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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Johno59 10-10-23 12:43 AM

Lube
 
Bottom bracket is grease not oil. ATF is for cleaning. A tablespoon of engine oil once a year in a running Strumey Archer hub is more than plenty.

1989Pre 10-10-23 05:19 AM

Ignore those oil ports. They were used to add oil to re-liquify the animal-based greases used in yester-year. Instead, use marine, waterproof boat-trailer grease in the bottom bracket, front hubs, pedals, and even the bearings of the internal gear hub (oil for inside of it). In my Sturmeys, I use electric motor oil called Zoom Spout Turbine. It has a 12" applicator tube that fits perfectly inside the oil port hole on Sturmey Archer internal gear hubs.

SirMike1983 10-10-23 07:53 AM


Originally Posted by sunburst (Post 23038442)
another lube question. I just noticed a lube port on the bottom bracket of my Royal Scot this weekend...what!? That kind of blows my mind. Does the same oil go in all three ports: front hub, BB and Sturmey Archer IGH?

and pls remind me what's the best oil. I've been googling that for 20 minutes and have really been taken down some rabbit holes on various forums. So much conflicting information!!!
Is ATF as good or better than Phil's? Or motor oil?

No need to overthink it or go down the rabbit hole. You can run the bottom bracket on a three speed on grease or medium weight oil, your choice.

I prefer grease and use the commonly available Lucas green grease. It comes in a tube and you can get it from most hardware stores. If you're riding in the rain or going through standing water, marine grease is a better choice. Don't attempt to use old-school brown axle grease in the bottom bracket. Don't use cheap dollar store type white grease either - it tends to gunk up and dry out.

If you prefer to use oil, use a medium weight oil like SAE 30 or 40 weight motor oil. The issue with an all-oil bottom bracket is you have to keep adding oil, and they tend to make a mess because the oil runs out the bottom and along the spindle. I would try the grease first.

Make sure the bottom bracket has been cleaned before you put a large number of miles on the bike. I've found all kinds of junk and debris in old bike bottom brackets over the years.

gna 10-10-23 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23038628)
In my Sturmeys, I use electric motor oil called Zoom Spout Turbine. It has a 12" applicator tube that fits perfectly inside the oil port hole on Sturmey Archer internal gear hubs.

Zoom oil is a 10W oil, so it's a little light, but it works just fine in SA hubs. Some folks prefer 20W or 30W oil. The applicator works really well. I have an empty zoom oil bottle I got at work and refilled it with synthetic 30W oil to use with SA hubs.

There's all sorts of conflicting information on what oil to use. The black 3-in-1 will gum up your hub, but the blue for electric motors is 20W and works well. It's similar to zoom oil. You can run ATF, but I think it's really thin.


Originally Posted by SirMike1983Pre (Post 23038705)
Make sure the bottom bracket has been cleaned before you put a large number of miles on the bike. I've found all kinds of junk and debris in old bike bottom brackets over the years.


I've found seeds, nuts, wasps--all sorts of stuff. Must come through the seat tube?

gna 10-10-23 10:16 AM


Originally Posted by swampyankee2 (Post 23033787)
This sounds like just the thing to get me out of my slump, and get some miles on the Sports as well. My only problem is, I live near the top of Chopmist Hill so it's away and down in any direction, and a long uphill slog back. Not suitable for a 3 speed. But I just mapped it out and if I trucked my bike down near the village I could offload and do a relatively level ride thru town and back. I could even stop for a beverage at the pub on the way by :beer:

Anyone else accepting this challenge?

I thought about it, but it would mostly be me riding to work and back.

SirMike1983 10-10-23 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23038838)
Zoom oil is a 10W oil, so it's a little light, but it works just fine in SA hubs. Some folks prefer 20W or 30W oil. The applicator works really well. I have an empty zoom oil bottle I got at work and refilled it with synthetic 30W oil to use with SA hubs.

There's all sorts of conflicting information on what oil to use. The black 3-in-1 will gum up your hub, but the blue for electric motors is 20W and works well. It's similar to zoom oil. You can run ATF, but I think it's really thin.


I've found seeds, nuts, wasps--all sorts of stuff. Must come through the seat tube?


Yes, it falls down the seat tube. I've found all kinds of junk - seeds, insects, spiders, gum wrappers, what ever else. You can sleeve the bottom bracket using rolled sheet metal to close off the frame tubes. A notch needs to be cut for the oiler in the sleeve. You can do it with plastic too, though the plastic sometimes deteriorates.

The thing I don't like about sleeves is they trap moisture and debris at the bottom of the seat tube. You're just moving the problem up the tube, though it will keep the bottom bracket cleaner than otherwise. The sleeve should be pulled once in awhile for a clean out anyway, and the metal ones will cut you if you're not careful. I just removed one from an old Raleigh and ended up just not putting it back in.

I don't use sleeves. I just grease the center of the spindle and bottom of the bottom bracket. If anything does fall down the seat tube, it sticks in the grease at the center and does not migrate to the bearings. It all gets cleaned out when I repack the bottom bracket periodically. I will say I don't ride in foul weather or through standing water or when there is salt/slush on the roads. You see the sleeves in commuter bikes sometimes.

SoCaled 10-10-23 11:02 AM

"Marfield" - Sold through Marshal Fields department store - https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...xel-value.html
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...tory_type=post
I like the green wrapped bars
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8ba8e1194a.jpg

swampyankee2 10-10-23 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23038841)
I thought about it, but it would mostly be me riding to work and back.

So not much of a "challenge" for you then. For me, however, it does challenge me to get off my duff and go do something active.

1989Pre 10-10-23 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23038838)
Zoom oil is a 10W oil, so it's a little light, but it works just fine in SA hubs. Some folks prefer 20W or 30W oil. The applicator works really well. I have an empty zoom oil bottle I got at work and refilled it with synthetic 30W oil to use with SA hubs.

There's all sorts of conflicting information on what oil to use. The black 3-in-1 will gum up your hub, but the blue for electric motors is 20W and works well. It's similar to zoom oil. You can run ATF, but I think it's really thin.


I've found seeds, nuts, wasps--all sorts of stuff. Must come through the seat tube?

Keep in-mind that some seatposts, like the Stratalite, had an open top.

Salubrious 10-10-23 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 23038855)
I don't use sleeves. I just grease the center of the spindle and bottom of the bottom bracket. If anything does fall down the seat tube, it sticks in the grease at the center and does not migrate to the bearings. It all gets cleaned out when I repack the bottom bracket periodically. I will say I don't ride in foul weather or through standing water or when there is salt/slush on the roads. You see the sleeves in commuter bikes sometimes.

You can also plug the seat post.

sunburst 10-10-23 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 23038705)
No need to overthink it or go down the rabbit hole. You can run the bottom bracket on a three speed on grease or medium weight oil, your choice.

I prefer grease and use the commonly available Lucas green grease. It comes in a tube and you can get it from most hardware stores. If you're riding in the rain or going through standing water, marine grease is a better choice. Don't attempt to use old-school brown axle grease in the bottom bracket. Don't use cheap dollar store type white grease either - it tends to gunk up and dry out.

If you prefer to use oil, use a medium weight oil like SAE 30 or 40 weight motor oil. The issue with an all-oil bottom bracket is you have to keep adding oil, and they tend to make a mess because the oil runs out the bottom and along the spindle. I would try the grease first.

Make sure the bottom bracket has been cleaned before you put a large number of miles on the bike. I've found all kinds of junk and debris in old bike bottom brackets over the years.

OK, thx everybody. Oil in the IGH, grease in the BB. It must have grease in the BB because there is no oil residue anywhere. I will eventually take it apart. I've done it many times on other bikes, as I have bought many vintage wreaks in the past and enjoy bringing them back to life. It was those oil ports that threw me.

SirMike1983 10-10-23 07:13 PM

Getting in those late season three speed rides...

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...004_175405.jpg

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...010_173222.jpg

Johno59 10-11-23 12:26 AM

White Grease
 
I purchased some well recommended white silicone based grease that wasn't cheap and I had the same hardening problem mentioned above. I used it everywhere( coz it was so good) on the bike and after a few years it was worse than useless. I couldn't believe how bad it was, as some of my older bikes have the ancient two-pack grease ( grease dissolved by the occasional squirt of oil) that was 50 years old.
Does the white grease manufacturer expect you to rebuild the bike every year?! Surely not.

Sedgemop 10-11-23 07:13 AM

Couple of Superbes in need of rescue.

Raleigh Nottingham Bikes 1970s $100 Ithaca, MI


Facebook MI Superbes

$100 each

https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...5w&oe=652AB37A
https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Aw&oe=652AD63F
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...HA&oe=652BCA55

zookster 10-11-23 09:15 AM

Rod Brake Raleigh $50 Auburn, AL
 
Slightly crusty rod brake Raleigh for sale on FB in Auburn, AL for $50. It is somewhat nearby (about 2 hrs away) but I am going to be out of town until the 25th. If it is still listed then I will try to go have a look at it. Also sent a message to the seller to see if I can put a deposit (or pay in full, it's only $50) and have them hold it until I get back in town.
Rod Brake Raleigh

Seller's pictures:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a8cb060e79.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5acadbe259.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...13c3b41f50.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3c7865995f.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8195b833e2.jpg

thumpism 10-11-23 02:42 PM

Looks like a 23", looks Dutch, looks like it's weathered...but it's only $100 in NJ.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...34123145605999

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...7g&oe=652B873F

tcs 10-11-23 03:02 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23038838)
There's all sorts of conflicting information on what oil to use.

It's sort of a game with amateur tribologists to use something other than the factory recommendation. The Sturmey factory consistently specifies NLGI #2 grease for the bearings and labyrinth seals and either NLGI #00 grease or 20~30 wt. motor oil for the internal mechanism.

Fun fact: during and after the war, when things were rationed and in short supply, Sturmey suggested sewing machine oil as a substitute for the internal mechanism and Vaseline for the bearings and seals. (!)

gna 10-11-23 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by tcs (Post 23039975)
It's sort of a game with amateur tribologists to use something other than the factory recommendation. The Sturmey factory consistently specifies NLGI #2 grease for the bearings and labyrinth seals and either NLGI #00 grease or 20~30 wt. motor oil for the internal mechanism.

Fun fact: during and after the war, when things were rationed and in short supply, Sturmey suggested sewing machine oil as a substitute for the internal mechanism and Vaseline for the bearings and seals. (!)

The grease recommendations are relatively recent--if you look at old Sturmey info, they state "Only thin good quality oil should be used for the lubrication of Sturmey-Archer hubs. Thick oils or grease must not be used, but when a hub is dismantled a small amount of grease or vaseline may be put on the ball races only." (Note that this information contradicts other information from Sturmey-Archer, to put grease only on the labyrinth seals.)

thumpism 10-11-23 09:37 PM

Man, even that dent is shiny. $90 in PA.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...99272614282646

https://scontent.fric1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...aw&oe=652D5747

Johno59 10-12-23 12:21 AM

Bargain
 
[QUOTE=zookster;23039700]Slightly crusty rod brake Raleigh for sale on FB in Auburn, AL for $50. It is somewhat nearby (about 2 hrs away) but I am going to be out of town until the 25th. If it is still listed then I will try to go have a look at it. Also sent a message to the seller to see if I can put a deposit (or pay in full, it's only $50) and have them hold it until I get back in town.
Rod Brake Raleigh

Seller's pictures:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a8cb060e79.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5acadbe259.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...13c3b41f50.jpg

It looks original. The seat alone is worth the asking price.

zookster 10-12-23 10:47 AM

[QUOTE=Johno59;23040260]

Originally Posted by zookster (Post 23039700)
Slightly crusty rod brake Raleigh for sale on FB in Auburn, AL for $50. It is somewhat nearby (about 2 hrs away) but I am going to be out of town until the 25th. If it is still listed then I will try to go have a look at it. Also sent a message to the seller to see if I can put a deposit (or pay in full, it's only $50) and have them hold it until I get back in town.
Rod Brake Raleigh

Seller's pictures:

It looks original. The seat alone is worth the asking price.

It sold last night. Missed out on that one!

thumpism 10-12-23 06:55 PM

Puch Rugby Sport for $100 in PA. Missing front fender, wrong pedals, still a good buy,

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...39836925234709

https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...sQ&oe=652D72C3

Johno59 10-13-23 03:00 PM

[QUOTE=zookster;23040625]

Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 23040260)

It sold last night. Missed out on that one!

DAMMMIITTT!!!

gna 10-15-23 12:49 PM

3 Speed Sprite. Nice for taller lady:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9fd49a82e4.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...4481778410668/

tcs 10-15-23 01:36 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23040109)
The grease recommendations are relatively recent--

Yeah, just since 1984...40 years ago!


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