Titanium rear derailleur hanger
I was looking at titanium road/touring frames from various manufacturers and noticed many have integrated rear derailleur hangers. I've only owned aluminum frames (MTB, road, gravel) and they all have replaceable hangers. Should an integrated hanger make me nervous, or is titanium *that* awesome?
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Originally Posted by pennpaul
(Post 22515315)
I was looking at titanium road/touring frames from various manufacturers and noticed many have integrated rear derailleur hangers. I've only owned aluminum frames (MTB, road, gravel) and they all have replaceable hangers. Should an integrated hanger make me nervous, or is titanium *that* awesome?
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
(Post 22515432)
Titanium is pretty resilient and can be cold set repeatedly so not a real issue in my view. The only problem is the hanger is so tough that the derailleur will the the point of failure not the hanger.
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
(Post 22515432)
Titanium is pretty resilient and can be cold set repeatedly so not a real issue in my view. The only problem is the hanger is so tough that the derailleur will the the point of failure not the hanger.
Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
(Post 22515445)
Even a derailleur is replaceable. What you really don't want is for the hanger to be stronger than the frame.
TL;DR not a problem. |
This is my experience as a shop mechanic for several decades. The replaceable Der hangers weaken over time. I don't know exactly why, but they come through often enough out of alignment for me to believe this does happen. I have not seen a titanium frame with an integrated hanger go out of alignment or break off in a mishap.
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero
(Post 22515633)
This is my experience as a shop mechanic for several decades. The replaceable Der hangers weaken over time. I don't know exactly why, but they come through often enough out of alignment for me to believe this does happen. I have not seen a titanium frame with an integrated hanger go out of alignment or break off in a mishap.
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero
(Post 22515633)
This is my experience as a shop mechanic for several decades. The replaceable Der hangers weaken over time. I don't know exactly why, but they come through often enough out of alignment for me to believe this does happen. I have not seen a titanium frame with an integrated hanger go out of alignment or break off in a mishap.
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Originally Posted by pennpaul
(Post 22515315)
I was looking at titanium road/touring frames from various manufacturers and noticed many have integrated rear derailleur hangers. I've only owned aluminum frames (MTB, road, gravel) and they all have replaceable hangers. Should an integrated hanger make me nervous, or is titanium *that* awesome?
FWIW, my 22-year-old Ti frame has a non-replaceable hanger fabricated from 5/16" 6/4 Ti plate. I'm pretty sure my RD will disintegrate before this hanger budges, and if so, them's the breaks - time for a new RD |
Although it would indeed suck to break my Di2 rear derailleur, it is the possibility of breaking the frame with the integrated hanger that has me worried.
Those modular dropouts (which include the hanger) I would think would be ideal (but don't have any particularly useful insight). |
Titanium is almost as strong as steel, and the hanger would be just as good as a steel bike that doesnt have a replaceable hanger.
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I can't imagine what it would take to bend the DR hanger on my Litespeed. That thing is pretty darn thick to start with and Ti is tough stuff.
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"They are somewhat designed to fail the idea is those break and save your nice derailleur and your frame."
Yes, they are designed to fail in the event of a maladjusted derailleur or a crash. What I am seeing is the hangers become weak over time under normal use and require realignment and eventually replacement after the hanger has been realigned a few times. Some designs are more susceptible to this than others. |
We have two recent ti bikes in the garage - 2021 Lynskey and 2021 Litespeed. They both have replaceable hangers - which are aluminum, and available from the companies. The old 96 Litespeed Classic does not have a replaceable hanger.
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Originally Posted by pennpaul
(Post 22515315)
is titanium *that* awesome?
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Titanium is repairable, but it will take a shop with a special heliarc setup for titanium to do it, a shop that specializes in welding titanium, then after it is welded you have to give the frame to a mechanic capable of re-shaping and re-tapping the hanger competently so they do not screw it up and have to send it back to the welder again.
I have destroyed to integrated hangers on steel frames in my life, one in a bad crash, one by simply not having the rear derailleur adjusted correctly and sucking the chain behind the big sprocket and bending the heck out of everything. I was able to repair both frames myself, probably because I grew up with an oxy/acetylene torch in one hand, and also used to work at a metal-fab shop when I was a young man among other experiences. The metal fab shop I worked at had jobs using titanium and if there was a mistake made on a part we had to send it out to have it welded up, which did not help the profit-margin. So you just have to look at the chances of you destroying the hanger vs. the cost of having it repaired vs. how much good a titanium frame will really do you. I don't think the weight saving of a titanium frame, and it's cost, is going to make any difference in anyone's life unless they are a pro-cyclist making a living at it, for anyone else it is just jewelry. |
Originally Posted by beng1
(Post 22519170)
So you just have to look at the chances of you destroying the hanger vs. the cost of having it repaired vs. how much good a titanium frame will really do you. I don't think the weight saving of a titanium frame, and it's cost, is going to make any difference in anyone's life unless they are a pro-cyclist making a living at it, for anyone else it is just jewelry.
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Originally Posted by beng1
(Post 22519170)
I don't think the weight saving of a titanium frame, and it's cost, is going to make any difference in anyone's life unless they are a pro-cyclist making a living at it, for anyone else it is just jewelry.
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Originally Posted by Litespud
(Post 22519499)
You could say the same about almost anything cycling-related beyond a plain steel single-speed bike with a coaster brake, yet here we are with our crazy jewelry :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by beng1
(Post 22520427)
Titanium is not as stiff as steel so it may have different ride qualities, but if they were worth it then 99.99% of the bicycles out there would not be steel or aluminum.
Again to the OPs question ....a Ti DR hanger will be plenty tough ..... and unless is on BF you probably won't get many people calling you out for having one. Oh and mine was worth it because I bought a 20+ year old one off of EBAY for a good price ! |
Originally Posted by TiHabanero
(Post 22518556)
"They are somewhat designed to fail the idea is those break and save your nice derailleur and your frame."
Yes, they are designed to fail in the event of a maladjusted derailleur or a crash. What I am seeing is the hangers become weak over time under normal use and require realignment and eventually replacement after the hanger has been realigned a few times. Some designs are more susceptible to this than others. I have a few bikes with replaceable hangers that have over 10,000 miles on them. I have never had to adjust the hanger at all, much less periodically. I’ve also never replaced one of my own. As a long time volunteer at a co-op where we see just how badly bicycles can be treated, I’ve only had to replace a few (out of close to 15,000 bikes I’ve worked on) and most of those were obviously damaged. |
Originally Posted by beng1
(Post 22520427)
Wrong. Multi-speed bikes have a proven practical use, they make it much easier for people to ride up grades, drop bars are proven to let people travel more quickly, coaster brakes are proven to have more drag than rim-brakes etc.. A lot of improvements in the bike as practical transportation have been made. Titanium is not as stiff as steel so it may have different ride qualities, but if they were worth it then 99.99% of the bicycles out there would not be steel or aluminum.
Can you give me the official beng1 verdict on carbon fiber? I see a lot of those racer types using it, and now even ordinary people (racer wannabees!) are adopting it! Damn' plastic frippery, if you ask me....:50: |
Originally Posted by beng1
(Post 22520427)
Wrong. Multi-speed bikes have a proven practical use, they make it much easier for people to ride up grades, drop bars are proven to let people travel more quickly, coaster brakes are proven to have more drag than rim-brakes etc.. A lot of improvements in the bike as practical transportation have been made. Titanium is not as stiff as steel so it may have different ride qualities, but if they were worth it then 99.99% of the bicycles out there would not be steel or aluminum.
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Originally Posted by Litespud
(Post 22520658)
Oh boy....
Can you give me the official beng1 verdict on carbon fiber? I see a lot of those racer types using it, and now even ordinary people (racer wannabees!) are adopting it! Damn' plastic frippery, if you ask me....:50: |
Originally Posted by beng1
(Post 22520427)
...Titanium is not as stiff as steel so it may have different ride qualities, but if they were worth it then 99.99% of the bicycles out there would not be steel or aluminum.
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Originally Posted by beng1
(Post 22520427)
Titanium is not as stiff as steel so it may have different ride qualities
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