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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gna 06-28-15 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17934137)
Did you drive from Winnipeg to Toronto for the wheel? If you did, you must have a serious commitment to the project.

The post about the Toronto show was unrelated.

gster 06-28-15 06:43 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 17934276)
The post about the Toronto show was unrelated.

Yes, yes it was.

michaelz28 06-29-15 04:14 PM

OMG, back when i got my first SA hub i asked what weight oil and everyone said 30 weight ( not necessarily here ) . now i get reamed for that info and am told that its 20 weight . any definitive answer ??? or is everyone right ??

nlerner 06-29-15 04:24 PM

From a 1970s Raleigh Bicycle Owner's Manual: Guide to Maintenance: "The ideal rule for lubrication should be two or three drops of oil every month, which will maintain the hub in first class running order. USE ONLY STURMEY-ARCHER OIL (OR SAE 20 GRADE). DO NOT use thick oil or grease."

And from a 1947 version: "About quarter to half teaspoonful of oil once a fortnight is correct, rather more being required if he mileage covered is high. Use R.I. [Raleigh Industries] 'All-purpose' Oil. If this is not available a good quality thin machine oil may be used. Never use thick oil or grease, as either will cause the pawls to stick."

markk900 06-29-15 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17937204)
OMG, back when i got my first SA hub i asked what weight oil and everyone said 30 weight ( not necessarily here ) . now i get reamed for that info and am told that its 20 weight . any definitive answer ??? or is everyone right ??

I find it to be a universal truth - no matter what you are interested in (cars, motorcycles, air tools, lathes, guns, hedgehogs) there will be an internet forum where people will go completely sideways about an oil thread. (well, maybe not the hedgehogs). No definitive answer....for this thread, to paraphrase the Harry Hurt study on the use of motorcycle helmets - the difference between no helmet and *any* helmet is far greater than the difference between a cheap helmet and the *best* helmet......substitute oil for helmet. If an AW gums up, open 'er up and clean 'er. Just make sure you put oil in at some point....

michaelz28 06-29-15 07:28 PM

my point being there are no seals in the hub so it meant to exit the hub eventually ... so 30 or 20 weight , its leaking out .. they suggest 2 to 3 drops so it ain't going to make that much difference . the only thing that makes oil sludge is heat . there should be no heat in the hub so why sludge . i could see where a very thick oil would cause motion problems in the hub , but were talking gear lube thickness . its a bicycle not a Volkswagon ..

gna 06-29-15 09:48 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17937204)
OMG, back when i got my first SA hub i asked what weight oil and everyone said 30 weight ( not necessarily here ) . now i get reamed for that info and am told that its 20 weight . any definitive answer ??? or is everyone right ??

I've seen both 20 weight and 30 weight, in varying amounts. Don't know that it matters, honestly.

Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17937667)
my point being there are no seals in the hub so it meant to exit the hub eventually ... so 30 or 20 weight , its leaking out .. they suggest 2 to 3 drops so it ain't going to make that much difference . the only thing that makes oil sludge is heat . there should be no heat in the hub so why sludge . i could see where a very thick oil would cause motion problems in the hub , but were talking gear lube thickness . its a bicycle not a Volkswagon ..

Small amount as needed is fine. If you put fresh grease (the tan stuff) in the seals around the cones, it should keep much of it from leaking out.


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 17937480)
I find it to be a universal truth - no matter what you are interested in (cars, motorcycles, air tools, lathes, guns, hedgehogs) there will be an internet forum where people will go completely sideways about an oil thread. (well, maybe not the hedgehogs). No definitive answer....for this thread, to paraphrase the Harry Hurt study on the use of motorcycle helmets - the difference between no helmet and *any* helmet is far greater than the difference between a cheap helmet and the *best* helmet......substitute oil for helmet. If an AW gums up, open 'er up and clean 'er. Just make sure you put oil in at some point....

Amen.

These oil threads lately are making me nuts. Just use something.

BigChief 06-30-15 05:33 AM

As tiring as this subject is, there's still one point nobody has made. It's whole notion of the oil filler cap.
They used to put these on the bottom brackets too. I prefer teardown, cleaning and re-greasing hubs.
I apply a light coat of heavy oil as I reassemble the hub and in 30 years, have never had a problem with the pawls sticking.
I don't use the oil filler cap. Don't use the one in the bottom bracket either, but that's just me.
Taking bicycles apart is something I do for relaxation. It's a hobby for me. Using the oil fillers is perfectly fine
for those who want to spend more time riding and less time wrenching. It's all good.

gster 06-30-15 12:00 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by forestine (Post 17930780)
The wheel seems the same size, easier to find than 333 parts, plus I would get to practice overhauling an AW that wasn't already attached to a bike I wanted to ride. This hub doesn't even have the shifter rod and seems really complicated to overhaul. A fleabay search makes it seem expensive and difficult to find stuff.

I swapped the rear end out of this Supercycle 333 with a SA hub. Worked fine
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461661

noglider 06-30-15 12:45 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 17939491)
I swapped the rear end out of this Supercycle 333 with a SA hub. Worked fine

But you had to change the shifter, right?

gster 06-30-15 12:51 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17939632)
But you had to change the shifter, right?

Yes, the whole 333 system was removed (and thrown out) and replaced with SA parts.
I have a good collection of SA shifters/pulleys etc., even a few fulcrum stops!

Sixty Fiver 06-30-15 01:14 PM

Shimano's earliest 3 speeds ("333") are pretty much disposable; they don't run as well. parts are not available, and as far as I know there are no service manuals for them either.

The time one could put into a "333" would be better spent with an AW.

With that being said, the "333" is a fine hub until it stops working and they are fairly tough, if not less refined.

Suntour sold a 3 speed hub but this was a rebranded Sturmey Archer, many of the spare AW parts I have came in Suntour packaging.

gster 06-30-15 03:28 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 17939722)
Shimano's earliest 3 speeds ("333") are pretty much disposable; they don't run as well. parts are not available, and as far as I know there are no service manuals for them either.

The time one could put into a "333" would be better spent with an AW.

With that being said, the "333" is a fine hub until it stops working and they are fairly tough, if not less refined.

Suntour sold a 3 speed hub but this was a rebranded Sturmey Archer, many of the spare AW parts I have came in Suntour packaging.

I never actually rode the bike w/ the 333 hub as a matter of loyalty to SA. I had read several negative comments re: the 333
and decided just to scrap it.

dweenk 06-30-15 04:42 PM

Speaking of "333", I have a working top tube "333" stick shifter that I have no use for. It is free for the cost of postage.

forestine 06-30-15 10:32 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 17939491)
I swapped the rear end out of this Supercycle 333 with a SA hub. Worked fine
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461661

Great! This is an old Supercycle, too. Glad to see it works.

gster 07-01-15 05:25 AM

5 Attachment(s)
New Purchase.
Picked up a somewhat ratty hercules 3 speed the other day at a reasonable price ($80.00) The hub is poorly stamped but looks like 1971.
Here are the before pictures. It has a Japanese "Speedic" leather saddle as well.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461829http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461830http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461831http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461832http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461833

gster 07-01-15 06:40 AM


Originally Posted by forestine (Post 17941123)
Great! This is an old Supercycle, too. Glad to see it works.

This one has moved on to another lucky owner. I decided to concentrate on British built only. It was a good city bike and I did ride it for a couple of years.

forestine 07-01-15 08:42 AM

I got this one for when people visit but I bought it before I knew anything about bikes. It's just a matter of pride to get it working again, since I'll never be able to sell it for how much I paid for it. D'oh.

ETA: Cool Hercules!

gster 07-01-15 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by forestine (Post 17941870)
I got this one for when people visit but I bought it before I knew anything about bikes. It's just a matter of pride to get it working again, since I'll never be able to sell it for how much I paid for it. D'oh.

ETA: Cool Hercules!

Some Supercycles were built by Raleigh in the 60's and early 70's. The green one above was (I believe) built from left over CCM stock and rebranded for Canadian Tire approx 1974/75. It actually has an interesting 2 part paint finish with a base coat of silver over sprayed with a translucent chartreuse colour.

smontanaro 07-01-15 01:34 PM

Nice bike. I fixed up a Hercules for my (former) daughter-in-law a few years ago.


Originally Posted by gster (Post 17941424)
It has a Japanese "Speedic" leather saddle as well.

I think it's easy to assume that Brooks was the only company to make leather saddles (the hipsters probably all think so), but prior to, what, the late 50s?, I think just about all saddles for decent bikes were still made of leather. If you were to take some pictures of your Speedic, I imagine Amir, the proprietor of the saddlewax website, would be happy to include them.

gster 07-01-15 01:45 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 17942904)
Nice bike. I fixed up a Hercules for my (former) daughter-in-law a few years ago.



I think it's easy to assume that Brooks was the only company to make leather saddles (the hipsters probably all think so), but prior to, what, the late 50s?, I think just about all saddles for decent bikes were still made of leather. If you were to take some pictures of your Speedic, I imagine Amir, the proprietor of the saddlewax website, would be happy to include them.

This is the third Speedic saddle I've found and they seem to hold up quite well. I prefer an older, broken in saddle to a new one.

gster 07-01-15 01:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Good bye to a friend.
I sold this bike to a guy I work with.
1938 Hercules Falcon. It was really a project to keep me
busy during the winter. It was also far too small for me to ride.
It's gone to a good home and I only changed him what I had into the bike.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461944

gster 07-01-15 01:54 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 17942904)
Nice bike. I fixed up a Hercules for my (former) daughter-in-law a few years ago.



I think it's easy to assume that Brooks was the only company to make leather saddles (the hipsters probably all think so), but prior to, what, the late 50s?, I think just about all saddles for decent bikes were still made of leather. If you were to take some pictures of your Speedic, I imagine Amir, the proprietor of the saddlewax website, would be happy to include them.

I've sent him some photos.

gster 07-01-15 02:45 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Close examination of this saddle reveals that it says "Superior Quality, Special (not Speedic) Made in Japan.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461945http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461946

dweenk 07-01-15 03:13 PM

4 Attachment(s)
I think I have the Sports I bought a while back dialed in now. I like it so much that it is my daily rider for everything. I removed the seat bag for repairs, but the saddle is fantastic. I took it for a 14 mile ride this afternoon (90 degrees and humid). We are pretty flat around here, so I won't need to change the rear cog from stock - most of my rides are in "Normal".

I have one more adjustment to make. The pedals rotate forward when I push it. I checked the chain tension, so it must be tight bearings. From what I have read, that means backing off the lock nut on the non-drive side.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461947http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461948http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461949http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461950

dweenk 07-01-15 03:52 PM

I have a ladies Raleigh Sports with the nice "R" nuts on the cotter pins. It seems that someone in the past got a bit aggressive with the file on the left cotter. The head of the cotter is nearly inside the crank arm, and the arm is loose. I would like to buy a new cotter that:

A. Fits the crank, and
B. Will accept the "R" nut

Does anyone know the diameter of the pin (I think 9.5mm, but I am not sure) and the thread pitch?

gster 07-01-15 04:12 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17943197)
I think I have the Sports I bought a while back dialed in now. I like it so much that it is my daily rider for everything. I removed the seat bag for repairs, but the saddle is fantastic. I took it for a 14 mile ride this afternoon (90 degrees and humid). We are pretty flat around here, so I won't need to change the rear cog from stock - most of my rides are in "Normal".

I have one more adjustment to make. The pedals rotate forward when I push it. I checked the chain tension, so it must be tight bearings. From what I have read, that means backing off the lock nut on the non-drive side.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461947http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461948http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461949http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=461950

Nice looking' bike.

Velocivixen 07-01-15 06:14 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17943299)
I have a ladies Raleigh Sports with the nice "R" nuts on the cotter pins. It seems that someone in the past got a bit aggressive with the file on the left cotter. The head of the cotter is nearly inside the crank arm, and the arm is loose. I would like to buy a new cotter that:

A. Fits the crank, and
B. Will accept the "R" nut

Does anyone know the diameter of the pin (I think 9.5mm, but I am not sure) and the thread pitch?

Hey, I just bought Raleigh specific cotters from bikesmithdesign online HOWEVER it says right on their page that the cotter does NOT accept the Raleigh "R" nut. I presume it's due to the threading. Other than the online auction place I don't know where you'd get one. Or buy a cheap Raleigh bike that has them & use for parts.

JohnDThompson 07-01-15 07:56 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17943299)
I would like to buy a new cotter that:

A. Fits the crank, and
B. Will accept the "R" nut

Does anyone know the diameter of the pin (I think 9.5mm, but I am not sure) and the thread pitch?

The pins that accept the "R" nut have Whitworth thread; the only way you will find replacements is to get them from another old Raleigh.

N.B. The "R" is just a simple disk pressed into the opening of the nut on the pin. It may be possible to transfer it to another, non-Whitworth pin, but I have not tried this myself. Good luck!

dweenk 07-03-15 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17943643)
Hey, I just bought Raleigh specific cotters from bikesmithdesign online HOWEVER it says right on their page that the cotter does NOT accept the Raleigh "R" nut. I presume it's due to the threading. Other than the online auction place I don't know where you'd get one. Or buy a cheap Raleigh bike that has them & use for parts.


Thanks VV,

I found a cotter in my junk box that fits. The Raleigh nut won't fit it, but at least I have a bike that is rideable now. I'll keep my eyes open for old Raleigh cotters though.


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