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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 10:58 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20291515)
Looks like tomorrow I will collect the black '63 Rudge Sports I bought a week or so ago. I paid probably 20% more than I felt comfortable and am just hoping there's not any big problem with it, like damage to the frame or rims so rusted they're not even rideable. (The photos weren't great quality.) Although if that happened I'd probably have some recourse through eBay.

It's about is it worth it to you-no matter cost.

desconhecido 04-18-18 12:07 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 20291051)
Do you have any close-up pictures of how your B&M headlight is attached to the heron bracket?

The mount was salvaged from a Sports with a bottle dyno and very poor condition headlight. I may have had to bend each side of the mount a bit to get it to match the width of the B&M housing. Need to clean up some detail, I see.

desconhecido 04-18-18 12:24 PM


Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 20291196)
That is a fine looking bicycle. :love:

How well does the dynohub work with the modern LED B+M? Does it offer enough juice?
And is the rear light also connected?

At slow speeds it isn't very bright but when you get it up to about 5mph it's fine. At 10-14mph, which is what I typically shoot for on the flat streets of Houston, it's plenty bright. I was using a Shimano DH-3N72 with the same light and the Shimano was clearly superior at slow speeds, but I think that when you get up to speed the Dynohub will provide adequate current for the LEDs, which use less current than the incandescent that the hub was built for. The Dynohub, and the Shimano as well (as I understand) are AC producing devices and the LED lights, obviously, only work on half the cycle. So, light output can be increased greatly (maybe almost doubled, I don't know) by using a simple rectifier circuit.

There are two bikes here with SA Dynohubs and B&M lights and neither has a dyno powered tail light. The little Zefels and Cateyes are cheap and the batteries last a real long time. Next one I do will probably use an LED dyno intended tailight.

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 01:23 PM

I turn lights off and stay far away motor vehicles.

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 01:28 PM

I do clip on flashing red to dog collar

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 01:40 PM

I could say no could say yes or maybe. I can't even lie.

Salubrious 04-18-18 02:42 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20290506)
It is but you can go with lower gearing up to a 22 tooth rear maybe even 24. The hockey stick chainguards are easily adjustable, the enclosed ones can be fussy but I think they will clear 22 teeth. Anyone?

Yup- even larger if you are careful, but IME better to go to a 44 up front instead.

restlessswind 04-18-18 03:14 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20292509)
Yup- even larger if you are careful, but IME better to go to a 44 up front instead.

Changing front chainring/cranks sounds like an expensive and hard to find proposition. Anyway, my wife loves her Heron chainring.

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 03:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)
this is a 62

Attachment 607875

Salubrious 04-18-18 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20292576)
Changing front chainring/cranks sounds like an expensive and hard to find proposition. Anyway, my wife loves her Heron chainring.

If we are talking about an enclosed chainguard (Roadster) then the chainring is not visible. The larger you make the rear sprocket in a enclosed chainguard the harder it is to get it all back together! I've done 22T and it looks like a 23T would work but if you need that a 44 in front is easier.

But Raleigh did make 44T Heron chainrings; I just installed one on my girlfriend's Superbe.

BigChief 04-18-18 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20291515)
Looks like tomorrow I will collect the black '63 Rudge Sports I bought a week or so ago. I paid probably 20% more than I felt comfortable and am just hoping there's not any big problem with it, like damage to the frame or rims so rusted they're not even rideable. (The photos weren't great quality.) Although if that happened I'd probably have some recourse through eBay.

Pre 65 3 speeds are getting more rare all the time. Even more so if you want something as cool as a Rudge. Luckily, most sellers don't value these bikes the same way we enthusiasts do. Bargains can still be had but you could scan Craigslist for a long, long time before you found a bargain priced 63 Rudge.

Ballenxj 04-18-18 06:23 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20292853)
Pre 65 3 speeds are getting more rare all the time. Even more so if you want something as cool as a Rudge. Luckily, most sellers don't value these bikes the same way we enthusiasts do. Bargains can still be had but you could scan Craigslist for a long, long time before you found a bargain priced 63 Rudge.

I'm sure knowing what to look for, as well as having a trained eye can't hurt either. ;)

curbtender 04-18-18 07:58 PM

Haven't heard of a 'Scandia' https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/bik...543692836.html

johnnyspaghetti 04-19-18 01:41 AM


Originally Posted by curbtender (Post 20293108)

The Raleigh is a 1973 or later & the west coast price tag is for democrats only.

oldveloman 04-19-18 03:33 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20286902)
The lists of serial numbers you'll find isn't very reliable. Many anomalies. We can find a reasonably close date with frame features, graphics and accessories. That information was gathered by catalog pictures and Sturmey Archer hub dates on known examples. So not perfect, but pretty close. I can see from the shape of the steering tube lug front that the frame is 1955 or later. I think I can see a bit of the joint from the steering tube lug and top tube enough to see a shape that is 1957 or later. The next frame feature in the timeline would be the shifter cable guide wheel. Is it brazed onto the top tube or clamped on the seat tube? All through the 50s, the wheel had a mount brazed on the top tube. Then around 1960-1961, they changed to using a clamp on steel wheel with a gray finish and 2 piece band. Somewhere around 63 they changed to a plastic wheel with a one piece band. Also around that time, they eliminated the oil port in the bottom bracket and the full chaincase mounting lug on the drive side chainstay. The fork is a bit less conclusive. Safe to say that if it has the bullet shaped ends where the dropouts are brazed in, it would be 1964 or later.

Thanks BigChief, that' s a lot of help !

As I said before, this Triumph Sports was a single speed bike when bought 25 years ago and I fitted a '77 3-speed wheel a few years later. So no clue there.
It has alloy Weinmann Type 810 brakes.
The oil port ( with plastic cup ) in the bottom bracket and the full chaincase mounting lug are there, as can be seen from the pictures below.
It has wire mudguard stays front and rear bolted into brazed-on lugs.

Would be nice to find a list of serial numbers too though, as XY8567 doesn' t fit in the Raleigh numbering system as far as I can see.
I have a mid-sixties ladies Triumph that has a normal Raleigh number ( 1915219 ) for that era and I had others that fitted in too...

Peter

BigChief 04-19-18 04:49 AM

Since it was originally a single speed, we don't have a guide wheel to narrow things down, so we're at 1957-1963. But I'm guessing late 50s. The brake levers are contemporary with the 1977 hub. The VCC has a few Triumph catalogs posted here.
Veteran-Cycle Club Online Library
Might find some more clues.

paulb_in_bkln 04-19-18 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by oldveloman (Post 20293416)
Thanks BigChief, that' s a lot of help !

As I said before, this Triumph Sports was a single speed bike when bought 25 years ago and I fitted a '77 3-speed wheel a few years later. So no clue there.
It has alloy Weinmann Type 810 brakes.
The oil port ( with plastic cup ) in the bottom bracket and the full chaincase mounting lug are there, as can be seen from the pictures below.
It has wire mudguard stays front and rear bolted into brazed-on lugs.

Would be nice to find a list of serial numbers too though, as XY8567 doesn' t fit in the Raleigh numbering system as far as I can see.
I have a mid-sixties ladies Triumph that has a normal Raleigh number ( 1915219 ) for that era and I had others that fitted in too...

Peter

Can you work that BB fixed cup out if you need to?

paulb_in_bkln 04-19-18 06:23 AM


Originally Posted by Ballenxj (Post 20292924)
I'm sure knowing what to look for, as well as having a trained eye can't hurt either. ;)

I have to get some perspective on this. It's not like I'm meeting my mail-order bride.

oldveloman 04-19-18 07:45 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20293448)
The brake levers are contemporary with the 1977 hub.

Hah ! Thanks again, BC.
I wasn' t sure if I replaced the handlebars, or the grips, or the levers years ago - or not.
There' s two different alloy Weinmann levers fitted BTW.
I know that other grips were fitted when I bought it, so I searched my garage, but nothing to find. Probably fitted to another bike that has long gone since...
Now, back in 1997, this and some other bicycles were used as “models" in one of my paintings, so I had a look to see what was fitted back then.
Below is a picture of that painting and a detail of the Triumph.
It shows the original grips and the lever that is still on it today. The handlebar at right with black grips, has the same lever as the other one on the Triumph. I do not recall what levers were fitted when I bought the bike.
Does this grip narrows it down ?

The bicycle at left, was my wife's Flandria. the handlebars at right belonged to a triumph Bermuda... :)

Peter

oldveloman 04-19-18 07:53 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20293519)
Can you work that BB fixed cup out if you need to?

Haven' t tried that yet, but it' s a soft plastic thing, so I guess it will come out easily.

BigChief 04-19-18 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20293527)
I have to get some perspective on this. It's not like I'm meeting my mail-order bride.

I'm looking forward to seeing pictures. Please post some when you get a chance. An old Rudge is always interesting!

johnnyspaghetti 04-19-18 11:44 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by oldveloman (Post 20293416)
Thanks BigChief, that' s a lot of help !

As I said before, this Triumph Sports was a single speed bike when bought 25 years ago and I fitted a '77 3-speed wheel a few years later. So no clue there.
It has alloy Weinmann Type 810 brakes.
The oil port ( with plastic cup ) in the bottom bracket and the full chaincase mounting lug are there, as can be seen from the pictures below.
It has wire mudguard stays front and rear bolted into brazed-on lugs.

Would be nice to find a list of serial numbers too though, as XY8567 doesn' t fit in the Raleigh numbering system as far as I can see.
I have a mid-sixties ladies Triumph that has a normal Raleigh number ( 1915219 ) for that era and I had others that fitted in too...

Peter

This bike is around 1962. mabye 1961. The paint scheme is a 1961 American Raleigh but I don't know. The plastic oiler bb is post 1960. The barrel end front fork dropout seems to have discontiued in 1963 then turning to blade type. I have 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1985, Raliegh built bikes.
This is a 48 state 1961 sports I got for $75 It has plastic BB oiler port. My 2 1960s sports have metal spring cap BB port.

Attachment 608028

oldveloman 04-19-18 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20294298)
This bike is around 1962. mabye 1961. The paint scheme is a 1961 American Raleigh but I don't know. The plastic oiler bb is post 1960. The barrel end front fork dropout seems to have discontiued in 1963 then turning to blade type. I have 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1985, Raliegh built bikes.
This is a 48 state 1961 sports I got for $75

Thanks, Johnny.
So this Triumph Sports must be 1961, 1962, or 1963.
We are getting closer :)

Seems like a bargain, that '61 Raleigh you got there !

Peter

paulb_in_bkln 04-19-18 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by oldveloman (Post 20293696)
back in 1997, this and some other bicycles were used as “models" in one of my paintings, so I had a look to see what was fitted back then.
Below is a picture of that painting and a detail of the Triumph. Peter

Marvelous paintings.

paulb_in_bkln 04-19-18 05:29 PM

8 Attachment(s)
This bike is fine. So much for repainting—that’s over. It lacks the hand chainring, but has the old style brake cables and an oil port in the BB. Plus the head tube badge and frame decals, wow. The hub says ’63. Rims? Eh, that’s not superficial rust, I don’t think. Other chrome is darn good. The indicator chain was broken, you’ll see that in the snaps, so I put in a new one and it shifts nicely. Need to pull the left side crank out; it nudges the left chainstay. The B72, well, with plenty of foam crammed underneath, it might give me a little time.

I am puzzled about one thing. Height at the top of the seat tube is the same as on my Raleigh Sports step-thru (21 inches from BB to top). But at the front, there is a 2-inch difference in the length of the head tubes, which puts the Rudge MUCH lower at the front (I mean the top of the head tube) than the step thru Sports. I did not expect this.


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