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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

SirMike1983 08-19-17 05:39 PM

Yeah - that's the early post-war style "ball" oiler on the bottom bracket rather than the metal "flip top" oiler seen later in the 1950s. It's closer to a '54 rather than a '58. Does the front fork look like a replacement? Those slotted front drops look later to me. The earlier bikes had the round joint.

plympton 08-19-17 06:52 PM

I think the slot area is round. I'll have to google the differences and see. It's amazing that you guys can pick these things up. Shows your dedication. I'm all over the place each year i restore something different, can't settle on the one thing.

BigChief 08-19-17 07:35 PM

2 Attachment(s)
@SirMike1983 I'd like to ask a favor. On your 1958 Sports, does the head tube and seat tube lugs at the top tube joint look like this black one or this green one? Thanks

Attachment 576894

Attachment 576895

plympton 08-20-17 06:30 AM

1 Attachment(s)
again my apologies for the pic.Attachment 576948

gster 08-20-17 07:51 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19803040)
Sure. I wanted to recreate a bike I had as a teenager and always regretted selling. It had a non Raleigh fork and Schwinn front wheel. I replaced the wheel with a 40 dollar stay true. Not a bad wheel BTW. My original Rudge had flipped bars, no kit for fixing flats or kick stand. I did have to make some rather non scorcher changes to suit my older body like a 22T cog,tool kit, stand and seat with a central relief channel. Since this is a 21" frame, I had to use an extra length stem to get the leg extension and upper body balance I need for longer rides.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4324/...58cf37b7_k.jpgRudge Scorcher by Billy Bones, on Flickr

These could be twins
Modified Glider frame with stuff from the parts bin.
Attachment 576955

BigChief 08-20-17 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19805124)
These could be twins
Modified Glider frame with stuff from the parts bin.
Attachment 576955

Yes! It's nice to know there's another scorcher that needs upright bars. That doesn't take away from our status as disturbers of the peace!

3speedslow 08-20-17 02:06 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Had a crank spindle surprise when I was checking length. The original spindle length is 130. I was thinking that would be too long because this Rudge came with a double. So I put a ratty single ring crank on to see what the chainline would be and how much smaller a spindle I would need. Before the crank could line up with the pin slot it hit the BB. I thought this was strange until I retrieved the half steep crankset and realized the inner ring was only attached on the outer edge, no spider arms to support it.

So, instead of looking for a shorter length I had to go digging through the bins for some longer choices. I have come up with two, a 134 and 138.

When I find the correct crank for this Clubman conversion I will know which to use.

3speedslow 08-20-17 02:21 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Question for you all...

I have some very nice original HB tape that came on the Rudge which I might use again for it. Not quite sure if I might go with cotton. But for now I am doing a cleaning.

Instead of rain, we got a hot humid day so I hung the tape strips out over the bike stand and let them soften. Then I went at every cm with Clorox wipes front and back. Both strips are now in clean water soak. Came out nice!

My question, some areas have small rips along the edge. Has anyone used something to reinforce tape like this? I thought simple Scott tape on the back but if someone has a better solution or product to use, I am all eyes.

When I am finished I will stretch it over a roll and straighten out the kinks in it.

plympton 08-20-17 05:16 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19803951)
There's no doubt that this is an early 50s frame.

I just looked thru an on line pdf of both the 1951 and the 1954 Raleigh catalogs. The 54 catalog did not show a bike that would match. It does look like the 1951 Dawn Tourist. So maybe not a 54.

ascherer 08-20-17 06:58 PM

My honey and I took our Sports out for a roll through Manhattan, Queens and Roosevelt Island today.

Socrates Sculpture Park in Astoria:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4437/...e1f97221_b.jpg

gster 08-21-17 05:30 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19805271)
Yes! It's nice to know there's another scorcher that needs upright bars. That doesn't take away from our status as disturbers of the peace!

I like the look of the turned down bars but, like yourself prefer an upright riding position.
Perhaps these are Semi-Scorchers...
Attachment 577091
I'm having some trouble with this hub and no amount of adjusting seems to help.
A strange clicking and skip in second (N)
I'm going to swap it out with one that I know works properly and then see what happens.
Also going to try a 22T cog.
Despite having rebuilt 20-30 of these bikes, I've never had a hub apart.....
They've all responded well with a flush and cone adjustment.
I've got a loose hub to practice on first.

BigChief 08-21-17 06:23 AM

It was a beautiful day yesterday but I didn't ride. I used up my time off to drive 45 minutes away to follow up a craigslist ad. Been scanning for wrecked 50s Raleighs with no luck and ran across this. Couldn't pass it up for 50 bucks. No hub date, but I figure it's a 72 or 73. Nothing's bent, a few dents and rust spots on the mudguards, but it's in pretty decent shape. No kick stand. It must of had one, there's a few scratches in the paint, but the chain stays aren't crunched at all. Odd thing is the guy started to work on it. Put on new tires and laced a CR 18 rim on the AW hub then just wanted to be rid of it. Never hooked up the front brake or adjusted the hub. Before I take it apart, I want to try to work on removing the remains of a bike shop sticker. There's a big patch of paper right on the front of the seat tube and it looks shabby. Any tips for that?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4415/...71aecbf2_b.jpg72sports by Billy Bones, on Flickr

gster 08-21-17 06:53 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19806985)
It was a beautiful day yesterday but I didn't ride. I used up my time off to drive 45 minutes away to follow up a craigslist ad. Been scanning for wrecked 50s Raleighs with no luck and ran across this. Couldn't pass it up for 50 bucks. No hub date, but I figure it's a 72 or 73. Nothing's bent, a few dents and rust spots on the mudguards, but it's in pretty decent shape. No kick stand. It must of had one, there's a few scratches in the paint, but the chain stays aren't crunched at all. Odd thing is the guy started to work on it. Put on new tires and laced a CR 18 rim on the AW hub then just wanted to be rid of it. Never hooked up the front brake or adjusted the hub. Before I take it apart, I want to try to work on removing the remains of a bike shop sticker. There's a big patch of paper right on the front of the seat tube and it looks shabby. Any tips for that?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4415/...71aecbf2_b.jpg72sports by Billy Bones, on Flickr

Good score!
Re: sticker removal
Soap and water
Lighter fluid
Goo Gone

BigChief 08-21-17 07:47 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19806912)
I like the look of the turned down bars but, like yourself prefer an upright riding position.
Perhaps these are Semi-Scorchers...
Attachment 577091
I'm having some trouble with this hub and no amount of adjusting seems to help.
A strange clicking and skip in second (N)
I'm going to swap it out with one that I know works properly and then see what happens.
Also going to try a 22T cog.
Despite having rebuilt 20-30 of these bikes, I've never had a hub apart.....
They've all responded well with a flush and cone adjustment.
I've got a loose hub to practice on first.

I think you'll enjoy rebuilding AW hubs. No where near as difficult as reassembling a trigger shifter. Did you ever watch the 2 AW rebuild vids on youtube? One's an American and one's a Brit. The American one is a bit more complete. My only complaint is he uses a screwdriver to hold the cone while he tightens the lock nut, but I see you have proper cone wrenches. Sounds like your hub may need new pawl springs or maybe they're clogged up with dried up grease. Sometimes people grease these parts. They shouldn't. Check the condition of the pawls too.

gster 08-21-17 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19807149)
I think you'll enjoy rebuilding AW hubs. No where near as difficult as reassembling a trigger shifter. Did you ever watch the 2 AW rebuild vids on youtube? One's an American and one's a Brit. The American one is a bit more complete. My only complaint is he uses a screwdriver to hold the cone while he tightens the lock nut, but I see you have proper cone wrenches. Sounds like your hub may need new springs. Check the condition of the pawls too.

Yeah....
As suspected, the rear hub is at fault.
I swapped in a known good hub and everything is fine.
The faulty hub will be repaired as the wheel itself is very clean and true.
Thanks for the advice and I will have a go.....

Velocivixen 08-21-17 09:05 AM

@BigChief - what size is that green Sports? It's very pretty....;)

3speedslow 08-21-17 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19806985)
It was a beautiful day yesterday but I didn't ride. I used up my time off to drive 45 minutes away to follow up a craigslist ad. Been scanning for wrecked 50s Raleighs with no luck and ran across this. Couldn't pass it up for 50 bucks. No hub date, but I figure it's a 72 or 73. Nothing's bent, a few dents and rust spots on the mudguards, but it's in pretty decent shape. No kick stand. It must of had one, there's a few scratches in the paint, but the chain stays aren't crunched at all. Odd thing is the guy started to work on it. Put on new tires and laced a CR 18 rim on the AW hub then just wanted to be rid of it. Never hooked up the front brake or adjusted the hub. Before I take it apart, I want to try to work on removing the remains of a bike shop sticker. There's a big patch of paper right on the front of the seat tube and it looks shabby. Any tips for that?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4415/...71aecbf2_b.jpg72sports by Billy Bones, on Flickr

Nice, you got one of the 23" models. To take the sticker off just use the edge of a plastic card then clean with goo gone.

I vote 73. It has the new brake adjusters but the cool earlier crankset.

BigChief 08-21-17 10:33 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19807359)
@BigChief - what size is that green Sports? It's very pretty....;)

It's a 23". That's what motivated me to buy it. That and the green color. To me, some colors age better than others. I've always liked the way this green looks even if it's faded and beat up a bit.
I have a wheel question for you. The guy I bought it from laced up a CR 18 rim on the rear. The modern spoke heads don't sit flat against the flange since the radius of the bend is designed for fatter aluminum flanges. Do you think it would be OK to leave them as is or would you take the wheel apart and add washers to make the heads sit square to the flange?

Salubrious 08-21-17 01:39 PM

^^ OK as is, if all the CR18 wheels I've made are any judge.

markk900 08-21-17 01:51 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19808032)
^^ OK as is, if all the CR18 wheels I've made are any judge.

+1 - I haven't built up the CR18s I have but the others I made without spoke washers have been fine.

gster 08-21-17 05:13 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19807149)
I think you'll enjoy rebuilding AW hubs. No where near as difficult as reassembling a trigger shifter. Did you ever watch the 2 AW rebuild vids on youtube? One's an American and one's a Brit. The American one is a bit more complete. My only complaint is he uses a screwdriver to hold the cone while he tightens the lock nut, but I see you have proper cone wrenches. Sounds like your hub may need new pawl springs or maybe they're clogged up with dried up grease. Sometimes people grease these parts. They shouldn't. Check the condition of the pawls too.

As usual, BC was correct.
Upon disassembly, a seized pawl and broken/rusted spring were found....
Also a displaced sun gear pin.
Attachment 577235

Attachment 577237
While the parts soaked in de-greaser I went downtown (on a bike) and I bought some new springs.
Watched the video, cleaned and re assembled.
The ring gear wasn't seating properly on the planets and the spindle didn't seem true. In the end
I swapped in the guts from a '61 hub I had and now all is well.
Hard to believe that the performance of these hubs depends on a tiny spring...

3speedslow 08-21-17 05:49 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Most important part to a 3 speed. Just came in the mail from @clubman he also threw in a couple nice extras !

BigChief 08-21-17 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19808569)
Most important part to a 3 speed. Just came in the mail from @clubman he also threw in a couple nice extras !

Excellent stuff there. First class! Looks like this is going to be a great bike.

tricky 08-21-17 06:29 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19808486)
As usual, BC was correct.
Upon disassembly, a seized pawl and broken/rusted spring were found....
Also a displaced sun gear pin.
Attachment 577235

Attachment 577237
While the parts soaked in de-greaser I went downtown (on a bike) and I bought some new springs.
Watched the video, cleaned and re assembled.
The ring gear wasn't seating properly on the planets and the spindle didn't seem true. In the end
I swapped in the guts from a '61 hub I had and now all is well.
Hard to believe that the performance of these hubs depends on a tiny spring...

Are the springs just something you can buy at a hardware store?

3speedslow 08-21-17 07:53 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19808615)
Excellent stuff there. First class! Looks like this is going to be a great bike.

Thanks, I am excited about it. Don't know how long till it comes together but I see it being a great bike for the early fall.
I will get over to the LBS and see if I can raid their stock of spoke washers so I can start building the wheel.

Hopefully when Clubman comes back from vacation I can send another shop list to him.

Velocivixen 08-21-17 09:47 PM

@BigChief - Sugar Wheel Works in Portland where I've taken classes and where I buy all my supplies, said I'd be finterested be with no washers, so I've never used them.

ryansu 08-21-17 10:10 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19807552)
It's a 23". That's what motivated me to buy it. That and the green color. To me, some colors age better than others. I've always liked the way this green looks even if it's faded and beat up a bit.
I have a wheel question for you. The guy I bought it from laced up a CR 18 rim on the rear. The modern spoke heads don't sit flat against the flange since the radius of the bend is designed for fatter aluminum flanges. Do you think it would be OK to leave them as is or would you take the wheel apart and add washers to make the heads sit square to the flange?

+! on the Green 23" I would love to find one of those. I had a 23" blue LTD Raleigh 3 speed that I sold during some economic hard times.

BigChief 08-22-17 04:29 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19809055)
@BigChief - Sugar Wheel Works in Portland where I've taken classes and where I buy all my supplies, said I'd be finterested be with no washers, so I've never used them.

Ah good. We have a consensus here. I'm happy to leave it alone. The spoke heads don't sit nice and flat against the flange like the Raleigh laced front wheel and I wondered about it. Maybe the Raleigh over over over x3 pattern has something to do with that. Spoke tension is all over the place too. I'll just true it up and call it good. Thanks all.

arty dave 08-22-17 04:59 AM

Warning! I threw a bunch of small parts from a B33 saddle into a rust remover/converter bath, and added the lock surround and lock pin from the fork lock. Do not soak the fork lock surround in phosphoric acid! It must be cast from zinc or pot metal or something? I had the parts soaking for an hour unattended and came back to lots of foaming and a noticeable etch around the edges of the chrome plate of the lock surround. I think if it had soaked another hour the plating may have started to lift. It cleaned up the small parts nicely though :) Here's a before shot - I'll take a shot tomorrow of the etched lock surround. All of the bigger saddle frame parts are soaking in vinegar overnight.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4437/...cf66d5a6_c.jpgIMG20170820173706 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4413/...c5d57d2e_c.jpgIMG20170822173219 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

There were finally some dry and wind free days to spray some primer coats on the frame and forks of the DL-1. I'm glad I fully stripped it - there was a lot of rust under the paint - at least 50% of the frame/forks. I treated it with the phosphoric acid as a surface prep/etch and then 2 coats of gal primer. I'll take off the fuzz and do a final coat of flat primer, sand smooth, then paint black. Also had to de-rust and paint the inside of the front rim. Still waiting for the spokes to arrive.

I have a question - I want to touch up the paint a little on the SA shifter and the Raleigh headbadge - any suggestions on how to?

gster 08-22-17 06:59 AM

Hubba Hubba
 
2 Attachment(s)
On reflection, this hub has never worked properly. It's stamped '71 and I'm pretty sure it came off an old CCM Galaxie years ago. I kept it because the rim was clean and the wheel was true.
Attachment 577331
The loose pin holding the sun gear appears to have been this way for a long time and I can imagine the effect could be to distort the axle over time.
It was a frustrating day spent figuring it out but at least I learned how to service a hub properly....

Attachment 577332


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