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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Cute Boy Horse 10-24-17 05:49 AM

I found the easiest, no fuss solution was a pair of weinmann 730s

nlerner 10-24-17 06:14 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19948837)
I think I've answered my own question with these things...
Cable Knarps.
Attachment 585698

Cable knarps do the job. Iíve also had success with crimping a spoke nipple on the original cable end with a Bell Systems crimper, an idea I got from @rhm.

Salubrious 10-24-17 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19948787)
Has anyone come up with an elegant fix for adapting new brake cables to work with the old style calipers?
I've seen some rough solutions with a small nut and bolt but nothing that looks clean.
Those proprietary NOS cables are in short supply and often very expensive.

I've been swapping out the old calipers for the newer versions but would like to maintain originality where possible.

Not that far back on this thread I mentioned the use of a torch and solder which uses 95% antimony and 5% silver- that's how the original cables were made. I had to replace a frayed cable on my 1935 'Model Sports' which uses drum brakes front and rear. Usually the hardware is still serviceable even though the cable itself is not. So if you are careful with measurement of lengths, you can fabricate a cable from new materials easily enough.

gster 10-24-17 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19949279)
Not that far back on this thread I mentioned the use of a torch and solder which uses 95% antimony and 5% silver- that's how the original cables were made. I had to replace a frayed cable on my 1935 'Model Sports' which uses drum brakes front and rear. Usually the hardware is still serviceable even though the cable itself is not. So if you are careful with measurement of lengths, you can fabricate a cable from new materials easily enough.

Good advice from all.

browngw 10-24-17 01:50 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Confound all ye reckless 3speeders! All your talk of "scorchers" has me working on a 1972 Raleigh built Supercycle I picked up earlier this summer. Some sort of step through (relabelled Peugeot?) donated the unique bars. The mudguards were cleaned and straightened and copious amounts of surface rust cleaned off. A Japanese front wheel was available so it was installed. The Schwalbe Delta Cruisers are overkill, but were attained for a reasonable $40.

gster 10-24-17 02:18 PM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by browngw (Post 19950051)
Confound all ye reckless 3speeders! All your talk of "scorchers" has me working on a 1972 Raleigh built Supercycle I picked up earlier this summer. Some sort of step through (relabelled Peugeot?) donated the unique bars. The mudguards were cleaned and straightened and copious amounts of surface rust cleaned off. A Japanese front wheel was available so it was installed. The Schwalbe Delta Cruisers are overkill, but were attained for a reasonable $40.

I've always liked those gold Supercycles.
The bars and grips look like old Bridgestones.
Is there a red reflector in the ends?
Bridgestones were also sold under the Supercycle name.
Attachment 585796

Attachment 585797

Attachment 585798

browngw 10-24-17 02:42 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gster (Post 19950140)
I've always liked those gold Supercycles.
The bars and grips look like old Bridgestones.
Is there a red reflector in the ends?
Bridgestones were also sold under the Supercycle name.
Attachment 585796

Attachment 585798



The grips are labelled Bridgestone and do have the reflector in the end. The donor bike had CLB brakes and Solida cranks which led me to believe it was not Japanese. Perhaps the originals were drops and later changed to Bridgestone.


I have a '76 Supercycle Excalibur made by Bridgestone. It is a wonderful ride and one of my all time favorite bikes.

johnnyspaghetti 10-24-17 04:13 PM

I'm getting Schorcher embemed on my brain, will these handle bars be appropriate? This is a good complete bike the neighbor wheeled out to her trash cans so it needs to come apart.

I don't even know what a Scorcher is...

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...8544-local3&zw

BigChief 10-24-17 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 19950051)
Confound all ye reckless 3speeders! All your talk of "scorchers" has me working on a 1972 Raleigh built Supercycle I picked up earlier this summer. Some sort of step through (relabelled Peugeot?) donated the unique bars. The mudguards were cleaned and straightened and copious amounts of surface rust cleaned off. A Japanese front wheel was available so it was installed. The Schwalbe Delta Cruisers are overkill, but were attained for a reasonable $40.

That is sharp. I love it. I've been building an appreciation for these gold bikes lately. Makes a fine scorcher!

plympton 10-24-17 04:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Just an hour on the bikes today. Cleaned a few parts. I need a tool and I don't know what to ask for. How do I disassemble this hub? I got the outer ring off ok but the secondary ring with two slots opposite each other. It's a single speed which I'm not going to use but i want to rebuild it anyway. Is it also threaded left and what,s the tool?
Attachment 585814 This is a google image, mine still has the spokes behind the chain ring.

BigChief 10-24-17 05:05 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19950398)
I'm getting Schorcher embemed on my brain, will these handle bars be appropriate? This is a good complete bike the neighbor wheeled out to her trash cans so it needs to come apart.

I don't even know what a Scorcher is...

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...8544-local3&zw

It's just making a hot rod out of a utility bike. A bit like taking the family 51 Mercury, gutting the interior and painting it candy apple red.

clubman 10-24-17 05:09 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19950504)
Just an hour on the bikes today. Cleaned a few parts. I need a tool and I don't know what to ask for. How do I disassemble this hub? I got the outer ring off ok but the secondary ring with two slots opposite each other. It's a single speed which I'm not going to use but i want to rebuild it anyway. Is it also threaded left and what,s the tool?
Attachment 585814 This is a google image, mine still has the spokes behind the chain ring.

You're in luck if your spokes are attached to a rim. It's near impossible to remove these suckers after someone has cut the hub out from the wheel. I've never seen a proper tool for it but I've seen a lot of damaged freewheels after ham-fisted use of a drift.

Anyone else?

johnnyspaghetti 10-24-17 05:53 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19950523)
It's just making a hot rod out of a utility bike. A bit like taking the family 51 Mercury, gutting the interior and painting it candy apple red.

I guess I'v kinda been getting it all along then. Wheels are turning in my head.

thumpism 10-24-17 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19950504)
Just an hour on the bikes today. Cleaned a few parts. I need a tool and I don't know what to ask for. How do I disassemble this hub? I got the outer ring off ok but the secondary ring with two slots opposite each other. It's a single speed which I'm not going to use but i want to rebuild it anyway. Is it also threaded left and what,s the tool?
Attachment 585814 This is a google image, mine still has the spokes behind the chain ring.

I would try some of the old SunTour 2-prong removers, but nothing will work unless you plan to trash the hub during the removal process. What you might be able to do is lace it up with spokes only on the other (the non-freewheel side) where you can get the spokes through the spoke holes. Use every other hole in the rim of choice and once tensioned up you can use the rim for leverage when the remover tool is in place.

3speedslow 10-24-17 06:37 PM

@browngw

Nice looking golden scorcher project! I think you will be pulled into the rebel trap! Are you feeling reckless yet?

plympton 10-24-17 06:37 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Sooo, lace it back on to the rim and buy that 2 prong tool and maybe?
A couple of more questions about spokes. I removed the spokes from a single speed hub, a 3 speed hub and a front hub and all the spokes are the same length, 284mm. I can't find this length for sale with a quick search. The spokes off the 3 speed hub, 1949, seem to zincier (is that even a word). The nipples (spoke lugs) on the front wheel are longer then those on the 2 rear wheels. Any significance in that?
Attachment 585829

BigChief 10-24-17 07:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19950743)
@browngw

Nice looking golden scorcher project! I think you will be pulled into the rebel trap! Are you feeling reckless yet?

Yes!! A scorcher revival is in the air.

Attachment 585831

thumpism 10-25-17 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19950744)
Sooo, lace it back on to the rim and buy that 2 prong tool and maybe?
A couple of more questions about spokes. I removed the spokes from a single speed hub, a 3 speed hub and a front hub and all the spokes are the same length, 284mm. I can't find this length for sale with a quick search. The spokes off the 3 speed hub, 1949, seem to zincier (is that even a word). The nipples (spoke lugs) on the front wheel are longer then those on the 2 rear wheels. Any significance in that?
Attachment 585829

Zincier, I like it but I'd probably spell it zinc-ier, lest someone think it's French and pronounce it ZAN-see-yay.

Good shops usually have spoke threading tools and can make you any length you need. The different length nipples are probably different brands and that should make no difference as long as the threading is correct and you have enough thread engagement.

Lacing half a wheel definitely works. I've done it. The maybe part is whether any freewheel remover you find will engage properly and provide enough grip for you to break the thing loose.

gster 10-25-17 08:12 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19951367)
Zincier, I like it but I'd probably spell it zinc-ier, lest someone think it's French and pronounce it ZAN-see-yay.

Good shops usually have spoke threading tools and can make you any length you need. The different length nipples are probably different brands and that should make no difference as long as the threading is correct and you have enough thread engagement.

Lacing half a wheel definitely works. I've done it. The maybe part is whether any freewheel remover you find will engage properly and provide enough grip for you to break the thing loose.

That freewheel is about a $16.00 part new.
Is it worth the effort?

plympton 10-25-17 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19951586)
That freewheel is about a $16.00 part new.
Is it worth the effort?

I would agree. The tool to remove it $ and the effort. But it was really about the experience of rebuilding.

thumpism 10-25-17 10:03 AM

He may also want to salvage the hub, although there are ways to do this without rebuilding but which destroy the freewheel in the process. Hard to get them apart without damage unless you apply a little effort.

johnnyspaghetti 10-25-17 01:13 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Gee wizz what are the origins of a Royce Union, Are they a dept. store brand?. It looks English/Raleigh to me. I'm going to go get this one this weekend. I found some pennies they are burning a whole in my pocket. I'll see if I can get it for $40. The racks are too cool and the stick shift I have not seen before. It seems to be intact with everything and looks like it will clean up well. Small frame. Its been on CL for a while here.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/r...329084459.html

Attachment 585906
Attachment 585907

BigChief 10-25-17 01:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19952337)
Gee wizz what are the origins of a Royce Union, Are they a dept. store brand?. It looks English/Raleigh to me. I'm going to go get this one this weekend. I found some pennies they are burning a whole in my pocket. I'll see if I can get it for $40. The racks are too cool and the stick shift I have not seen before. It seems to be intact with everything and looks like it will clean up well. Small frame. Its been on CL for a while here.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/r...329084459.html

Attachment 585906
Attachment 585907

Lots of different manufacturers made bikes under the Royce Union badge. Some of the older ones are Raleigh made, but this one isn't. Personally, this isn't one I would go after. The market still has real English 3 speeds for dirt cheap if you have patience.
edit:
just an example. This bike was a craigslist find at $50. It had a lot of bugs to work out, but it was worth the effort in the end.

Attachment 585922

dweenk 10-25-17 01:59 PM

That looks like a Shimano 333 speed stick shifter. If you have problems with it or the hub contact me. I have a lot of Shimano hub parts and a used stick shifter for the cost of shipping.

gster 10-25-17 03:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19952416)
Lots of different manufacturers made bikes under the Royce Union badge. Some of the older ones are Raleigh made, but this one isn't. Personally, this isn't one I would go after. The market still has real English 3 speeds for dirt cheap if you have patience.
edit:
just an example. This bike was a craigslist find at $50. It had a lot of bugs to work out, but it was worth the effort in the end.

Attachment 585922

Yeah, I've really put the brakes on buying anything
A-not English
B-not a tall frame
I would make an exception for a Rudge, Philips, Robin Hood or a nice Dunelt.
I did fix up a nice Shimano 3 speed for a friend a few years ago.
My plan was to swap out the rear hub for an SA 3 speed
but once the bike was cleaned up I opted for originality and went with the 333.
Attachment 585933
The photo doesn't really do the colour justice.
https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...speed-project/

BigChief 10-25-17 08:25 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19952602)
Yeah, I've really put the brakes on buying anything
A-not English
B-not a tall frame
I would make an exception for a Rudge, Philips, Robin Hood or a nice Dunelt.
I did fix up a nice Shimano 3 speed for a friend a few years ago.
My plan was to swap out the rear hub for an SA 3 speed
but once the bike was cleaned up I opted for originality and went with the 333.
Attachment 585933
The photo doesn't really do the colour justice.
https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...speed-project/

Being 6 ft tall, I'm limiting future light roadster bikes to 23" also. However, with one exception. I'd be perfectly happy with a 21" for a scorcher build. Those long SunLite stems make all the difference. I see @browngw used one on his gold Super Cycle scorcher. You can set the same riding position as a tall frame and for some reason I don't understand, the resulting bike has a different feel than a 23" frame. A good one I think. I'm very pleased with the way my 21" Rudge scorcher turned out. It's a very fun ride.

browngw 10-25-17 09:14 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19953166)
Being 6 ft tall, I'm limiting future light roadster bikes to 23" also. However, with one exception. I'd be perfectly happy with a 21" for a scorcher build. Those long SunLite stems make all the difference. I see @browngw used one on his gold Super Cycle scorcher. You can set the same riding position as a tall frame and for some reason I don't understand, the resulting bike has a different feel than a 23" frame. A good one I think. I'm very pleased with the way my 21" Rudge scorcher turned out. It's a very fun ride.


You are right about the Sunlite stem @BigChief . I normally ride a 23" frame as well, but a 21" is fun if set up well. I picked up two Sunlite stems in Florida last winter. This one is a regular 22.2mm, the other was a 21.1mm for my '87 Renegade Ranger "gravel" bike.

campngolf 10-25-17 09:58 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19952602)
Yeah, I've really put the brakes on buying anything
A-not English
B-not a tall frame

What would be considered a tall Raleigh frame? What different size frames did these vintage bike come in?

As someone who is NOT vertically challenged (6'3") I need all the tallness I can get in a frame.

Cute Boy Horse 10-26-17 03:39 AM

Most years 26" wheel dawn/sports were 21" and 23", the 28" wheel Tourist was in 24" and 26".

In the mid 80s Raleigh modernised the dawn/sports models. Lug pattern the same as the contemporary bikes and they brought out a 25" frame size. They very quickly lost their unique parts in favour of cotterless cranks etc.

This is UK market at least.

BigChief 10-26-17 04:51 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by campngolf (Post 19953317)
What would be considered a tall Raleigh frame? What different size frames did these vintage bike come in?

As someone who is NOT vertically challenged (6'3") I need all the tallness I can get in a frame.

At 6'3", a DL-1 would be the English 3 speed for you. In the later 70s Raleigh did offer the gents model in 22" but the vast majority of the ones you'll find are 24" I'm especially fond of these bikes.

Attachment 586009


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