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w1gfh 04-08-11 06:32 PM

I'm about to buy a cone wrench set to make an adjustment to the back hub on the old Raleigh Sports (crank turns while the bike walks). Are they standard size, or do I need a special vintage Raleigh size?

Amesja 04-08-11 06:38 PM

15mm and 17mm if I recall correctly.

wahoonc 04-08-11 07:32 PM


Originally Posted by w1gfh (Post 12474356)
What are those square white areas on the front forks? I saw similar reflective(?) areas on the forks of a 1965 Sports/Colt frame I had.

Those look like they may have been added by a PO. There was a "kit" that was put out at some point to add a piece of white reflective tape to each side of the front fork on all Raleigh bikes to meet some standard. I have a copy of the directions somewhere.

Aaron :)

gna 04-08-11 08:04 PM


Originally Posted by w1gfh (Post 12479727)
I'm about to buy a cone wrench set to make an adjustment to the back hub on the old Raleigh Sports (crank turns while the bike walks). Are they standard size, or do I need a special vintage Raleigh size?


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12479753)
15mm and 17mm if I recall correctly.

Are you sure? I thought the front hub cone takes a 15mm and the SA hub takes a 16mm...I'll have to go look.

Doohickie 04-08-11 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by w1gfh (Post 12464814)
That Batavus looks bulletproof. Meanwhile, it's funny to think these guys probably made my bike.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/...45fea231fd.jpg
Raleigh Factory, Radford, Nottingham, 1966

That's when my DL-1 was built. It has a 65 12 date code on the AW hub.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/DSC00040.jpg

Amesja 04-09-11 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 12480101)
Are you sure? I thought the front hub cone takes a 15mm and the SA hub takes a 16mm...I'll have to go look.

I just checked and I was wrong above. The wrenches needed are 15mm and 16mm.

I know I did a bike very recently with a 15/17 combo though because I remember being surprised about it because 17mm isn't that common. Perhaps it was the Shimano 3S I did the other week. I must have gotten the two mixed up.

The Park cone wrenches come 13-14 and 15-16 which is an issue unless you also have the 15-16 combination as you can't use both sides of the wrench at both times. It is nice that they have this selection so you don't have to buy a whole second set of the Park 13-14 & 15-16 wrenches

You really do not need the 17-18mm wrench as those are pretty darn rare in my experience. When you do run into the rare 17mm it is usually on the outside anyhow and you can mostly get away with using a regular wrench on the outside unless you are must adjust the cone while on the bike. Even so, you can buy all four of the wrenches on Amazon for under $30 shipped via that link I gave above.

if you buy cone wrenches stay away from the Avenir set. They seem like a great deal for 2 matching multi-wrenches but I've got a set of those and they are almost totally worthless. If a cone is even remotely tight the wrenches will strip getting it loose. I never over-tighten them when assembling so they are fine for that IMHO but you can't use them to take off old cones that have been on a long time or have been over-tightened from the factory. That afore-mentioned Shimano 3S was so tight that I almost killed my 15mm and was using a standard 17mm on the outside. That Avenir combo cone system wouldn't have lasted a second.

Sixty Fiver 04-09-11 09:35 AM

It is properly called a spanner and the rear hub cone tool looks like this... and is 16mm.

http://budgetbicyclectr.com/media/ca...file_78_16.jpg

Amesja 04-09-11 09:55 AM

Silly Brits ;)

Spanner:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_Y...12/Spanner.JPG

16mm Cone Wrench:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_Y..._tzc/DCW-2.jpg

gna 04-09-11 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 12481592)
It is properly called a spanner and the rear hub cone tool looks like this... and is 16mm.

http://budgetbicyclectr.com/media/ca...file_78_16.jpg

I'm going to try to find one of those. FWIW, the thinner, the better on an SA Hub--can be tough to get it in and out.

Amesja 04-09-11 10:51 AM

The PCW-2 cone wrenches from park are plenty thin. I've never had an issue with them.

Although I wouldn't turn down the antique wrench if it were a gift. I appreciate antiques and curiosities. I might even use it -but is not necessary.

w1gfh 04-10-11 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12481501)
The Park cone wrenches come 13-14 and 15-16 which is an issue unless you also have the 15-16 combination as you can't use both sides of the wrench at both times. It is nice that they have this selection so you don't have to buy a whole second set of the Park 13-14 & 15-16 wrenches

I got the Park 15/16 and 17/18 before I read the replies here. So...for best effect, I'll need to use two 16mm wrenches at the same time?

Amesja 04-10-11 10:24 AM

You really need 3 wrenches:

13/15
13/14
15/16

17mm is rarer but it does show up every once in a while on the outside locknut and often you can get away with using a regular 17mm as long as you are not trying to adjust it in the frame.

Often you might need two 15mm wrenches at the same time, or a 14 & 15, or a 13 & 15. Having those three different wrenches I listed above will cover you for most situations. I don't think I've ever run into a 14/14 combo or 16/16.

If you only have the 13/14 and 15/16 and you run into a situation where you need both 15's or both 13's you can't use both at the same time without cutting the wrench in half. The 13/15 comes in handy.

If you buy them all on amazon at the same time you can combine shipping (which runs nearly as much as each wrench itself.)

gna 04-10-11 10:35 AM


Originally Posted by w1gfh (Post 12485448)
I got the Park 15/16 and 17/18 before I read the replies here. So...for best effect, I'll need to use two 16mm wrenches at the same time?

You're trying to adjust an SA hub right? You can get by with one.
Set the right cone first, then the left: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-...coneadjustment

Sheldon's page seems to have changed--I tighten the right cone down finger tight, then back off 1/4 to 1/2 turn so the lockwasher lines up with the flats. Lock it down, then do the left cone.

w1gfh 04-10-11 10:58 AM

Yes, it's an SA hub. I only did the non-drive side, and was able to back off 1/2 turn on the cone/washers/nut arrangement as a whole. It really made a big difference. (PS: I think my LBS is to blame for the previous too-tight adjustment. I first noticed it after I had them put on new tires.)

Amesja 04-10-11 10:59 AM

I've never had luck with adjusting the tension off the bike with the SA hubs. Either it is unacceptably loose or tight enough to drag the pedals. THe quickest/easiest method is with the wheel in the bike and the axle nut tightened down on the drive side. Adjust by taking up all the slack like a normal wheel and then test for pedal drag. Incrementally loosen the non-drive cone and re-test until the pedals stop dragging -stop.

Maybe I just suck at it.

I do use your method with the drive side though as it shows in the videos. Back off the driver cone no less than 1/4-turn or more than 1/2-turn before putting the clip on and tightening down the locknut.

w1gfh 04-10-11 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by w1gfh (Post 12485816)
(PS: I think my LBS is to blame for the previous too-tight adjustment. I first noticed it after I had them put on new tires.)

Today's smooth-as-silk ride included a stop outside the aformentioned "LBS"...

(Yes, that's a "Public" 3 speed next to the Raleigh)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5188/...ca78cfe2da.jpg
April 2011 by w1gfh, on Flickr

Sixty Fiver 04-10-11 03:00 PM

Once the right side bearing adjustment is set properly there is no adjustment needed and all future adjustments need to be done from the non drive side.

If the pedals are walking it is either a case of the bearings having excessive pre-load or a chain that is too tight... have also noted that with my AG and generator there is a little more drag and a little occasional walking even when the bearings are set and the chain is properly tensioned.

Of course... this occasional walking happens at very cold temperatures and not on beautiful warm days like today when the butterflies are out and I am going out for a ride.

:)

It is a very international bike with a mix of Japanese, German, Czech, Taiwanese, and has the English parts where they are most important... in the drive end of things. The geometry is almost identical to a Sports and if anyone has wondered what a Sports would be like if it was built on better frame tubes (Ishiwata 022 butted) I can tell you that it is very nice indeed.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/2011shasta2.JPG

Schwinnsta 04-10-11 04:33 PM

A question about seat post clamp orientation. Is there a correct direction?

If the clamp is forward of the post, toward the front of the seat, there is more spring action which would be welcome on B72. It places the seat further back from the handlebars.

I would think that the having the clamp toward the rear of the seat is correct since the weight of the rider is more concentric with the post. But does it matter? Is it just preference? Should it be viewed as a seat adjusment. How did these come stock?

noglider 04-10-11 09:36 PM

Isn't spanner merely the British word for wrench?

I had thought that that size of the SA cone wrench was incompatible with metric sizes. I guess not, and I guess my metric cone wrenches are merely too thick for the SA hub. Well, good thing I have an antique Sturmey Archer cone WRENCH.

Sixty Fiver 04-10-11 10:17 PM

Spanner.

Spanner.

Spanner.

:)

Sixty Fiver 04-11-11 02:21 AM

And just because I can never stop tinkering... my Shasta 3 speed is now a 6 speed.

:)

http://ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/...dualdrive6.JPG

Sturmey Archer Dual Drive Conversion

Sixty Fiver 04-11-11 02:33 AM

P.S.

SPANNER.

P.S.S. The SA cone SPANNER is a speck smaller than 16mm but can't remember what the Imperial equivalent is... they are also very thin and a little fragile but are a great little SPANNER to have in your travelling kit.

AL NZ 04-11-11 03:02 AM

I love spanners

I knew a wrench once, she had great cones, but she just couldn't tighten my nuts properly

wahoonc 04-11-11 04:27 AM

The SA spanner is Whitworth, not metric. An inch equivalent is going to be either ?/32 or ?/64. I have a conversion table somewhere...

Aaron :)

Sixty Fiver 04-11-11 04:34 AM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 12488893)
The SA spanner is Whitworth, not metric. An inch equivalent is going to be either ?/32 or ?/64. I have a conversion table somewhere...

Aaron :)

It is close enough that a 16mm serves as a suitable replacement... the cones are hardened and the spanner will suffer before you damage the flats.

The small SA spanner is not very hard and we have gone through a few of them at the shop as they develop stress cracks.

sekaijin 04-11-11 05:49 AM

Pedal drag / pedals walking ... mine do that. Mental note, I will need to look into that.

Amesja 04-11-11 06:54 AM

Cone wrenches are an expendable item. They will tend to wear out over time if you use them a lot. That's because they are THIN and sometimes cone locknuts are really overtightened by ham-handed mechanics and assembly-line workers at the factories. This nut does NOT need to be that tight! Sometimes getting these nuts off will really pain you as you watch your tool getting rounded off but you have no choice here. Often you can use a regular wrench or a good 6-point deepwell socket on the locknut if the wheel is not in the frame. The inner cone flats will be captive inside the locknut so the cone wrench will fit tighter and not want to twist like the locknut wrench might if you don't hold it perfectly straight on the locknut without anything keeping it straight.

Like Noglider said it is harder to damage the cone wrench flats but sometimes locknuts are softer. The cone is hardened to keep the bearings from eating it.

The Park DCW-series (DCW stands for "Double-Sided Cone Wrench -by the way!) are one of the best cone wrenches for the price/value I've ever owned. Stay away from the Avenir 4-sided wrenches as they are nearly single-use disposable. Park benchtop professional cone wrenches are really nice but you'll probably need to buy 2 of each one and they are much more expensive. Like I said above you can probably get away with just owning 3 of the 4-wrench DCW set but if you have all 4 you pretty much have all the possibilities covered.

noglider 04-11-11 08:02 AM

I can't remember ever wrecking a cone wrench, and I've been working on bikes for 35 years now. I'm not saying I've never done it; I just don't remember doing it.

Sturmey Archer was smart. Their axle nuts are made of soft metal so that if you overtighten them, you'll wreck the nuts, not the axle. Perhaps the cone SPANNER (happy now?) doesn't destroy the cone. Are they still that smart now in Taiwan? It seems that they are at least as smart as the English company was and better, too.

Whitworth is a very different standard than Imperial, because the nominal size of a spanner is based on the outside diameter of the threaded portion of the bolt, not the head. So the sizes of the spanners are about half what you'd expect them to be.

Amesja 04-11-11 08:15 AM

The Asian heavy manufacturing tradition was quick to adopt the standard of sacrificial fasteners very early on. Japanese motorcycles way back in the 70's often used easy-to-strip fasteners that didn't destroy their components -especially on the engine cases.

Well-meaning home wrenches would complain about how easy the Phillips heads of fasteners on motorcycles easily stripped and would immediately go out and systematically replace most of the fasteners with hardened bolts from their local hardware store only to find out that they have a ruined engine case or lever perch down the road. This is still common today with pretty hardened anodized Allen-head kits to replace the OEM fasteners on most motorcycles and "performance" small Asian automobiles. You can find these just about everywhere online.

Most people have no clue how to properly torque fasteners and many people think that the tighter you make something the better it is. Softer fasteners are used for a reason...

w1gfh 04-11-11 08:29 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Now that I have the cones straightened out, I need to do something about the rust spots on the Raleigh's steel rims. There is only one (attached pic) really bad one, and I'd like to prevent it from getting any worse. From reading the thousands of forum posts on this subject, the methods seem to be (a) WD-40 and steel wool, or (b) vinegar and aluminum foil. Thoughts?

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=197422


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