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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

cudak888 11-04-20 05:26 PM

FYI, @Monzeglio, that particular Superbe may differ in some specifications from the typical Raleigh Sports or Superbe as is often mentioned here on the forum.

I don't know much about these - other than they're UK-market only - but they have a different (and slightly nicer) frame than the typical Sports, if a bit lacking in the traditional details one expects. The dropouts are different (I've never seen one close enough to figure out if they're the same stamped steel dropout in the fashion of the older Super Course), the lugs are generic cast (?) pieces, and the stays have spoon caps. The fenders are different than the norm as well, and the crankarms also appear different.

I've always assumed these came from Japan, but that's obviously a classic Nottingham headset. Would love to see more closeups of the details.

-Kurt

clubman 11-04-20 06:13 PM

Scandinavian market, probably Danish. I toured Denmark for a month in '93 and saw many similar models.
Downtown.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1a53fa1d9a.jpg

cudak888 11-04-20 07:02 PM

I'm liking the light blue thing to the left. It's not lugged, but it has a good look.

-Kurt

clubman 11-04-20 08:52 PM

You're a sucker for precious, shiny objects Kurt. ;)
Agree.

bluesteak 11-05-20 06:54 PM

Mongrel Lenton
 
I am posting pictures of the crankset cleaned up. Does anyone have any idea about it. It seems like it was made by Williams. It has Williams chainring square head bolts. It is designed for 1/8th chain.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3c67bf888.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...825c92961.jpeg

JaccoW 11-06-20 10:10 AM

Anybody in need of a really big frame? :P

Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 21777859)

EMPO 3-speed bike - Big frame (75cm / 29 inches) €295 in The Hague, the Netherlands

Marktplaats

http://i.imgur.com/KtUWupw.jpg


Ballenxj 11-06-20 04:29 PM


Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 21777863)
Anybody in need of a really big frame? :P

WOW! I'm thinking that Bike weighs close to double what a standard one might.

clubman 11-06-20 05:05 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 21777087)
I am posting pictures of the crankset cleaned up. Does anyone have any idea about it. It seems like it was made by Williams. It has Williams chainring square head bolts. It is designed for 1/8th chain.

Williams would have a date code but perhaps they made them for Raleigh without. Nicklin also made cranks for Raleigh. Mid 50's Lenton cranks were fluted and usually didn't have the heron motif. Like this

bluesteak 11-06-20 06:16 PM

Is the ďPĒ on the inside of left crankarm a date code?

clubman 11-06-20 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 21778547)
Is the ďPĒ on the inside of left crankarm a date code?

It's possible but Williams usually dated both crankarms and rings. P is a valid date code for 1930.

Rherdegen 11-07-20 01:30 PM

Tube information and recommendation
 
Once again, I come to members of this forum for help and advice. Iím in the final steps of a refurb of my Ď51 Raleigh Superbe Sports Touring, a bike which hasnít seen the light of day in probably 30 years, and which Iíve had in pieces for pretty much that whole time. My plan was to put on new tubes and tires due to age of ones it came with. And I figured I could just use new tubes with Schraeder valves instead of the old tubes with a woods/Dunlop valves as I believed other people had done in similar refurb projects. No dice. The holes in the old rims are just a bit too small to accommodate the Schraeder valves on the domestic tubes I bought. So...is there a brand of domestic US tube with a Schraeder valve that is small enough to get through the hole in the rim of a Ď51 Raleigh? Or, do I just need to bite the bullet and get tubes with Woods valves? And if the latter, does anyone have a recommended domestic source of tubes with Woods valves, or do I need to get them from an overseas source (and pay a bunch extra for shipping)? My main reason for wanting the Schraeder valve tubes is that everything else I own (well, almost everything) has Schraeder, and a domestic source really for speed of getting them and saving on shipping.

Oh, and it is a 26 x 1 3/8Ē tube/tire.

Iím grateful for any advice you have!

bluesteak 11-07-20 01:33 PM

Mongrel lenton
 
I couldnít access your link but 1930 seems to old. The mounting holes in the chain ring are on 4Ē centers. I have seen similar herons on double chain ring cranks from around 1960. I will attach a couple more photos. Who made them and when may remain a mystery.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...61bdf195e.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e0e5a2429.jpeg

gster 11-08-20 06:09 AM


Originally Posted by Rherdegen (Post 21779480)
Once again, I come to members of this forum for help and advice. Iím in the final steps of a refurb of my Ď51 Raleigh Superbe Sports Touring, a bike which hasnít seen the light of day in probably 30 years, and which Iíve had in pieces for pretty much that whole time. My plan was to put on new tubes and tires due to age of ones it came with. And I figured I could just use new tubes with Schraeder valves instead of the old tubes with a woods/Dunlop valves as I believed other people had done in similar refurb projects. No dice. The holes in the old rims are just a bit too small to accommodate the Schraeder valves on the domestic tubes I bought. So...is there a brand of domestic US tube with a Schraeder valve that is small enough to get through the hole in the rim of a Ď51 Raleigh? Or, do I just need to bite the bullet and get tubes with Woods valves? And if the latter, does anyone have a recommended domestic source of tubes with Woods valves, or do I need to get them from an overseas source (and pay a bunch extra for shipping)? My main reason for wanting the Schraeder valve tubes is that everything else I own (well, almost everything) has Schraeder, and a domestic source really for speed of getting them and saving on shipping.

Oh, and it is a 26 x 1 3/8Ē tube/tire.

Iím grateful for any advice you have!

I've encountered some tight fitting valves but have always been able to pull it through.
Can you not just ream out the hole on the rim a bit?

Ballenxj 11-08-20 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by Rherdegen (Post 21779480)
Once again, I come to members of this forum for help and advice. I’m in the final steps of a refurb of my ‘51 Raleigh Superbe Sports Touring, a bike which hasn’t seen the light of day in probably 30 years, and which I’ve had in pieces for pretty much that whole time. My plan was to put on new tubes and tires due to age of ones it came with. And I figured I could just use new tubes with Schraeder valves instead of the old tubes with a woods/Dunlop valves as I believed other people had done in similar refurb projects. No dice. The holes in the old rims are just a bit too small to accommodate the Schraeder valves on the domestic tubes I bought. So...is there a brand of domestic US tube with a Schraeder valve that is small enough to get through the hole in the rim of a ‘51 Raleigh? Or, do I just need to bite the bullet and get tubes with Woods valves? And if the latter, does anyone have a recommended domestic source of tubes with Woods valves, or do I need to get them from an overseas source (and pay a bunch extra for shipping)? My main reason for wanting the Schraeder valve tubes is that everything else I own (well, almost everything) has Schraeder, and a domestic source really for speed of getting them and saving on shipping.

Oh, and it is a 26 x 1 3/8” tube/tire.

I’m grateful for any advice you have!

If you wish to convert to Schrader valves, a 21/64th drill bit and a drill motor will get the job done. I have done the Presta to Schrader conversion more than a few times on other Bicycles with good results.
Just be sure to deburr the holes after. ;)

jamesdak 11-08-20 09:23 AM

I'm feeling the lack of love for my three speed, LOL! After years I finally had to admit it's just too small for me. Found a replacement bike for it and posted it locally. Down to asking a give away price and still no love for it. I got a feeling it's going to wind up as a donation to the bike coop. :ride:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4f3d37fa37.jpg
Rough old girl but she get's the job done.

RobHalligan 11-08-20 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by albrt (Post 21771841)
The wife would love to see a couple more pictures of that one. Any idea what year? Does it have the rubberoid Mesinger saddle like ours?

Here's the green Manhattan I picked up for Cory. '59 on the shell.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d9904e5d4.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bdef317edd.jpg

albrt 11-08-20 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by RobHalligan (Post 21780623)
Here's the green Manhattan I picked up for Cory. '59 on the shell.

Thanks for posting these! The wife will be in DC next week, but not with the Manhattan.

noglider 11-08-20 08:26 PM

@jamesdak that bike would sell for hundreds of dollars here in New York.

cszipper 11-08-20 08:27 PM


Originally Posted by Rherdegen (Post 21779480)
The holes in the old rims are just a bit too small to accommodate the Schraeder valves on the domestic tubes I bought. So...is there a brand of domestic US tube with a Schraeder valve that is small enough to get through the hole in the rim of a Ď51 Raleigh? Or, do I just need to bite the bullet and get tubes with Woods valves? And if the latter, does anyone have a recommended domestic source of tubes with Woods valves, or do I need to get them from an overseas source (and pay a bunch extra for shipping)?

The schrader valves on the tubes that Raleigh specced on its new bikes back then had a fully threaded stem (same as you find on most presta valves). Because of this, the valve stems were slightly smaller in diameter than the rubber coated schrader valves found on most modern tubes. I measured three old fully threaded vales and they were all right at .300". Three modern tubes measured between .320" and .340". I measured the valve holes in three Raleigh made Endrick pattern rims, and all were right at .322".

As a practical matter, since all of the extra diameter is rubber, a little wiggling has always gotten modern tubes into my old Rudges without any trouble. I mostly use Bell tubes from Walmart, but have also used Kenda, Sunlite, and other brands. I saw a cheap 29" mountain bike last year that had a new threaded schrader valve in the tube, but do not know where you would go about getting one or if they are available in other sizes.

-Carl

albrt 11-08-20 08:30 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 21781195)
@jamesdak that bike would sell for hundreds of dollars here in New York.

If it's as clean as it looks in the picture we could get $125 here in Phoenix. Maybe more with the nice rack.

albrt 11-08-20 08:32 PM


Originally Posted by cszipper (Post 21781197)
The schrader valves on the tubes that Raleigh specced on its new bikes back then had a fully threaded stem (same as you find on most presta valves). Because of this, the valve stems were slightly smaller in diameter than the rubber coated schrader valves found on most modern tubes. I measured three old fully threaded vales and they were all right at .300". Three modern tubes measured between .320" and .340". I measured the valve holes in three Raleigh made Endrick pattern rims, and all were right at .322".

As a practical matter, since all of the extra diameter is rubber, a little wiggling has always gotten modern tubes into my old Rudges without any trouble. I mostly use Bell tubes from Walmart, but have also used Kenda, Sunlite, and other brands. I saw a cheap 29" mountain bike last year that had a new threaded schrader valve in the tube, but do not know where you would go about getting one or if they are available in other sizes.

-Carl

I think Schwalbe tubes are threaded like that, with a little retainer ring that screws all the way down to the rim. The ones for Bromptons are like that anyway.

reelfishin 11-09-20 12:59 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 21781195)
@jamesdak that bike would sell for hundreds of dollars here in New York.



There's been quite a few listed in South Jersey and Central Jersey on CL lately, most in the $200 range but nothing seems to sell.
I've watched various Raleigh and Raleigh built bikes sit for months unsold lately. I looked at this one:
https://southjersey.craigslist.org/b...198264281.html.
Its dusty from sitting but a really clean old bike. I bought a similar Robin Hood off the same seller.
I think he also had a few matching ladies models and a smaller 26" Sprite.

Rherdegen 11-09-20 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by cszipper (Post 21781197)
The schrader valves on the tubes that Raleigh specced on its new bikes back then had a fully threaded stem (same as you find on most presta valves). Because of this, the valve stems were slightly smaller in diameter than the rubber coated schrader valves found on most modern tubes. I measured three old fully threaded vales and they were all right at .300". Three modern tubes measured between .320" and .340". I measured the valve holes in three Raleigh made Endrick pattern rims, and all were right at .322".

As a practical matter, since all of the extra diameter is rubber, a little wiggling has always gotten modern tubes into my old Rudges without any trouble. I mostly use Bell tubes from Walmart, but have also used Kenda, Sunlite, and other brands. I saw a cheap 29" mountain bike last year that had a new threaded schrader valve in the tube, but do not know where you would go about getting one or if they are available in other sizes.

-Carl

OKóthis is helpful and encouraging. Iíll try again to install a tube in one of the rims and just use a bit more wiggling and force. I hesitated to do so first time around because I didnít want to tear up a tube by trying to force it through a too-small hole that potentially might be returned for refund. And I will try to get an accurate measurement on both rim hole and tube diameters, just to satisfy curiosity.

Finally, I knew that I could ream/file/drill out the hole a little bit, but I always hate making even such minor modifications to a vintage piece unless absolutely essential. Installing tubes/tires on this Ď51 Raleigh refurb is the last step in making it roadworthy, and I just donít want eagerness to get it done when so close to completion to drive me to take desperate measures!

Thanks to all for the help!

nlerner 11-09-20 09:27 PM

23" Raleigh Sports in the Boston area for $75. Looks complete sans chainguard:

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bi...227887221.html

cudak888 11-09-20 11:18 PM


Originally Posted by albrt (Post 21781209)
I think Schwalbe tubes are threaded like that, with a little retainer ring that screws all the way down to the rim. The ones for Bromptons are like that anyway.

Same for Specialized tubes. Picked up some EA3's recently, fully threaded.

-Kurt


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