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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

sd5782 01-27-19 11:07 AM

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f404a13261.jpg

Dirty, but you get the idea. Seat in basket came installed. Basket was on front.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...62732c2ca1.jpg

NOS shift cable, and stickers
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a89579c662.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...449da8f3f6.jpg

Thumb shifter and different grips and accessory mirror

clubman 01-27-19 11:29 AM

I prefer your Huffy crankset to the typical generic crank on most other Raleigh rebrands. Probably a Nicklin. Nice bike.

gster 01-27-19 11:48 AM


Originally Posted by sd5782 (Post 20766483)
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f404a13261.jpg

Dirty, but you get the idea. Seat in basket came installed. Basket was on front.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...62732c2ca1.jpg

NOS shift cable, and stickers
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a89579c662.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...449da8f3f6.jpg

Thumb shifter and different grips and accessory mirror

I'm curious as to why there are 2 cable stops...

sd5782 01-27-19 12:03 PM

Guessed it to be all Raleigh
 

Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20766517)
I prefer your Huffy crankset to the typical generic crank on most other Raleigh rebrands. Probably a Nicklin. Nice bike.

I guess, not knowing things that the crank was just period for a 1964 Raleigh Sport with the cotter etc.

sd5782 01-27-19 12:10 PM

The other "cable stop" came on the bike also. Only the rear one has the cable stop in it. The front one is basically a cable clamp for 2 cables and keeps thinks solid and aligned. This is a 50 year old "rider" grade bike vs a collectable vintage piece of Raleigh eye candy.

clubman 01-27-19 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by sd5782 (Post 20766570)
I guess, not knowing things that the crank was just period for a 1964 Raleigh Sport with the cotter etc.

I think the vast majority came with this style of crank. Yours is more typical of Birmingham and other brands.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3b513700cd.jpg

BigChief 01-27-19 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by sd5782 (Post 20766232)
Yes, mine is a Huffeigh, and nearly identical to the black one pictured by Adventurepdx. I knew it was a Raleigh actually, but didn't think the Huffy branded ones were as desirable in the collecting world, and hence my reluctance to pay too much. The condition is very similar to the one pictured. It had a cheap "Persons" 80s tan triangular compact springer seat similar in style to the two tone one pictured. Will try to get a couple pics up soon too.

Slowride is also correct about seeing the bike listed for sale. It was posted for months with no takers, and did have the basket on the front which interfered greatly with the cables. I was able to engineer the basket to the rear. The twist grip shifting worked poorly. I was able to get a nice vintage SA thumb shift and a NOS shift cable. One NOS brake cable too. I did manage to find a very nice vintage B72 saddle for it, but haven't ridden on it much yet. Pics soon.

This is a nice bike and a good deal at 100. Actually, none of our English roadsters are very desirable in the collectors world and we're not unhappy about that. Very good job replacing the twist grip. Those are exactly the correct grips and shifter for 1965. I also prefer this chainring to the standard Raleigh type. Sometimes we see Birmingham style parts in the early 60s Raleigh made bikes. I assume that's because Tube Industries which already owned the Birmingham makers, bought out Raleigh in 1960 and Raleigh used some left over parts on it's re-badged models.

markk900 01-27-19 03:02 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20766517)
I prefer your Huffy crankset to the typical generic crank on most other Raleigh rebrands. Probably a Nicklin. Nice bike.

I too like this crank, and thought it was a Nicklin but the pattern is actually quite close to the Brampton style (2 V’s point to point vs Nicklin “star”).

sd5782 01-27-19 04:49 PM

So I assume those cranks come apart like the others? From what I read, the cottered attached crank arms are stubborn. I am not sure when I will attempt some bearing lube attention. Front wheel a bit out of true, and steering bearings a bit stiff too. Vacation in a couple weeks, so maybe if I get bored. I may try some penetrating oil on the cotters for a couple weeks.

This bike has the “John Bull” brake pads on it which may be original. One thing I did was to put a bigger rear sprocket on after reading about that here. Quite a riding improvement for an old guy. The tires are checked and soon need replaced too. I would like to see the return of some warm weather though.

noglider 01-27-19 09:11 PM

Very nice work, @sd5782. Welcome to bikeforums.

oldveloman 01-28-19 06:23 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20758603)
Up until the 90's there we're many Euro manufacturers using cadmium plating, providing good resistance to oxidation. BMW used it on all their exposed steel (motorcycle) hardware. Maybe SA/Raleigh used it too? It's banned now.

Cadmium plating was used extensively and offers good resistance to corrosion indeed.
I use Alu-Zinc spraycans to restore worn-off cadmium plated parts. Used it on spokes, bolts, etc., both on bicycles and motorcycles and it lasts for many, many years.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bbb3adde34.jpg

This is the brand of Alu-Zinc I use
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7320ec8f77.jpg

While restoring my daughter' s Honda P50 moped about 10 years ago, the only NOS spokes I could find were priced at 5€ each, so I decided to forge them myself. To prevent them from rusting, I sprayed them with Alu-Zinc. After all those years, they' re still as new... ( Photo taken during restoration )

Peter

BigChief 01-28-19 06:58 AM

That's interesting. I'm not familiar with that product. I've seen plenty of aluminum paint, but in my experience it's not as durable as colored paint.

BigChief 01-28-19 07:33 AM


Originally Posted by sd5782 (Post 20766956)
So I assume those cranks come apart like the others? From what I read, the cottered attached crank arms are stubborn. I am not sure when I will attempt some bearing lube attention. Front wheel a bit out of true, and steering bearings a bit stiff too. Vacation in a couple weeks, so maybe if I get bored. I may try some penetrating oil on the cotters for a couple weeks.

This bike has the “John Bull” brake pads on it which may be original. One thing I did was to put a bigger rear sprocket on after reading about that here. Quite a riding improvement for an old guy. The tires are checked and soon need replaced too. I would like to see the return of some warm weather though.

These cottered cranks are one of those situations where having the specialized tools is almost essential. It is possible to get by without them. I did for years, but wrecking cotters meant only a trip to the local bike shop with 2 dollars in hand. Now, the only source I know of for quality cotters with the proper Raleigh taper is Bikesmith. Replacing the cotters is also best done with a press. Even setting the adjustment is a 3 handed operation if you need to tighten the lock ring with a hammer and punch while holding the adjustable cup in place with pliers. Then, there is the rare instance of stuck cotters. In my experience I'll guess it's a one in 10 chance, but it happens. Obviously a problem for anyone who doesn't plan on servicing a bunch of cottered cranks. You do have the option of working some oil into the bearings by pouring some down the seat tube or hammering the cotters out and hope for the best.

sd5782 01-28-19 11:01 AM

Thanks Big Chief. I am fairly handy, but will surely make the cotters the last thing I would "maybe" do. They spin nicely now and probably better left alone.

Salubrious 01-28-19 04:25 PM


Originally Posted by sd5782 (Post 20768015)
Thanks Big Chief. I am fairly handy, but will surely make the cotters the last thing I would "maybe" do. They spin nicely now and probably better left alone.

The crank is the first thing I do. In a way, its the heart of the bike. Usually what I find is that the bearings have seen no attention since the bike was new and so the only grease left is hardened and caked. Despite that the crank might seem to be OK, but after cleaning the cups and especially cleaning each bearing, it works a lot better. I've seen bottom bracket axles literally broken in two because of a lack of bearing grease. So its worth doing. Once you get the hang of the cotter press, you'll like how easy it is to set up a cottered crank.

Slowride79 01-28-19 04:57 PM

Cotter pin press
http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/index.html

you will also needpark tool hcw-5 for bb lock ring and hcw-11 for cups. Amazon for those. Fixed cups are a bear but you can leave in or get the bikesmith tool for that too.

As mentioned this is really the first thing along with all other bearings that should be cleaned /replaced /repacked with new wheel bearing grease. 9 times out of 10 they've never been serviced . It will transform the bike from a creaking and clunking contraption to smooth running machine!

gster 01-28-19 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by sd5782 (Post 20766956)
So I assume those cranks come apart like the others? From what I read, the cottered attached crank arms are stubborn. I am not sure when I will attempt some bearing lube attention. Front wheel a bit out of true, and steering bearings a bit stiff too. Vacation in a couple weeks, so maybe if I get bored. I may try some penetrating oil on the cotters for a couple weeks.

This bike has the “John Bull” brake pads on it which may be original. One thing I did was to put a bigger rear sprocket on after reading about that here. Quite a riding improvement for an old guy. The tires are checked and soon need replaced too. I would like to see the return of some warm weather though.

As Big C noted, pouring some heavy grade oil (80/90) down the seat tube will offer some temporary relief.

Put a rag under the BB and the excess will seep out.

sd5782 01-28-19 05:18 PM

Did a search
 

Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20768598)
The crank is the first thing I do. In a way, its the heart of the bike. Usually what I find is that the bearings have seen no attention since the bike was new and so the only grease left is hardened and caked. Despite that the crank might seem to be OK, but after cleaning the cups and especially cleaning each bearing, it works a lot better. I've seen bottom bracket axles literally broken in two because of a lack of bearing grease. So its worth doing. Once you get the hang of the cotter press, you'll like how easy it is to set up a cottered crank.


Nice info to get me going. Did a search for a cotter press, and a tutorial came up on modifying a Harbor Freight chain breaker. I have one of those. Well that might be the ticket. Thanks much

BigChief 01-29-19 05:20 AM

Another thing that is usually in desperate condition are the bearings in the pedals.These are the same 5/32" that are used in the headset, so plan on an extra 44 of em for the pedal rebuild.

sd5782 01-29-19 06:53 AM

all sounds fun
 

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20769251)
Another thing that is usually in desperate condition are the bearings in the pedals.These are the same 5/32" that are used in the headset, so plan on an extra 44 of em for the pedal rebuild.

You guys are setting me up for lots of work. I do have the Harbor Freight chain breaker for the cotters. I have a couple C spanners from various sources too. One pedal is stiff, as are the steering head bearings. Vacation next week, so down into the warm basement with the old Huffeigh.

When I was a kid (born in 1957) growing up in a small NW Ohio town (Fremont) it was pretty much fatter tire bikes. 10-speeds were pretty rare and exotic in the late 60s. A friends grandfather had a black 3-speed with twist grip shifting. It rode fast and was "different". I moved up to a 24" Sears banana seat 5 speed with stick shift as I couldn't afford the Schwinn. That 24" was a fast bike bike for a 10 year old kid.
The Huffeigh I just got is quite interesting, coming from a simpler era. Fun stuff.

BigChief 01-29-19 10:15 AM

I'm a few years older than you. Back when I was around 10, a few friends and I developed an interest in racing bicycles. Of course, on a paperboy budget we wern't going to be buying a racing bike...but we could find old rusty English 3 speeds for next to nothing or even free on trash day. Strip off mudguards, chainguards kickstands, flip the handle bar around and bingo...racing bikes!. Later, I spent many years riding 10 speed touring bikes, but I never lost my fascination with the old fashioned 3 speeds. Now, all these years later I spend most of my riding time on old roadsters I've fixed up. It's a wonderful hobby.

Ged117 01-29-19 11:04 AM

My reactivation of the 1950 Sports is proceeding well. I've cleaned up and repacked the front hub with fresh bearings and grease, and polished the chrome. New Panaracer tire and tube installed (I'm doing the wheels and hubs first because I don't own a bike stand - a birthday request for this year I hope). I also rebuilt the pedals with new bearings and grease, but they still need a little adjustment of the cones I think. How ought they to spin? For the BB, I poured some 5W30 down the seat tube since the little spring loaded oiler is tiny and I don't own a needle oil gun. Nobody in town has a cotter press, and I don't want to pay Bikesmith shipping (almost $40 US to Canada on top of the currency difference for the USD$60 tool is a no go for a tool I'll use once or twice every 15 years). Perhaps I should use a heavier weight oil for the BB? I've got some 3 in 1 blue label 20W for the AG once it is cleaned up.

My original question is this: I think I'm missing the headset wedge. It isn't connected to the top screw. Perhaps it has fallen down inside? The headset was my next section to tackle after I clean up the rear wheel and service the AG.

Thanks all.

Salubrious 01-29-19 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by sd5782 (Post 20769305)
When I was a kid (born in 1957) growing up in a small NW Ohio town (Fremont) it was pretty much fatter tire bikes. 10-speeds were pretty rare and exotic in the late 60s. A friends grandfather had a black 3-speed with twist grip shifting. It rode fast and was "different". I moved up to a 24" Sears banana seat 5 speed with stick shift as I couldn't afford the Schwinn. That 24" was a fast bike bike for a 10 year old kid.
The Huffeigh I just got is quite interesting, coming from a simpler era. Fun stuff.

The history is something to keep in mind.

The SA 3-speed hub was invented in the first few years of the 20th century. It was replaced by the type K about 1920 which was in turn replaced by the AW hub about 1939 or so. The French on the other hand had developed something called a 'derailleur' some years before the war but the simple fact was if you wanted reliable wide range shifting, the SA hubs were the only game in town worldwide for over 50 years. They were not eclipsed until Campagnolo introduced the first parallelogram derailleurs in the early 1950s. In England, cars and motorbikes were expensive, so 3-speeds saw a lot of use and there were club rides that gathered many cyclists to tour the countryside. So bikes like the one you're working on were not considered toys- they were serious reliable transportation.

I have a pair of Humber Sports that were purchased by a couple in Minnesota who flew to the UK for their honeymoon in 1951, where they proceeded to put over 3000 miles on the bikes touring the British Isles that summer. They then brought them home. Don't let the flat (North Road) handlebars fool you- these bikes are very practical transportation; the most miles made in one year by one person was done on a three speed sometime in the 1930s or 1940s, not broken until just the last 2 or 3 years.

BigChief 01-29-19 12:34 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20769625)
My reactivation of the 1950 Sports is proceeding well. I've cleaned up and repacked the front hub with fresh bearings and grease, and polished the chrome. New Panaracer tire and tube installed (I'm doing the wheels and hubs first because I don't own a bike stand - a birthday request for this year I hope). I also rebuilt the pedals with new bearings and grease, but they still need a little adjustment of the cones I think. How ought they to spin? For the BB, I poured some 5W30 down the seat tube since the little spring loaded oiler is tiny and I don't own a needle oil gun. Nobody in town has a cotter press, and I don't want to pay Bikesmith shipping (almost $40 US to Canada on top of the currency difference for the USD$60 tool is a no go for a tool I'll use once or twice every 15 years). Perhaps I should use a heavier weight oil for the BB? I've got some 3 in 1 blue label 20W for the AG once it is cleaned up.

My original question is this: I think I'm missing the headset wedge. It isn't connected to the top screw. Perhaps it has fallen down inside? The headset was my next section to tackle after I clean up the rear wheel and service the AG.

Thanks all.

I think you'll be fine just getting oil into the crank bearings. It's the next best thing to a full servicing. The most accurate way to test the cone adjustment is to mount the wheel in the frame and wiggle the rim. There should be a tiny bit of play noticeable as you move the rim side to side. That's why it's nice to have two cone spanners so you don't have to remove the wheel each time. You can just loosen the left side axle nut and make the adjustment. It's a good bet that the stem wedge fell down into the fork tube.

Ged117 01-29-19 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20769802)
I think you'll be fine just getting oil into the crank bearings. It's the next best thing to a full servicing. The most accurate way to test the cone adjustment is to mount the wheel in the frame and wiggle the rim. There should be a tiny bit of play noticeable as you move the rim side to side. That's why it's nice to have two cone spanners so you don't have to remove the wheel each time. You can just loosen the left side axle nut and make the adjustment. It's a good bet that the stem wedge fell down into the fork tube.

For the headset, I was thinking of using my 12" channel lock pliers with some duct tape wrapped around the teeth for the locking nuts. Is that common for folks without large Whitworth wrenches?


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