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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

thumpism 12-11-15 10:11 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Sad, sad. I went to a nearby antique shop today and browsed their bikes, mostly junk and/or overpriced. I did see this ladies' Phillips with hub date '60, but nothing on it that isn't bent, bucked, corroded or rotted away. The Phillips-branded RH crankarm looks to be okay and the 40H Sturmey hub could be salvaged, but you'd really have to want both of them to mess with it. Maybe the kickstand, too. No price. The original paint is silver, pretty rare in my experience for an old English 3-speed.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...p;d=1449851121

Salubrious 12-11-15 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 18380888)
I think if you can get lube, grease into the bearings then you've done all that you can.


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18380817)
How rebuildable are the later-year Raleigh rubber block pedals?

I know they're not MADE to be torn down, lubed, and adjusted, but I don't think that's a real barrier. I'm just wondering if I'm headed for heartache if I try.

I've torn the pedals down to the constituent parts, cleaned and lubricated them and reinstalled them with no worries. Like any pedal though, if you don't tighten the cone locknut properly, they will fly right apart. I've rebuilt Persons, Torringtons and some block pedals on a French bike I have in exactly the same way.

There is a vintage issue: some later pedals appear to not be serviceable in the same way. But if you have pedals from the 1970s (IOW with reflectors built in) they can be rebuilt no worries.

With the Britiish 3-speeds there really is an age issue- the older machines are built to a higher standard, no way around it.

adventurepdx 12-11-15 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18381922)
I have these brake blocks on my Superbe...I tracked down the eBay auction source, and looks like they were made in the 1970s by T.D.S. of Seattle and were the "Sure Stop" model. They work quite well in wet and dry conditions.

Thanks for the tip! I'll keep an eye out for them.

adventurepdx 12-11-15 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by Bicyclz (Post 18382026)
...Having said that I've got a 1955 Humber Clipper (Lenton Sport variant) that came with 26 x 1 1/4" chrome steel rims, which are excellent, but I'm intending to fit alloy 700s (for all the obvious reasons) for regular use.

I understand wanting something different than 597 for tire choices. But is there any reason why you aren't considering going to 26" x 1 3/8" (590) or 650B (584) instead? Seems like it would be easier to deal with than jumping up to 622, at least where brakes are concerned. I know that 590 doesn't have the biggest tire selection, but there are some pretty nice 650B tires out this day. I think they'd look great on that Lenton,er,Clipper!

noglider 12-11-15 01:20 PM

I agree steel rims are not necessarily a death sentence, but you really have to know your brakes and rims. It also depends on the bike, the brake, the rim, and the hand strength of the rider.

Maybe the Weinmann cross type pads are good, but I haven't found anything I like more than Kool Stop Continentals in salmon color, and they're cheap enough for any bike except perhaps a bike you want to sell.

@Bicyclz, that blue bike is in my top five three speeds I've seen over all of my life. Keep posting about it.

noglider 12-11-15 01:21 PM

Ooh, you're in Gloucester. In 1981, I rode my bike from Bangor, Wales to Oxford, passing through Cheltenham. Nice countryside. I had a great time.

arex 12-11-15 01:47 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18382114)
There is a vintage issue: some later pedals appear to not be serviceable in the same way. But if you have pedals from the 1970s (IOW with reflectors built in) they can be rebuilt no worries.

It's a 1971 Ladies' Sports. I assumed they weren't conventionally rebuildable, since they seem riveted and pressed together, and from what Sheldon says. Maybe I just need to have another look at them.

markk900 12-11-15 02:12 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18382581)
@Bicyclz, that blue bike is in my top five three speeds I've seen over all of my life. Keep posting about it.

I agree - lovely bike....and the fact those fenders have lasted this long is incredible!

I'm gonna throw in 2 gratuitous photos I have posted before just 'cause I can and perhaps @Bicyclz had not yet seen them: first my Trek IGH conversion which is a modern version of the Clipper (though no where near as elegant):
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfy83lr3j.jpg

And then the 1949 Humber just so his Clipper doesn't feel lonely:
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps1edf2619.jpg

3speedslow 12-11-15 04:17 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18382670)
It's a 1971 Ladies' Sports. I assumed they weren't conventionally rebuildable, since they seem riveted and pressed together, and from what Sheldon says. Maybe I just need to have another look at them.

If they are the Union made Raleigh stamped model please don't make the effort. Older Raleighs were rebuild able and the chrome was fantastic, well worth the effort.

Those newer block ones are not suppose to be rebuilt.

Comes down to it, your decision.

Narhay 12-12-15 01:12 AM

I'd be interested in acquiring a set of the steel Raleigh brake calipers if anyone has a set lying around. Ideally ones from a later 70s model but I'm not picky at this point.

Bicyclz 12-12-15 08:10 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18382585)
Ooh, you're in Gloucester. In 1981, I rode my bike from Bangor, Wales to Oxford, passing through Cheltenham. Nice countryside. I had a great time.

Well, Gloucester is on the edge of the Cotswolds & you saw some of our best countryside.
My lovely Humber Clippers progress will be recorded here.

Was an Ebay find local to me, but no real interest so it landed in my welcome arms: )
I have it featured on my website, but I'm not yet really web savvy, so it's a work in progress!

Bicyclz 12-12-15 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18382251)
I understand wanting something different than 597 for tire choices. But is there any reason why you aren't considering going to 26" x 1 3/8" (590) or 650B (584) instead? Seems like it would be easier to deal with than jumping up to 622, at least where brakes are concerned. I know that 590 doesn't have the biggest tire selection, but there are some pretty nice 650B tires out this day. I think they'd look great on that Lenton,er,Clipper!

My attitude is that 700s give the widest choice of rims & tyres, & they do fit the frame with adequate room for available brakes/guards.
I've got a 650B bike (Francious Diamant mixte) & tyres are few & far between here...
Similarly 26 x 1 3/8".
700s seem to be the best for me, since they fit the frame so well.

Bicyclz 12-12-15 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 18382737)
I agree - lovely bike....and the fact those fenders have lasted this long is incredible!

I'm gonna throw in 2 gratuitous photos I have posted before just 'cause I can and perhaps @Bicyclz had not yet seen them: first my Trek IGH conversion which is a modern version of the Clipper (though no where near as elegant):
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfy83lr3j.jpg

And then the 1949 Humber just so his Clipper doesn't feel lonely:
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps1edf2619.jpg

I see them now & regret that my Humber does not have the twin forks: )
But mine's a Raleigh clone. (Not to mince words: )

markk900 12-12-15 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by Bicyclz (Post 18384114)
I see them now & regret that my Humber does not have the twin forks: )
But mine's a Raleigh clone. (Not to mince words: )

And yours is 531! Both cool bikes, for different reasons.

dweenk 12-12-15 01:27 PM

3 Attachment(s)
I came across a couple of long term projects today - two Raleigh sports and some brakes. One is a 1970 23" men's frame and the other is a later 21" curved top tube model. Both will need repainting, and the 21" needs to have the stem unstuck (I've been able to get it to move a bit though).

The 23" was black at one time but most of the top coat is gone and all you can see is a dull red primer. The 21" was gold and still is with the addition of the rust patina.

I bought them mainly because of the price and 4 Westrick rims that look to be salvageable. If I never get around to the frames, I still have quite a few parts to play with.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493011http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493012http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493013

I was in a hurry and neglected to take a before photo of the 23" before dismantling it. Also, I've never had to use a hammer to remove a tube before, but the owner decided to use electrical tape as a rim strip.

SirMike1983 12-13-15 11:18 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 18384587)
I came across a couple of long term projects today - two Raleigh sports and some brakes. One is a 1970 23" men's frame and the other is a later 21" curved top tube model. Both will need repainting, and the 21" needs to have the stem unstuck (I've been able to get it to move a bit though).

The 23" was black at one time but most of the top coat is gone and all you can see is a dull red primer. The 21" was gold and still is with the addition of the rust patina.

I bought them mainly because of the price and 4 Westrick rims that look to be salvageable. If I never get around to the frames, I still have quite a few parts to play with.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493011http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493012http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493013

I was in a hurry and neglected to take a before photo of the 23" before dismantling it. Also, I've never had to use a hammer to remove a tube before, but the owner decided to use electrical tape as a rim strip.

"Camel back" is the term people use for the curved top tube frames. The 23 inchers are comfortable. You have a couple blank canvasses there for good projects.

dweenk 12-13-15 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 18386169)
"Camel back" is the term people use for the curved top tube frames. The 23 inchers are comfortable. You have a couple blank canvasses there for good projects.

I am thinking of spending the time and $$ on the 23" Sports, but the Camel Back is actually a 19" model with really short crank arms. I think that frame will pass on to someone who may be able to use it.

3speedslow 12-14-15 07:08 AM

Good idea on choosing the 23" frame. Kind of rare, around here, and fits better to the avg height of the U.S. population.

Was wondering, what is the actual distance from BB to top of top tube?

Fidbloke 12-14-15 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18382581)
I agree steel rims are not necessarily a death sentence, but you really have to know your brakes and rims. It also depends on the bike, the brake, the rim, and the hand strength of the rider.

Maybe the Weinmann cross type pads are good, but I haven't found anything I like more than Kool Stop Continentals in salmon color, and they're cheap enough for any bike except perhaps a bike you want to sell.

@Bicyclz, that blue bike is in my top five three speeds I've seen over all of my life. Keep posting about it.

I was only relating what pads I’d tried myself really. And of those, the Weinmann ones turned out to be the best all-rounders. Nowadays, a lot of people have good things to say about the Salmon Kool Stop pads, so I will probably try a set, next time I’m shopping for pads.
Generally, I’ve found that I can lock the wheels on my bike, so the brakes must be good enough - when they’re working. If they won’t haul you up, then it’s usually down to them needing a service. I don’t feel that I’m losing out, or dicing with Death by using them.
With steels rims, regardless of what pads you’re using, it seems that the pads must be fairly fresh to work properly. Old pads may just give the rims a nasty rub, and not much more.

My term of ‘Death Sentence’ might have been strongly worded, but I’m just concerned that steel rims are often being portrayed as a Bad Thing on the forums - something that ‘must’ be replaced as a matter of course.
Maybe that’s just my perception…

dweenk 12-14-15 10:42 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 18387837)
Was wondering, what is the actual distance from BB to top of top tube?

It measures 22 1/2" from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the top tube at the seat lug.

noglider 12-14-15 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by Fidbloke (Post 18388282)
I was only relating what pads I’d tried myself really. And of those, the Weinmann ones turned out to be the best all-rounders. Nowadays, a lot of people have good things to say about the Salmon Kool Stop pads, so I will probably try a set, next time I’m shopping for pads.
Generally, I’ve found that I can lock the wheels on my bike, so the brakes must be good enough - when they’re working. If they won’t haul you up, then it’s usually down to them needing a service. I don’t feel that I’m losing out, or dicing with Death by using them.
With steels rims, regardless of what pads you’re using, it seems that the pads must be fairly fresh to work properly. Old pads may just give the rims a nasty rub, and not much more.

My term of ‘Death Sentence’ might have been strongly worded, but I’m just concerned that steel rims are often being portrayed as a Bad Thing on the forums - something that ‘must’ be replaced as a matter of course.
Maybe that’s just my perception…

It seems to depend on the bike, and I don't know why. My Rudge Sports stops adequately in the rain, though I wouldn't call it well. I adjust my expectations and my riding style, and I'm OK. On the other hand, when my Raleigh Twenty had its original rims and brakes, the brakes were effectively not there in the wet. No one would be wise to ride the bike in that state. I think I had new Kool Stops on it, so I can't explain the difference completely.

3speedslow 12-14-15 11:47 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 18388323)
It measures 22 1/2" from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the top tube at the seat lug.

Thanks for that info.

Interesting, so I can handle that size frame as well. Still up in the air which I prefer, the 21" or 23" frame sport.

3speedslow 12-14-15 12:02 PM

2 Attachment(s)
One sad, the other unfortunate. Found on my recent Sport 73'.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493284 Right good tear across the nose, other then that, perfect.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=493285 Someone's NC # on the seat tube. Thinking some fine sandpaper, then fine file work followed by matching black paint. Looks like it has not been scribed in too deep.

Finish has started to come around. First step was a soapy water bath. Then a WD-40 wipe. Then hitting it area by area with Mequires fine cut cleaner. What came off onto the cloth was a dark brown stain. I think the bike was stored in a space near a furnace. Black paint is really showing up now. Have to get some better shots with the bike in the sunshine.

Waiting on tires.

3speedslow 12-14-15 02:08 PM

Me again.

Question time. The saddle that is torn has the double rails(B72) on it. The one I plan on replacing it with is a brand new B68 I have had for quite a while. Problem is this saddle has the one rail system.

Can I use the seat clamp from the double rail for my single rail saddle ? Who has tried this and was it successful ? Do I need to hunt for a Made In England single rail clamp now?

Thanks !

Salubrious 12-14-15 02:24 PM

Yes- you are up against that seat mounting problem. So you have to find the right part. A LBS coop-type place will likely have what you need laying around in a bin.


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