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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

noglider 07-25-18 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 20467995)
Back in the day, when all this gear was brand new, one of the reasons few people rode around at night (unless forced to) was these rigs gave off very little light. They were a step up from wick burning lanterns but only just.
If powered by a Dynohub the bulbs will burn out if you go down a big hill fast enough - especially if you hit a pothole at speed.
As a kid, going down an unpaved road with loose gravel either side, at 30 mph, at night : then hit a bump and your Dynohub blows the bulb - plunging you into ink-black darkness-- still haunts me.

Yeah I love old bikes almost as much as other folks here, but I don't enjoy the thought of using filament bulbs with no voltage regulator or engineered reflector or lens. The new lights are so much better than the old ones that it's almost a matter of life and death. I rode a country road with just a flashlight in my hand, and man, was that scary.

It is not a crazy idea to run modern LED lights off an antique Dynohub. In theory it should not work because you're supposed to have a supply of 3W, and the Dynohub is rated at 1.8W, but in practice, it is likely to work OK, especially if you don't hook up a tail light.

Lawrence_S 07-25-18 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20464765)
The loop frame is a Danish Raleigh. Very nice bikes. They still make them. Perhaps they can sell you the chaincase part. Good looking DL-1 Welcome to the big roadster club!
https://raleighbikes.dk/

Thanks, BigChief. Did the Danish-produced Raleighs have the Nottingham head badge and "Made in England" decals? I suppose this frame could have had new decals but from the looks of them they're pretty old. The serial is "W0..." [Edit: actually I believe it is N0...] and the SA AW hub is "7" and "80" so I'm fairly certain of the date.

I'm enjoying the DL-1. Unfortunately the right front fork leg is slightly bent in towards the frame and causes the wheel to want to track to the right. Any links to a safe and as-gentle-as-possible method for straightening? I assume a large pipe would also work.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5778c4224c.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...453fecf7a8.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c64498ff6d.jpg

Ballenxj 07-25-18 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20468418)
Yeah I love old bikes almost as much as other folks here, but I don't enjoy the thought of using filament bulbs with no voltage regulator or engineered reflector or lens. The new lights are so much better than the old ones that it's almost a matter of life and death. I rode a country road with just a flashlight in my hand, and man, was that scary.

It is not a crazy idea to run modern LED lights off an antique Dynohub. In theory it should not work because you're supposed to have a supply of 3W, and the Dynohub is rated at 1.8W, but in practice, it is likely to work OK, especially if you don't hook up a tail light.

One thing to note, regardless of what vintage bike, I consider a flashing red led on the rear a safety matter. As I drive down roads, I watch for bicycles anyway, but have noted those with a flashing led are much more noticeable, and from a much greater distance. Don't substitute nostalgia for safety. You can mount the led in an antique looking housing though. ;)

Cute Boy Horse 07-25-18 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20465964)
They were both 6v .5amp which are not the bulbs specified in the diagram. My question is...Does my weak light result from using a 6v .5amp bulb where a 6v .3amp bulb is specified?

Yeah, the higher rated bulb doesn't resist the power enough, so it doesn't get hot enough to glow properly. I've seen some people fit bulbs so large that they offered absolutely no resistance at all, acting like a short circuit and burning up the dynamo.

There are sellers of LED replacement bulbs out there, so long as you get one with a wide operating voltage range (say 2.5-9v) you'll be good to go. The only problem is that Dynohubs are a lot more low frequency AC so they tend to flicker. The cure for that is the dry battery unit, or homemade copy - even when the batteries are missing the AC > DC rectifier essentially doubles the light flicker rate, since a LED only operates with power in one direction.

I use reflectalite bulbs, but they're based out of the UK. You might want to find someone closer.

desconhecido 07-25-18 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20468418)
Yeah I love old bikes almost as much as other folks here, but I don't enjoy the thought of using filament bulbs with no voltage regulator or engineered reflector or lens. The new lights are so much better than the old ones that it's almost a matter of life and death. I rode a country road with just a flashlight in my hand, and man, was that scary.

It is not a crazy idea to run modern LED lights off an antique Dynohub. In theory it should not work because you're supposed to have a supply of 3W, and the Dynohub is rated at 1.8W, but in practice, it is likely to work OK, especially if you don't hook up a tail light.

I have two Sports bikes with SA Dynohubs connected to recent B&M LED headlights and no tail lights. Works fine. Probably not quite as bright as with a Shimano DH-3N72 or 80, but adequate. I'm sure it puts out a lot more usable light than the old filament bulbs did. Might even be better if the output from the hub would be rectified, but I'm not sure if the B&M lights take care of that or not. You can get LED tail lights that are supposed to only use about 0.1 watt. That would present a current drain of less than 20 ma if the hub is putting out about 6v. Probably work ok. Eventually, I'll find out when I get the rear IGH 4-speed with dyno up and running.

edit:
The bikes with Dynohubs and LED headlights have battery powered LED tail lights. These Cateye and Zefal lights are inexpensive and use so little power that the batteries last a long time.

JaccoW 07-25-18 02:47 PM

Anyone interested in a 4-speed Dynohub?

https://i.imgur.com/hFmXKIO.jpg

Never seen one of these before. Some 3-speed versions but not this one.

noglider 07-25-18 03:51 PM

And it's only 30.00!

desconhecido 07-25-18 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20469385)
And it's only 30.00!

I glanced over the pictures and I don't see an indiator -- either side. Aren't those hard to source?

Also, says that the Dyno is untested. For a Dyno, I'd want the seller to test it and at least verify that it works.

thumpism 07-25-18 04:57 PM

Right fork leg bent backwards toward the frame, or bent inward toward the left fork leg? If the former, a piece of pipe or a fork straightening tool will do it. If the latter, remove the wheel and measure between the dropouts with a caliper then tug the fork leg to the right a bit (1/8-1/4" at a time, checking with the caliper) then tug the other leg to bring it back to the right OLD. Test to see if the bike rides straight when hands-off. Repeat as necessary.

Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20468483)
Unfortunately the right front fork leg is slightly bent in towards the frame and causes the wheel to want to track to the right. Any links to a safe and as-gentle-as-possible method for straightening? I assume a large pipe would also work.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5778c4224c.jpg


desconhecido 07-25-18 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 20469268)
Anyone interested in a 4-speed Dynohub?


Never seen one of these before. Some 3-speed versions but not this one.

I have one -- a 1953 -- that I have half-way built into a Super Course MK II. Bought it from a forum member.

Cute Boy Horse 07-25-18 05:26 PM

The dyno-four is uncommon in the UK, I can imagine it's gold dust in the US. Anyone ever screwed together a dyno-five? Would be a good bragging rights project.

clubman 07-25-18 05:34 PM

How did he test the gears without those somewhat rare indicators?

BigChief 07-25-18 05:41 PM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20468483)
Thanks, BigChief. Did the Danish-produced Raleighs have the Nottingham head badge and "Made in England" decals? I suppose this frame could have had new decals but from the looks of them they're pretty old. The serial is "W0..." [Edit: actually I believe it is N0...] and the SA AW hub is "7" and "80" so I'm fairly certain of the date.

I'm enjoying the DL-1. Unfortunately the right front fork leg is slightly bent in towards the frame and causes the wheel to want to track to the right. Any links to a safe and as-gentle-as-possible method for straightening? I assume a large pipe would also work.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5778c4224c.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...453fecf7a8.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c64498ff6d.jpg

I didn't look closely enough. I saw the loop frame and thought it was a big roadster. The rear carrier, seat and reflector are exactly the type used on the Danish Raleighs, but now I see this has brazed on seat stays and 26" wheels. I have never seen this model before. The fork can be straightened. A good feature of mild steel is that it can take a lot of bending without weakening .

desconhecido 07-25-18 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20469562)
The dyno-four is uncommon in the UK, I can imagine it's gold dust in the US. Anyone ever screwed together a dyno-five? Would be a good bragging rights project.

4-speed hubs can be converted to 5-speed, but my understanding is that it requires a different sun gear, which is not easily obtainable, and then a mechanism on the left of the axle to operate the second indicator, which with the 5-speed is just a small rod. The two part 4-speed indicator gets replaced with a standard 3-speed on the right and the rod on the left. Shimano bell cranks can be modified to work, but the axle on mine is not long enough, I don't think, to work.

desconhecido 07-25-18 06:24 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20469583)
How did he test the gears without those somewhat rare indicators?

That, I don't know. The ad says the gears work and then says what is pictured is what you get. My wag is that the parts were available for testing but are not included in the sale.

Lawrence_S 07-25-18 06:27 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20469501)
Right fork leg bent backwards toward the frame, or bent inward toward the left fork leg? If the former, a piece of pipe or a fork straightening tool will do it. If the latter, remove the wheel and measure between the dropouts with a caliper then tug the fork leg to the right a bit (1/8-1/4" at a time, checking with the caliper) then tug the other leg to bring it back to the right OLD. Test to see if the bike rides straight when hands-off. Repeat as necessary.

Thumpism, it's bent straight back perhaps a heavy 1/8", enough to see it visually and definitely enough to make the wheel track right when centered between the fork legs. The wheel still mounts easily in the dropouts, just cocked to one side. Thanks for the advice.

Lawrence_S 07-25-18 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20469604)
I didn't look closely enough. I saw the loop frame and thought it was a big roadster. The rear carrier, seat and reflector are exactly the type used on the Danish Raleighs, but now I see this has brazed on seat stays and 26" wheels. I have never seen this model before. The fork can be straightened. A good feature of mild steel is that it can take a lot of bending without weakening .

Thanks BigChief. I've not been able to find out any info on this iteration of the Superbe. The N0... serial number on the rear of the seat tube between the upper stays points toward Nottingham in an aught year, and since the hub was a 1980 I assumed the frame was the same. The Raleigh branded pedals have reflectors. It is very curious.

The bent fork leg is on my gent's DL-1. Going to work on it over the weekend while i wait for my Fibrax pads (I assume the former owner just ditched the original Raleigh pad holders and installed the Fibrax units) to come in. Can the KoolStop inserts be modified to work with Fibrax holders? It doesn't appear that they do, but I'm new to all the tricks.

Cute Boy Horse 07-25-18 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20469729)
Thanks BigChief. I've not been able to find out any info on this iteration of the Superbe. The N0... serial number on the rear of the seat tube between the upper stays points toward Nottingham in an aught year, and since the hub was a 1980 I assumed the frame was the same. The Raleigh branded pedals have reflectors. It is very curious.

The bent fork leg is on my gent's DL-1. Going to work on it over the weekend while i wait for my Fibrax pads (I assume the former owner just ditched the original Raleigh pad holders and installed the Fibrax units) to come in. Can the KoolStop inserts be modified to work with Fibrax holders? It doesn't appear that they do, but I'm new to all the tricks.

I believe it's definitely a British made bike. The UK superbe in the 1980s got a luggage rack and mudguard mounted tail light, although I've never seen one with a white safety patch. The late 70s was when they introduced the loop frame version too.

What has me curious is that it's black. Superbes are green, not black... Except I've come across one in perfect condition that was black. That was cable braked, rack and mudguard mounted light too. Usually the other coloured versions were called "Royal Roadster" at that time, not that you'll ever find it in a catalogue...

Does the front mudguard have any sign there was a flap attached? Two rivets near the bottom? Is there a fork lock? The superbe decal on the gearcase isn't right for the time. Could be a lower model tarted up a bit?

BigChief 07-25-18 08:33 PM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20469729)
Thanks BigChief. I've not been able to find out any info on this iteration of the Superbe. The N0... serial number on the rear of the seat tube between the upper stays points toward Nottingham in an aught year, and since the hub was a 1980 I assumed the frame was the same. The Raleigh branded pedals have reflectors. It is very curious.

The bent fork leg is on my gent's DL-1. Going to work on it over the weekend while i wait for my Fibrax pads (I assume the former owner just ditched the original Raleigh pad holders and installed the Fibrax units) to come in. Can the KoolStop inserts be modified to work with Fibrax holders? It doesn't appear that they do, but I'm new to all the tricks.

I'm very pleased with the Kool Stop salmon inserts. At first I replaced the whole units with new Fibrax and was very disappointed with them. The original Raleigh holders are curved to match the radius of the rim. The Kool Stop inserts follow that curve when you press them in. The Fibrax holders are straight so only the ends of the pads contact the rim. I suppose they wear into the curve of the rim in time, but in use, they had nowhere near the bite of the Kool Stops. I still have the Fibrax units sitting in a jar on my workbench. I did however return to Fibrax for my Rudge Sports project. This bike is different. I'm doing my best to stay true to the original design so I wanted the traditional British steel holders with black pads. They came in the mail today. The top of the package has the word "science" in large chrome lettering across the top. It's good to know they aren't relying on rumor and superstition over there. I'll see if their science can match the performance of the very untraditional looking Kool Stop Continentals I've been using on my light roadsters tomorrow.

Johno59 07-26-18 02:57 AM

LED Dynohub
 

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20468418)
Yeah I love old bikes almost as much as other folks here, but I don't enjoy the thought of using filament bulbs with no voltage regulator or engineered reflector or lens. The new lights are so much better than the old ones that it's almost a matter of life and death. I rode a country road with just a flashlight in my hand, and man, was that scary.

It is not a crazy idea to run modern LED lights off an antique Dynohub. In theory it should not work because you're supposed to have a supply of 3W, and the Dynohub is rated at 1.8W, but in practice, it is likely to work OK, especially if you don't hook up a tail light.

I just converted my 1934 and my daughters 1948 to LED. Works great . I put the regulator inside the lamp housing for aesthetics and don't fancy scratching around for a regulator after fixing a roadside puncture .
It does pulse but I want that.

The biggest difference is at very low speed (ie. Walking) you have a bright light which is handy for parking it in a darkened shed. After about 10mph the illumination is pretty steady.

Their website is a good one and covers all scenarios/ages/models and does tell you how to stop the light pulsing.

gster 07-26-18 04:41 AM

BSA for sale in Toronto
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...00291784c4.jpg
$95.00, year unknown.

BigChief 07-26-18 04:49 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 20470232)
I just converted my 1934 and my daughters 1948 to LED. Works great . I put the regulator inside the lamp housing for aesthetics and don't fancy scratching around for a regulator after fixing a roadside puncture .
It does pulse but I want that.

The biggest difference is at very low speed (ie. Walking) you have a bright light which is handy for parking it in a darkened shed. After about 10mph the illumination is pretty steady.

Their website is a good one and covers all scenarios/ages/models and does tell you how to stop the light pulsing.

I think I'll move to plan B and try the LED conversion. I like your idea of mounting the regulator inside the lamp shell.
edit
I'm at the Nicelite site now and they say their bulbs must be wired in parallel. Mine are wired in series. How did you rewire yours?

Lawrence_S 07-26-18 05:01 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20469940)
I believe it's definitely a British made bike. The UK superbe in the 1980s got a luggage rack and mudguard mounted tail light, although I've never seen one with a white safety patch. The late 70s was when they introduced the loop frame version too.


What has me curious is that it's black. Superbes are green, not black... Except I've come across one in perfect condition that was black. That was cable braked, rack and mudguard mounted light too. Usually the other coloured versions were called "Royal Roadster" at that time, not that you'll ever find it in a catalogue...


Does the front mudguard have any sign there was a flap attached? Two rivets near the bottom? Is there a fork lock? The superbe decal on the gearcase isn't right for the time. Could be a lower model tarted up a bit?


Thanks for the response and musings, Cute Boy Horse. The bike is definitely a hodge-podge. I'm reading this at work this a.m. so have not checked the front mudguard for signs of flap attachments; will do that tonight, although from the overall photos I can't see any evidence when I zoom in. Yes, there is a front fork lock and a rear stay mounted wheel lock (with both keys!) The black paint is very heavily applied to the frame to the point where it almost obscures the serial number; not so heavy on the mudguards. The junction between the rear mudguard white safety patch and the black is rather crude - overspray and seepage. I've looked for other color under the black where there are chips and abrasions but I'm not seeing any. The cable housings are black ribbed. The oddest things are the decals. Most of them appear to either have dissolved or have been crudely overpainted. Not having seen a lot of Raleigh decals I can't say for sure. This does have a front fork mounted generator feeding the rear tailight but no front light or front light bracket. Brooks B66S saddle.


So some higher-spec'd items and some not-so-high. I'm leaning towards your Tart theory.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c89e70615b.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...17ad3fb9f6.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...707a49ed11.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...327cc3026c.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e4537c3073.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...50d798ec58.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...61f8c80c30.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cb10f78bae.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4d0933cf52.jpg

Lawrence_S 07-26-18 05:06 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20469958)
I'm very pleased with the Kool Stop salmon inserts. At first I replaced the whole units with new Fibrax and was very disappointed with them. The original Raleigh holders are curved to match the radius of the rim. The Kool Stop inserts follow that curve when you press them in. The Fibrax holders are straight so only the ends of the pads contact the rim. I suppose they wear into the curve of the rim in time, but in use, they had nowhere near the bite of the Kool Stops. I still have the Fibrax units sitting in a jar on my workbench. I did however return to Fibrax for my Rudge Sports project. This bike is different. I'm doing my best to stay true to the original design so I wanted the traditional British steel holders with black pads. They came in the mail today. The top of the package has the word "science" in large chrome lettering across the top. It's good to know they aren't relying on rumor and superstition over there. I'll see if their science can match the performance of the very untraditional looking Kool Stop Continentals I've been using on my light roadsters tomorrow.

Good to know you like the Kool Stops and I'm thrilled that FINALLY someone is taking a scientific approach to brake pads! ;) I'll make do with the Fibrax units for the time being. The old pads are so worn I'm afraid they'll disintegrate at any moment and it will be metal on metal. Mind sharing your source for the correct pad holders?

Lawrence_S 07-26-18 05:09 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20470287)
BSA for sale in Toronto
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...00291784c4.jpg
$95.00, year unknown.

It seems you can't kick a rock in Toronto without discovering an English 3-speed underneath! I guess that's the price to pay for The Sun Never Setting...etc., etc. :) Down here in South Cackalacky, USA a Raleigh is a city in North Cackalacky.


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