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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

sykerocker 07-31-13 08:43 PM

I finally got the bike I've wanted for the past 45 years, since the days of working at AR Adams Cycle - a '73 Raleigh Tourist (AW hub is stamped 11 72):

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps94ea5884.jpg

Found it in rather good condition, and it was pretty much just a matter of tearing it down and cleaning everything.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps76decee7.jpg

I'd forgotten what they're like to ride, quite a bit different from anything designed and built in the last 40 years. It's the 24" frame which is a bit of a stretch for me. I barely clear the top bar while straddling with my heels on the pavement, however finding a 22" frame wouldn't be the easiest because these bikes primarily sold to tall customers, and anyone who could fit a 22" more likely went for a 23-1/2" Sports.

Merle Adams, my boss and owner, really loved these bikes and attempted to push them heavily back during the Bike Boom, trying to ignore the main for, as he called them, "those idiotic ten speeds." It was fun working on this, as I haven't touched a rod brake bike since about 1972 or 73. However, some of the old techniques came back into memory fairly quickly. I have got to find better brake pads before the bike kills me, but otherwise I'm looking forward to using it on Saturday evenings on Maggie and my rides thru Ashland, VA.

auchencrow 07-31-13 09:33 PM

Congratulations, Syke, on your new addition. Those Tourists are just solid classiness!
Such a fine example too. :thumb:

duffer1960 07-31-13 10:14 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 15908522)
I've run into a phenomena that I wonder if others have encountered. I have found that if I go fast enough, the front wheel can develop enough gyroscopic action to freeze in one plane. The first time this happened, I was gripping the handlebars fairly close to the stem. I was thrown off the bike at about 25 mph and got scraped up pretty good, but glad I didn't break any bones...

The second time it happened I was gripping the bars normally. That gave me enough leverage to overcome the front wheel's desire to stay in one plane so I didn't fall down. But is scared me good (it took a month to heal up the earlier scrapes).

This is really making me think that I have to be careful not to go too fast on this bike ('72 Raleigh Superbe), but it seems like it might also be solved by less mass in the wheel circumference. Right now I am using Sun CR-18s, with Sunlite tires. Would I be better off with those Specialized Trisports?? Anyone else run into this?

Have you ever piloted a motorcycle? Countersteer to get the bike into a lean, before you reach the beginning of the curve. And do it carefully and deliberately when at high speed, don't want to slide out with an unduly abrupt maneuver. Same with a bicycle, but the action and sensation are much more pronounced on a motorcycle at speed.

Have also read that applying the front brake when deep in a lean will result in the wheel turning sidewise & almost surely you'll crash. I didn't know this explicitly, but I think it was instinctive -- at least, made it through a turn that I misjudged by just leaning the bike farther, kept my hand off the brake.

stove panini 07-31-13 10:53 PM


Originally Posted by yellowbarber (Post 15908065)
Where did you find Panaracer 37-590 tires? I have 650Bs on our French cyclotouriste tandem & I've been going with 650A Michelin World Tours for a similar (albeit stiffer) kind of ride on Nottingham 3-speeds.

It seems they're sold out right now, but I got em from Niagara Cycle (http://www.niagaracycle.com/categori...50a-26-x-1-3-8)

conradpdx 07-31-13 11:37 PM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 15911174)
I have got to find better brake pads before the bike kills me, but otherwise I'm looking forward to using it on Saturday evenings on Maggie and my rides thru Ashland, VA.


Kool stop makes replacements pads for rod brake bikes. Black to keep it traditional looking, pink for better stopping power. Harris carries them but I think I've seen them cheaper in store somewhere round here, I'm going on a hunt this week end for my rebuild.

Salubrious 08-01-13 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by duffer1960 (Post 15911516)
Have you ever piloted a motorcycle? Countersteer to get the bike into a lean, before you reach the beginning of the curve. And do it carefully and deliberately when at high speed, don't want to slide out with an unduly abrupt maneuver. Same with a bicycle, but the action and sensation are much more pronounced on a motorcycle at speed.

Have also read that applying the front brake when deep in a lean will result in the wheel turning sidewise & almost surely you'll crash. I didn't know this explicitly, but I think it was instinctive -- at least, made it through a turn that I misjudged by just leaning the bike farther, kept my hand off the brake.

Yes, I have too many motorbikes :)

In both cases the event occurred when I was going straight and brakes were not applied.

markk900 08-01-13 06:02 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 15912951)
Yes, I have too many motorbikes :)

No such thing! But to your question I have not ever experienced that (and hope not to).
@sykerocker: lovely bike - congrats on completing you quest.....

sykerocker 08-02-13 08:57 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 15915140)
@sykerocker: lovely bike - congrats on completing you quest.....

Of course, now I need to find a ladies frame for Maggie. We'd love to have a matched set.

JBC353 08-03-13 06:37 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Sykerocker, congrats on getting that Tourist. Riding my wife's '75 convinced me I needed one for myself so now I am in the middle of fixing up a 24" '69.

Now that she has the Tourist her Schwinn Suburban just gathers dust. She finds the Tourist faster and way more comfortable. I put the orange Koolstops on it and braking now seems adequate, where before it was frightening. Here it is before the Koolstops and obligatory "Midwife" headlight.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=332641

HSean 08-03-13 11:34 AM

I've been inactive for a while but im around now and Have some great raleighs that you all may love! I even still have that really old one. I forget what ones I posted here but. heres current collection.

Gotta love these old raleighs!!

Brown 1972 Raleigh superbe. Never seen a brown one till I got it. this is the cleaned up.repaired picture. It was in very bad condition when i got it with alot of wrong parts.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps9792f1a2.jpg

40's maybe 50's Raleigh sports with 70's wheels.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps2d376bf4.jpg

Twin top tube Raleigh fireball mess. its a mess but worth reviving.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pse1f3f0b8.jpg

Girls Sports that lost it's fenders to the Superbe.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pse56fdd4c.jpg

Gold Raleigh sports.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps161746b6.jpg

Raleigh lenton sports converted to a 3 speed. I still have all the road bike stuff kept for it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psf52c3d3a.jpg

wahoonc 08-03-13 01:49 PM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 15919770)
Of course, now I need to find a ladies frame for Maggie. We'd love to have a matched set.

Which frame size does Maggie need? And while I am at it I will keep an eye out for a 22" for you. I ride the 24" with no problems. My current DL-1 is a 1981, but I am back dating some parts on it to make it look older. :D

Aaron :)

sykerocker 08-03-13 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 15921442)
Which frame size does Maggie need? And while I am at it I will keep an eye out for a 22" for you. I ride the 24" with no problems. My current DL-1 is a 1981, but I am back dating some parts on it to make it look older. :D

Aaron :)

I only remember the ladies frames coming in one size. If I'm wrong, she fits a 21-1/2 men's on a regular 3-speed. I'm not having any problems with the 24" myself, as I can clear the top bar on a fast get-off. Besides, back in the day, I was riding a 25-1/2" Sprite 10. Our shipments of 23-1/2" bikes was constantly pre-sold.


Regarding the back-dating: When did things change on those bikes? Other than the chain guard, and date stampings on the hub, what else changed? For that matter, when were the first ones made?

wahoonc 08-04-13 05:18 AM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 15922355)
I only remember the ladies frames coming in one size. If I'm wrong, she fits a 21-1/2 men's on a regular 3-speed. I'm not having any problems with the 24" myself, as I can clear the top bar on a fast get-off. Besides, back in the day, I was riding a 25-1/2" Sprite 10. Our shipments of 23-1/2" bikes was constantly pre-sold.


Regarding the back-dating: When did things change on those bikes? Other than the chain guard, and date stampings on the hub, what else changed? For that matter, when were the first ones made?

All I can find is that the step through frame came in 22".

Things that changed: triggers went from silver to black plastic, the brakes got the CSPC treatment, where the right brake controls the rear wheel (that one is hard to reverse, have to chase extra parts) Head light bracket is not the Heron one, and they mounted the reflector on it, the rear fender reflector went away to be replaced by a seat stay reflector. Most of these changes happened post 1978 from what I can tell. Also the quality of the wheel hub cones, chrome, and internal hub parts post 1960, but that was all Raleighs not just the DL-1.

It was first produced in 1913 under a government contract and continued until 1985. It was also produced under license in factories all over the world. Some under the Raleigh brand as well as under other names. Apparently it is still be produced in Denmark under license by Raleigh DK. It supposedly was the single most produced model of bicycle in the world.

I love mine, I have a chain case that I plan to get on there one of these days. I would love to switch the brakes back over but that may never happen. I also have an FG hub that I am considering converting to 5 speed :D

FWIW the 1970's are my favorite years of Raleigh bikes. I have Twentys, a Superbe, Sports Standard and a couple of Colts all from that decade.


Aaron :)

JBC353 08-04-13 07:29 AM

From the brochures I have seen the ladies only came in a 22" frame. My wife is 5' 5" and rides with a couple of inches of seatpost showing.

There were minor changes over the years. Reflector sizes and locations dictated by regs, rear fender paint, eyelets, fender stay mountings, brake pad mounting, shifter styles, grips, rims, cog sizes, chainwheels, etc. One could become a Tourist anorak if inclined.

I use searchtempest.com for searching craigslist. Looks like there are some out there but not local.

Sixty Fiver 08-04-13 08:54 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 15910441)
That was my first geared road bike...a 71 Glider with Huret Allvit, yes? It was stolen after a month and with the insurance, I got an Orbea with Zeus Alpha components. It all started right there. Mine was a nice steel blue.

I picked up some decent alloy 27's yesterday... basic 80's Suzue high flange hubs laced to Araya rims and spun up a 6 speed HG freewheel... the Svelto will not handle a 28 tooth cog so that is locked out and it is still a 5 speed in the rear.

Fit up was good and like all these old Raleighs I had to open up the front dropouts just a little (frame was built with 100mm spacing) to accept the modern axle... knocking weight off the wheels is always good but it really improved the braking and expect that it will be able to stop in the wet.

I will probably put an SA 5 speed hub on my next parts order. :)

erileykc 08-05-13 08:15 AM

I envy you the brass Raleigh Heron emblem on the head tube. By 1980 when I bought my Tourist they had sunk to a decal there.


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 15911174)
I finally got the bike I've wanted for the past 45 years, since the days of working at AR Adams Cycle - a '73 Raleigh Tourist (AW hub is stamped 11 72) ...


PalmettoUpstate 08-05-13 09:44 AM


Originally Posted by fixed1313 (Post 15882489)
I agree completely, just need the cash to do it. It will most likely be a Caradice bag, already need to order the long flap camper for another bike, will most likely put the Barley on this one. The canvas bag is really a handlebar bag that was on my winter commuter/drop bar MTB. Just looked the part and was in the shop already, and I needed a new seat more than a bag at the moment.

Yours looks great as well.

RE: SADDLE BAGS / [h=1]Banjo Brothers Minnehaha Canvas Bicycle Barrel Bag[/h]
Also consider this bag, Niagara and others carry it, and you can outfit two bikes for what you'd spend on the other bags you mention. [not that they aren't excellent] You can see a full set of pics at SirMike's blog here: http://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2013/...d-model-g.html

Sixty Fiver 08-05-13 01:31 PM

It is a nice day for some three speed love... heading out for a holiday pootle after swapping the 1950's Special bars to the '54 Raleigh and the Raleigh's 1970s GB bars to the 1970's Phillips.

It worked out very well methinks.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...rtspecial1.JPG

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...rtspecial2.JPG

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...rtspecial3.JPG

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...rtspecial4.JPG

PalmettoUpstate 08-05-13 02:13 PM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 15923123)
It was first produced in 1913 under a government contract and continued until 1985. It was also produced under license in factories all over the world. Some under the Raleigh brand as well as under other names. Apparently it is still be produced in Denmark under license by Raleigh DK. It supposedly was the single most produced model of bicycle in the world.

I also have an FG hub that I am considering converting to 5 speed :D That sounds interesting.



Aaron :)

Here's the link: http://www.raleighbikes.dk/tourist/

sykerocker 08-06-13 04:53 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 15928337)

Thank you. Quite fascinating. Not being able to read the language, I assume they've gone to coaster brake on the bike, as I'm not seeing any rod or cable setups? Also noticed the alloy cotterless crank. Love that chain guard, so glad they've come back into style.

Finally got the Tourist out yesterday evening for our weekend Ashland ride (it rained on Saturday for the third Saturday in a row, and we were getting downright desperate). Absolutely lovely bike for around town, although still geared a bit higher than I'd like with a 19t rear sprocket. May end up looking for a 23 yet. Next project is to get Maggie on a 3-speed, as she's not really taking to derailleurs all that well (right now she's riding my Montague folder). Probably going to put her on the Ranger (Philips) this coming Saturday night. Somehow I have a feeling she's going to be a lot more comfortable with an IGH bike for the kind of riding we do.

Also, need to find a B-72 or 66. That Rampar padded saddle is OK, but not what I remember a good Brooks to be.

fixed1313 08-06-13 05:02 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 15927167)
RE: SADDLE BAGS / Banjo Brothers Minnehaha Canvas Bicycle Barrel Bag


Also consider this bag, Niagara and others carry it, and you can outfit two bikes for what you'd spend on the other bags you mention. [not that they aren't excellent] You can see a full set of pics at SirMike's blog here: http://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2013/...d-model-g.html


Yeah, I had looked at those as well .............. Just not the look I am going for (not that what is on there is). I think I am in love with the Caradice stuff. :)

wahoonc 08-06-13 06:05 AM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 15930230)
Thank you. Quite fascinating. Not being able to read the language, I assume they've gone to coaster brake on the bike, as I'm not seeing any rod or cable setups? Also noticed the alloy cotterless crank. Love that chain guard, so glad they've come back into style.

Finally got the Tourist out yesterday evening for our weekend Ashland ride (it rained on Saturday for the third Saturday in a row, and we were getting downright desperate). Absolutely lovely bike for around town, although still geared a bit higher than I'd like with a 19t rear sprocket. May end up looking for a 23 yet. Next project is to get Maggie on a 3-speed, as she's not really taking to derailleurs all that well (right now she's riding my Montague folder). Probably going to put her on the Ranger (Philips) this coming Saturday night. Somehow I have a feeling she's going to be a lot more comfortable with an IGH bike for the kind of riding we do.

Also, need to find a B-72 or 66. That Rampar padded saddle is OK, but not what I remember a good Brooks to be.

Syke, swap the rear cog for a 22t you will be glad you did. That is usually the first modification I make to any Raleigh that passes through my hands. Get Maggie on an IGH and you will never look back. I bought my (new at the time) bride a nice GT Slipstream 21 speed. She rode it but was never really happy with it. About 6 years later we "won" a Raleigh Colt as a door prize at the ABCE Tour in MN. We added a little wicker basket and it fast became her favorite bike. She now has three Raleigh 3 speeds, I am starting the process to build her up an 8 speed, possibly a mixte. One thing my wife wants/needs is a coaster brake, so most of her bikes have been converted to S3C hubs, the original Colt came with a TCW III, not the best hub in the world, but it works. Our biggest challenge is getting bikes to fit us. I ride 64cm and she ride 42cm.:eek::roflmao2:

Not sure why the DK Raleighs don't come with rod brakes, probably a cost cutting measure. Though I have heard that Eastman of India parts are a perfect swap, but of pretty poor quality. Also you can have google translate websites for you.



Aaron :)

JBC353 08-06-13 07:05 AM

Shortly after giving my wife her Tourist I swapped out the 20t cog for a 22t. She did not like, complaining that the high gear was not high enough. She does not like to spin and I don't argue. The 22t will go on the '69 gents I am fixing up.

adventurepdx 08-06-13 12:57 PM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 15927167)
RE: SADDLE BAGS / Banjo Brothers Minnehaha Canvas Bicycle Barrel Bag...Also consider this bag, Niagara and others carry it, and you can outfit two bikes for what you'd spend on the other bags you mention. [not that they aren't excellent]

I own one of the Minnehaha bags and several Carradice ones as well. The Minnehaha ones aren't bad, they look appropriate, and yes, they are cheaper. But I feel it's definitely an example of "you get what you pay for", as the Minnehaha aren't nearly as rugged and well constructed as a Carradice. I look at Carradice bags as more of an investment. And even if you don't like it, they have a good resale value (just check out ebay for a used one!)

Sixty Fiver 08-06-13 01:12 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 15931857)
I own one of the Minnehaha bags and several Carradice ones as well. The Minnehaha ones aren't bad, they look appropriate, and yes, they are cheaper. But I feel it's definitely an example of "you get what you pay for", as the Minnehaha aren't nearly as rugged and well constructed as a Carradice. I look at Carradice bags as more of an investment. And even if you don't like it, they have a good resale value (just check out ebay for a used one!)

Hey dude... that Carradice on the Raleigh Sports came from you and believe you got it used and despite having developed a nice patina it is every bit as good as the new Carradice I bought.

PalmettoUpstate 08-06-13 01:15 PM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 15930340)
Not sure why the DK Raleighs don't come with rod brakes, probably a cost cutting measure. Though I have heard that Eastman of India parts are a perfect swap, but of pretty poor quality. Also you can have google translate websites for you.
Aaron :)

My theory is that they were going for improved braking but w/o talking to their design team who can say for sure. Also noted that most of the current DK Tourist models have internal drum up front; --one appears to have a disc. ALL appear to have a coaster brake on the back!

Noting that, I'm trying to figure out what is the black thing between the rear fender and the seat stays... this is best seen on the red bike at: http://www.raleighbikes.dk/tourist-de-luxe-dame/

Thoughts anyone?

Another point worth noting; the Men's Tourist Deluxe model, at least, offers 3, 5, & 7 speed IGH's: http://www.raleighbikes.dk/tourist-de-luxe-herre/

Aaron FWIW I pretty much trust Google about as far as I can throw 'em [use IXQUICK.COM!] but I must say that the drop down that you get when using CHROME that let's you translate the lingo is pretty cool. It sorta, sorta works on that DK Raleigh website - LOL.

adventurepdx 08-06-13 01:19 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 15931933)
Hey dude... that Carradice on the Raleigh Sports came from you and believe you got it used and despite having developed a nice patina it is every bit as good as the new Carradice I bought.

Yep, dude! That one I gave you I bought used. I own four Carradice right now and only one of them was purchased new. I've had repairs done to a couple but that's the beauty: you can repair these bags.

We have to be careful before this turns into a "For the love of English bike bags" thread...

PalmettoUpstate 08-06-13 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by gbalke (Post 15883046)
In case you are not aware, a British company called Wiggles is probably the best place to buy your Carradice bag(s) when it's time. I bought (2) Barley's from them each at about half of what I would have paid through a dealer here in the states and shipping was free. Current price for a Barley here is about $109.00 plus shipping. Wiggles price is $65.00 and shipping is free once you spend a total of $77.35. Here's a link for you:

http://www.wiggle.com/carradice-barley-saddle-bag/

Thanks for the link; good stuff!

PalmettoUpstate 08-06-13 01:32 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 15931857)
I own one of the Minnehaha bags and several Carradice ones as well. The Minnehaha ones aren't bad, they look appropriate, and yes, they are cheaper. But I feel it's definitely an example of "you get what you pay for", as the Minnehaha aren't nearly as rugged and well constructed as a Carradice. I look at Carradice bags as more of an investment. And even if you don't like it, they have a good resale value (just check out ebay for a used one!)

Yeah I'm all about buying quality where appropriate. I'll probably spring for the smallest Carradice for both my bride's and my own Sports.

On her DL-1, when I get to it and IF she isn't too vertically challenged to ride it, I'll probably do the same and it would be hanging from a B-18 "Lady" on that bike. [Thanks to Velouria for the heads-up on that perfect "piece of kit" for that particular machine!]

http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2009/...rooks-b18.html

Now if I could just find a DL-1 for myself....

SirMike1983 08-06-13 03:07 PM

The 22 tooth is my size of choice as well.

The Danish market is pretty conservative as bikes go. I'd call their bikes more "European City Models" in the Dutch mold than true rod brake roadsters at this point. I actually have a '65 Danish market model with rods. Some of them still carry drums, but they use cables now. It's more modern/easier to get parts/probably cheaper to produce. From a manufacturer standpoint cables are the way to go today.

http://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2012/...old-style.html

http://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2013/...t-bicycle.html

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XVlWdiv7gT...0/IMG_2951.JPG


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 15930340)
Syke, swap the rear cog for a 22t you will be glad you did. That is usually the first modification I make to any Raleigh that passes through my hands. Get Maggie on an IGH and you will never look back. I bought my (new at the time) bride a nice GT Slipstream 21 speed. She rode it but was never really happy with it. About 6 years later we "won" a Raleigh Colt as a door prize at the ABCE Tour in MN. We added a little wicker basket and it fast became her favorite bike. She now has three Raleigh 3 speeds, I am starting the process to build her up an 8 speed, possibly a mixte. One thing my wife wants/needs is a coaster brake, so most of her bikes have been converted to S3C hubs, the original Colt came with a TCW III, not the best hub in the world, but it works. Our biggest challenge is getting bikes to fit us. I ride 64cm and she ride 42cm.:eek::roflmao2:

Not sure why the DK Raleighs don't come with rod brakes, probably a cost cutting measure. Though I have heard that Eastman of India parts are a perfect swap, but of pretty poor quality. Also you can have google translate websites for you.



Aaron :)



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