decent puncture protection meant that I ended up fixing flats more often than I should for a "city" bike. If only Panaracer made a Pasela in 590 size...

And yeah, cream Delta Cruisers can get "dirty" but not as bad as some people think. And if you have steel rims, you don't have to worry so much about brake dust dirtying the wheels. This pic is from Saturday, and it's hard to tell that the Delta Cruisers are dirty, you'd have to get pretty close to tell.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5714/...aca1c45d_z.jpg

adventurepdx 08-17-15 11:59 AM

Speaking of tires, I encountered this Sports yesterday with what appear to be solid tires:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5832/...d0ec72daea.jpg
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/567/2...ef450d77bf.jpg

adventurepdx 08-17-15 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18082230)
Tourists and Sportses have very short reaches from saddle to handlebar. Last time my wife tried my Sports, she refused to ride it because of that...So either get used to the position or don't. Those are your choices. I like my Sports for short, casual rides, and that's about it.

Hmm...my 23" Raleigh Wayfarer feels fine with reach, and my bars are fairly swept back (Nitto Albatross). But then again, most people ride 21" frames, since they are the most commonly found on this side of the pond. I'm not particularly tall (5' 8") but the 23" fits me just fine. I had a 21" Rudge for a while but sold it because it felt too cramped.

NormanF 08-17-15 12:13 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18082864)
Hmm...my 23" Raleigh Wayfarer feels fine with reach, and my bars are fairly swept back (Nitto Albatross). But then again, most people ride 21" frames, since they are the most commonly found on this side of the pond. I'm not particularly tall (5' 8") but the 23" fits me just fine. I had a 21" Rudge for a while but sold it because it felt too cramped.

I'm 5'7" and I felt fine on my Raleigh Superbe 23" even though its big by today's standards. I had to push the seatpost nearly all the way into make it fit but I was able to ride it. A Nottingham Raleigh had a rather laid back geometry and that more than compensated for the mild steel used in the construction of the bicycle.

Gasbag 08-17-15 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18082230)
Tourists and Sportses have very short reaches from saddle to handlebar. Last time my wife tried my Sports, she refused to ride it because of that. There's not much you can do about it on a Tourist, because the stem and handlebars are a single piece, and I don't know of one with a longer reach. Moving the seat back is probably not a good approach, because then you are too far behind the cranks. So either get used to the position or don't. Those are your choices. I like my Sports for short, casual rides, and that's about it.

Changing the cog is a good idea. I lived in hilly Maplewood, NJ, and I put on a monstrous 22T cog on mine. I was happy with it that way. The bike now lives in Palm Beach for my annual visit to my mother in law. I don't need such low gears there, but I'll probably leave things as they are, because it hardly matters. You will need to change the chain to a longer one.

I am going to have to get used to my elbows banging on my rib cage when I ride it. Combine that with the creaking and popping of my knees I'll sound like a drum solo in motion :roflmao2:

I didn't pay attention to it when I had it all apart but the original sprocket is a 17T! That should be good for cruising interstate highways. I ordered a 22T and 116L chain yesterday. The cogs are cheap so if the 22T is too low for the flatlands I call home, I'll replace it with a 20T. There are some hilly trails nearby so I'll give it a go there.

noglider 08-17-15 01:49 PM

@adventurepdx, I should have specified that mine is a Rudge Sports. The hub says 1962. I assumed the dimensions are the same as on a 21" Raleigh Sports, but maybe not.

@Gasbag, you did the right thing. You'll be happy.

redfoxdogs 08-17-15 05:12 PM

Thanks @Gasbag, @thumpism, @adventurepdx.

My husband found a guy right in our town that does a nice job restoring bikes. We are going to go with a lot of the changes that seem popular on this thread, alloy wheels, new brakes and sundry, 22t cog. There are too many dings in the paint to make a "nice" bike even when cleaned up. Husband decided that it would get a paint job for my birthday in the original ivory with new decals and also paint the rear rack to match. The repair guy is going to weld on bushings to hold the cables like the 1974 models instead of clips. All this is fine with me! Only problem is it will be some weeks before it is ready, but maybe I'll have it back for some October riding. In the mean time I will be slowly reading through this thread and jotting down ideas. We did see a couple of nice original paint Raleighs that he has fixed up, so I do have an opinion of how much patina is reasonable for what I would like. And also did decide to go with the Delta Cruisers. Believe it or not, the tires were original and kept pressure over several days, but not something I would want to risk riding on.

thumpism 08-17-15 05:31 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18082849)
Speaking of tires, I encountered this Sports yesterday with what appear to be solid tires:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/567/2...ef450d77bf.jpg

That is the Zeus Airless Tire. I have one NOS. Used to work on a Schwinn Suburban belonging to a little old lady and she had one on the front wheel and loved the damn tire. The tire has no traction and no flex and they are scary to ride, but they never go flat and will likely outlast the planet.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471654

redfoxdogs 08-17-15 05:44 PM


Originally Posted by NormanF (Post 18082887)
I'm 5'7" and I felt fine on my Raleigh Superbe 23" even though its big by today's standards. I had to push the seatpost nearly all the way into make it fit but I was able to ride it. A Nottingham Raleigh had a rather laid back geometry and that more than compensated for the mild steel used in the construction of the bicycle.

My new bike is 21" and I am 5'7.5". It is a little short, but hey, I'm 56 now and bound to start shrinking sometime in the not-too-distant future anyway! I don't think the Sports come any taller, but it is a little short coupled. Enough so that you have to be a bit careful when hopping down to straddle the frame not to stab yourself with a handlebar! But the reason I got this bike was to sit upright and take the weight off my hands, so I will work thru it. I have never ridden a DL1 and never knew anyone that had one back in the day, as far as I know.

redfoxdogs 08-17-15 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 18084021)
That is the Zeus Airless Tire. I have one NOS. Used to work on a Schwinn Suburban belonging to a little old lady and she had one on the front wheel and loved the damn tire. The tire has no traction and no flex and they are scary to ride, but they never go flat and will likely outlast the planet.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=471654


So what does "NOS" stand for?

thumpism 08-17-15 05:48 PM

New Old Stock. Stuff from years ago, never used, frequently still in the original packaging. Car guys are crazy about NOS.

adventurepdx 08-17-15 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 18084021)
That is the Zeus Airless Tire. I have one NOS. Used to work on a Schwinn Suburban belonging to a little old lady and she had one on the front wheel and loved the damn tire. The tire has no traction and no flex and they are scary to ride.

I can understand why some people would like them, especially back in the 70's when tires were not as good as they are today, especially among riders who can't or don't want to fix flats. But I still love what Sheldon Brown said about airless tires:


Of all the inventions that came out of the bicycle industry, probably none is as important and useful as Dr. Dunlop'spneumatictire. Airless tires have been obsolete for over a century, but crackpot "inventors" keep trying to bring them back. They are heavy, slow and give a harsh ride. They are also likely to cause wheel damage, due to their poor cushioning ability. A pneumatic tire uses all of the air in the whole tube as a shock absorber, while foam-type "airless" tires/tubes only use the air in the immediate area of impact. Pneumatic tires require pumping up from time to time, and can go flat, but their advantages overwhelm these difficulties.

adventurepdx 08-17-15 05:56 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18083239)
@adventurepdx, I should have specified that mine is a Rudge Sports. The hub says 1962. I assumed the dimensions are the same as on a 21" Raleigh Sports, but maybe not.

I'm pretty sure that the Sports model frames of the Raleigh, Rudge, and Humber are all the same. But I don't know if there are different dimensions/angles between the 21" and 23" frames. Obviously the seat tube would be of different lengths, and I assume the top tube lengths would also be different.

redfoxdogs 08-17-15 06:11 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 18084075)
New Old Stock. Stuff from years ago, never used, frequently still in the original packaging. Car guys are crazy about NOS.

Ahhh. My husband has several "car guy" friends. We have owned a couple of older cars, but sold them on as they weren't all that great for everyday driving. '74 Jaguar and '63 Olds. The Jaguar was a money pit and couldn't handle snow and the Olds was great, but drank gas. I actually had to climb out of the window of the Jaguar at the train station when the doors froze shut once.

Old bikes are far more practical!!


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