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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Lenton58 01-06-19 08:22 PM

Thanks jim ... great to see old friends and meet new ones. Other life-stuff had my attention for a time, but it didn't keep me out of the bike shed — and gluing cheaper tubs :)))

crank_addict 01-18-19 06:27 PM

Good read
https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/1...lar-tyres-dead

one from Atalanta Gomma (not 'gonna') of Vittoria
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b6f2d33ed9.jpg

Another from the savages batch. Not dead, yet ~

DiabloScott 01-18-19 07:33 PM


Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 20754458)

tldr:

tubeless or not, the future is unlikely to be glued on.

Road Fan 01-19-19 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20695102)
How long do people leave tires on unglued rims to stretch them? I am putting some Challenge Elite Pro 25mm on, they went on the unglued rim pretty easily. (easier that the tufo s33's which were my first foray into tubular), I did remember to be patient, put the tire on slowly pulling it out so to speak.

next up will be doing the glue, I have used tufo rim tape before.

the fun thing is that after I fix some broken spokes i will be able to do a direct compare between the Challenge Elite Pro 25mm, the tufo s33, and even some michelin pro4 clincher on the same bike

Sorry to be in here so late, but I did that just a few months ago. I have a pair of Gommitalia Espressos (well, two) and finaly decided with my wrist healed I can try to get thim on a rim. They were quite tight for a set of installed, tensioned GP-4s. I had to stretch them with my knee and shoulder for about 20 seconds, that that enabled me to get them on the rim. I inflated them to rated pressure and let them sit until more squishy, about two days. Inflated again, then I removed them , put on the Jantex rim tape, and they installed well.

So, to answer: a 20 second moderately forceful stretching with my body, then four days at pressure on the installed rim. I rarely do the body stretching, because once I heard the faintest sound of a tear while performing it. I didn't hear any thing from the tires, this time. I only chose to do a body stretch because I could not make it budge onto the rim with the usual "stretch it on" technique.

To add: I see what I did as stretching rather than aging. As far as I know I've never aged tires in any "formal" way. That means to me, I not only know when I put them up, but I know how to tell when to take them off. I have old tires that are unused (these Gommi's), but if aging requires having them on rim so that they become shaped to the form of a tire rather than a folded ribbon, I have not done that. I have also installed freshly bought tires. I can't say I see any difference in the behaviors of the tires. I am also doubly a sinner because I have a furnace with a large fan motor within 10 feet of the Bike Room ... mea culpa! But I have not observed a problem.

Road Fan 01-19-19 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by jimmuller (Post 20695637)
I usually just let them stretch for a day or two. If you can get them on and off the rim without too much trouble then doing the same once you have applied glue isn't so much harder.

As for glue, I finally ordered a small can of Vittoria mastic and bought a bunch of small inexpensive artist's brushes from the local hardwrae store. Applying glue to either tire or rim with a brush is so much easier than squeezing it out of a tube. I've re-used the brushes once or twice but will most often just toss it and use another. Prepping tires was never so easy.

I've always put my hand in a plastic sandwich bag, squeezed on some glue from a tube or spread some on with a popsicle stick dipped in a Vittoria can, then spread it with my Baggied finger.

mackgoo 01-19-19 02:43 PM


Originally Posted by luker (Post 1830374)
i usta really like the Tubular Bells album...(am I showing my age?)

What do you want from life? A Winabego...............

jcb3 01-28-19 06:26 PM

Tubasti Mystery Solved
 


Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch (Post 20568181)
White? Mine looks the same color as Continental glue. Maybe mine is an older or newer formula?

I got a case of Tubasti on ebay and one of the tubes contained brown runny liquid not the white thin chewing gum I’m used to. 2 others so far are the white gunk.

Emailed velox and got an immediate response! New formula. Should have known - french qc and all that






https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f5b003e5d.jpeg









https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...326608aa7.jpeg

squirtdad 01-29-19 05:19 PM

as I am getting closer to actually gluing tires and finishing my build, the question came to me: do people pre glue the spare when the spare is a new not mounted tubie (I have stretched it ) or not. If not, then is it just put it on and ride easy until a proper gluing can be done? (I have seen comments that many people use and old tire that is just old or old an repaired as a spare and as such has glue

jcb3 01-29-19 05:28 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20770264)
as I am getting closer to actually gluing tires and finishing my build, the question came to me: do people pre glue the spare when the spare is a new not mounted tubie (I have stretched it ) or not. If not, then is it just put it on and ride easy until a proper gluing can be done? (I have seen comments that many people use and old tire that is just old or old an repaired as a spare and as such has glue

pre glue

Salamandrine 01-29-19 05:35 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20770264)
as I am getting closer to actually gluing tires and finishing my build, the question came to me: do people pre glue the spare when the spare is a new not mounted tubie

I never have. Not necessary IMO. Whether or not it's got glue on it, you will have to be mellow around the corners until you get home and properly glue on a new or repaired tire. Then again, it probably will increase safety factor to pre-glue - if you don't mind the extra mess. Still won't be properly stuck on till you get home and do it right.

More often than not, the spare was a repaired tire that already had glue on it. That is correct.

Back in the days of Clement red, if you procrastinated for a while, often braking heat and residual glue would melt the old glue and stick the spare on pretty well, especially during summer.

DiabloScott 01-29-19 05:37 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20770264)
as I am getting closer to actually gluing tires and finishing my build, the question came to me: do people pre glue the spare when the spare is a new not mounted tubie (I have stretched it ) or not. If not, then is it just put it on and ride easy until a proper gluing can be done? (I have seen comments that many people use and old tire that is just old or old an repaired as a spare and as such has glue

Yeah, pre-glue... My spare is usually a used one, but I would never use a repaired tire.

The thing with installing a spare on the road though - pump it up as high as you can get... the pressure is what really holds it on... and take it easy around corners, and watch the downhill braking forces.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Gr...=w1024-h744-no

63rickert 01-29-19 05:51 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20770264)
as I am getting closer to actually gluing tires and finishing my build, the question came to me: do people pre glue the spare when the spare is a new not mounted tubie (I have stretched it ) or not. If not, then is it just put it on and ride easy until a proper gluing can be done? (I have seen comments that many people use and old tire that is just old or old an repaired as a spare and as such has glue

Yes, they do. Or not. Don't worry.

Two recent ones. Had a flat on a very fancy top end tire. Don't care to reveal the brand. When I started taking the tire off the rim it was OMG. The tire carcass was completely unattached to base tape. Base tape was quite solidly glued to rim but wasn't attached to tire any longer. I must have been riding a long time in that condition. Air pressure held it on. The valve stem was not even crooked.

The mechanic who told me this one asked me not to name names or publish on my blog (which there isn't). Bought a previously glued but not ridden silk CX tubular from the quiver of perhaps the senior luminary of American CX competition. Looked at base tape and it was a very basic glue job. The guy at the swap selling the tires was the mech who did the glue. He has a lot of tires to glue and he keeps it basic. One, two, three, done. He asked how long I'd been gluing tires. Since 1967. OK, he says, you might understand. I tell people how I glue and they never believe it, think I must be keeping secrets. Glue rim, glue tire, wait ten minutes, tire on rim, pump it up.

An old one. A friend used to get a big box of tires every November from Team 7-11, from Jim Ochowicz. Tires to be patched. This was back in days of red glue and the glue on base tape was plain as could be. Two seasons running the tires arrived with a short run of glue from spoke hole to spoke hole and then three spaces spoke hole to spoke hole left blank. A 32 spoke wheel would only have eight short strips of glue. A 28 spoke wheel would have seven short strips of glue. These were tires with marker pen names PHINNEY, BOBKE, HAMPSTEN, CARMICHAEL, DAG-OTTO, ALCALA and so forth.

Glue your tires and expect it to work. Avoid 60mph descents on unglued spares. Don't worry.

jcb3 01-29-19 05:58 PM

Also, my first few times I used too little glue, and i could easily peel the tires off when deflated after a ride or so - they stay on ok when inflated. But I didnt push the tires too hard initially.

RobbieTunes 01-29-19 10:34 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20770264)
as I am getting closer to actually gluing tires and finishing my build, the question came to me: do people pre glue the spare when the spare is a new not mounted tubie (I have stretched it ) or not. If not, then is it just put it on and ride easy until a proper gluing can be done? (I have seen comments that many people use and old tire that is just old or old an repaired as a spare and as such has glue

I used to just trust the resiglue on the rim to stick to the spare and get me home.
Now, since they're taped, the tape generally stays on the rim, so the spare sticks just fine, and the residue tape gets me home.
(But then I can't use a cool word like resiglue.)

jimmuller 01-30-19 05:34 AM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20770264)
do people pre glue the spare when the spare is a new not mounted tubie...?

Yeah, in general I pre-glue. My spares tend to be older tires with, as RT called it, resiglue. If it's reasonably fresh I will leave it alone. Otherwise I refresh the glue. If the tire is new I will pre-glue it as if it were to be mounted.

Bianchigirll 01-30-19 09:14 AM

I've never preglued a spare but some guys I worked with used to do it. I don't worry about prestretching them either since the tighter it fits the better.

speedevil 01-30-19 09:19 AM

I usually preglue a spare, when I'm gluing the tubs I'm riding on. Takes just a fee minutes to do, and after a day or so you can fold it up and it's ready to go. Hopefully not needed, but nice to know that it's there.

I've heard that once installed, braking warms and softens the glue on the spare and gives you better adhesion. Can't speak from personal experience on that as I prefer to take it easy on a freshly-mounted spare.

No real reason to test the limits of adhesion and risk a much larger problem than a flatted tub.

squirtdad 01-30-19 11:07 AM

while I am keeping the thread busy, does anyone have any experience with wheels from Bicycle wheel ware house?

I am looking at an ultegra 6800 mavic reflex combo.... it matches the mavic open pro/ultegra 6800 clinchers I have for my de rosa

Brief: Tubular Road wheel set 700C, build level info
Rims: Mavic Refelx® CD, (Couche Dure), double stainless eyeleted, 32 holes
Hubs Front: Shimano 105 silver or black (159g), Ultegra (155g), or Dura-Ace (126g), please select
Hubs Rear: Shimano 105 silver or black (350g), Ultegra, (352g) or Dura-Ace (258g) Shimano (& Sram) 8/9/10 speed compatible, 32 holes, please select
Nipples: DT Swiss brass or alloy nipples, please select

Mavic Reflex CD Ultegra Tubular Wheel Set

63rickert 01-30-19 03:21 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20771155)
while I am keeping the thread busy, does anyone have any experience with wheels from Bicycle wheel ware house?

I am looking at an ultegra 6800 mavic reflex combo.... it matches the mavic open pro/ultegra 6800 clinchers I have for my de rosa

Brief: Tubular Road wheel set 700C, build level info
Rims: Mavic Refelx® CD, (Couche Dure), double stainless eyeleted, 32 holes
Hubs Front: Shimano 105 silver or black (159g), Ultegra (155g), or Dura-Ace (126g), please select
Hubs Rear: Shimano 105 silver or black (350g), Ultegra, (352g) or Dura-Ace (258g) Shimano (& Sram) 8/9/10 speed compatible, 32 holes, please select
Nipples: DT Swiss brass or alloy nipples, please select

Mavic Reflex CD Ultegra Tubular Wheel Set


Last heard of those guys maybe ten years ago. Still in business. Checked site, seems to be same place. Good wheels back then. Pay extra and get light spokes, you'll get more out of the Reflex rims. Which just have to be old stock, a good thing in this case. The DT 2.0/1.8 are so minimally butted always made me wonder why they bothered. 2.0/1.5 rides better.

DiabloScott 04-11-19 01:04 PM

From VeloNews this week:

At the Tour of Flanders, 15 of the 25 teams raced 28mm tubulars
And I had 27mm tubulars on for Eroica CA. I was very happy to have no tire problems... the toughest test I've ever given any road tires. I saw only about 20% of the bikes at Eroica running tubulars; a lot more than I usually see of course.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/G_...=w1024-h576-no

79pmooney 04-11-19 01:19 PM

DiabloScott, is that an Open Pave?

squirtdad 04-11-19 01:47 PM

teaser

I will get a first ride in tomorrow on the Challenge Elite Pro 25mm and will report out

I can say gluing mounting process (used tufo tape before) was a total non-issue..... not at all hard (maybe years of reading about it helped and the yellow jersey link helped Tubular Tire Mounting Cement Gluing Adhesion by Yellow Jersey; Thoughts on a Front Wheel

and the spare is of course folded ala @DiabloScott

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8b0360b107.jpg

construction looks decent
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a42abd98ce.jpg

again looks like decent construction
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f8d4dcbc06.jpg

diablo scott fold

DiabloScott 04-11-19 01:58 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 20880352)
DiabloScott, is that an Open Pave?

Well, it's a tubular Pave'. I have 5 unused ones left in my stash. I do have open Pave's on my clincher wheels though (ordered "open" by mistake) - almost as nice of a ride.



Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20880398)

Very well executed :thumb: - I suggest closing your valve though, so the stem doesn't break off.

markwesti 04-11-19 02:05 PM

I think these will be interesting , not sure if their seta's . Right now there are stretching , although I have never done the two aged coats and one fresh before mounting I think I'll do it this time . I can change .
Giro d' Italia AX
https://live.staticflickr.com/7897/4...5e74d1c8_z.jpg
IMG_0277 by mark westi, on Flickr

noglider 04-11-19 02:20 PM

I'm riding my track racing bike after not using it for a few years. I've lost my nerve. I'm afraid my 22mm tires (Continental Sprinter) will slip, even though I know they won't. I'm just nervous, especially when I see a groove in the road. Does anyone have suggestion for rebuilding the confidence? I weigh 170 lbs, and I'm pumping them to 100 psi.

squirtdad 04-11-19 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 20880419)
Well, it's a tubular Pave'. I have 5 unused ones left in my stash. I do have open Pave's on my clincher wheels though (ordered "open" by mistake) - almost as nice of a ride.




Very well executed :thumb: - I suggest closing your valve though, so the stem doesn't break off.

fixed that just after the pic :)

markwesti 04-11-19 02:39 PM

My dear Tom , it's all in your head . Re glue ,and forget about it . Whoever said N+1 does not include a track bike ... Well I don't know , not my opine .

RobbieTunes 04-11-19 03:04 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20880448)
I'm just nervous, especially when I see a groove in the road. Does anyone have suggestion for rebuilding the confidence? I weigh 170 lbs, and I'm pumping them to 100 psi.

Run over a cat. Once you recover, you'll be fine.

Had my first tubular flat, ever. Tufo Hi-Composite Carbon 25, so yeah, I'm ticked. Tire looks great, like new condition.

Culprit is the valve stem (not the core). Stem "joint" is bad. Tilt it one way, fine, another, air escapes. At 100 psi, it was leaking slow, which I thought was the core. I replaced the core, pumped it to 100, ran a construction gauntlet (mostly sidewalk to avoid steel plates and debris), and 1 mile later, the road roughed up, but I looked down just to be sure: yep, was running a carbon rim on a mostly-flat tire. Slow ride back, replace tire (tape, dude!), eat lunch, stew a bit, and then back on the road for 36.

.....I think a flat on a tubular, on a modern bike, is more disappointing. Not sure why. Zipp 303 on a Wraith.... aargh.

noglider 04-11-19 03:10 PM

@RobbieTunes :lol: you must be a cat hater. :lol:

63rickert 04-11-19 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20880448)
I'm riding my track racing bike after not using it for a few years. I've lost my nerve. I'm afraid my 22mm tires (Continental Sprinter) will slip, even though I know they won't. I'm just nervous, especially when I see a groove in the road. Does anyone have suggestion for rebuilding the confidence? I weigh 170 lbs, and I'm pumping them to 100 psi.

Yes. Those are skinny tires. You are running just a touch light on air. Some tubulars, and definitely wider tubulars, are fine a bit soft. Conti Sprinters want to be hard. They get confused and squirmy if soft. Try 120. If no good try 110. Check with a different gauge. Pump gauges can read way off and you'd never know. Also check to see if you are running true to size. Check with a caliper. Contis are pretty good about sizing but even a little narrower or wider in a tire that small makes a difference.


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