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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

johnnyspaghetti 11-13-17 07:16 AM


Originally Posted by Charmlessman (Post 19989064)

I have zero experience working on bikes but find myself now with at least 30 days of free time until I start anew job.

Should I go with the cheaper one? How hard is it to work on these bikes?

Things I look at when I buy one of these old bikes is screws & nuts & bolts for marred hex corners, screwdriver slots marred/rounded, these are signs that some hack has worked on the bike with ill fitting tools-don't be that guy-use wrench's/tools that fit properly for British Whitworth standards.
I look for scratches on the handle bar bends & pedal bearing caps, axle threads
Rusty chrome usually cleans up very well, if chrome is peeling that's not good.
Old decals are fragile clean with care. Most old paint will come back to a point & look better.
Straight wheels.

Some of the things I stated here can be a buyers negotiating chip and not necessarily a reason not to buy, proper fasteners are a hassle to find replacements.

All Sturmey Acrher 3 speed hubs are dated month & year 72-6 for instance, would be June/1972 I would look for pre 1975 bikes, the older they get the better they get.


All the information you need to learn about the maintenance of these Raleigh's is here in this forum maybe all is in this 1st thread you posted in. Any task at hand you will find guidance with here.

Charmlessman 11-13-17 08:37 AM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gster (Post 19989265)
I would opt for the better of the the two as well.
The more complete and original the better.
Leather seat? Pump. etc?
These add value.
Please post some more photos.

Here are a few more pics of each bike.

@johnnyspaghetti , thanks, I am searching on different areas and this morning a few came up.

@BigChief thanks , I am 5 6 so its not a problem for me but thank you for pointing that out, actually I think I like the ladies version better.

johnnyspaghetti 11-13-17 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19989323)
Welcome! I do have one bit of important advice for you. These bikes come in 2 different frame sizes. 21" and 23". If you are a taller person, say 5'10" or more, I would limit any purchase to the taller 23" framed bikes. Even in crummy craigslist photos, it's easy to see what frame size it is by looking at the steering tube length. The difference is obvious.

I have a 21" ride pretty much everyday for going on 4 years and still do most days. It is too small being over 6' tall but use to it and happy to have a bike that is there outside 24/7 all seasons. I bought a parts bike cheap in rough condition 1962 Sports 23" and after looking it over-Why would I remove a 1 part off of this complete bicycle after a little grease & oil this bike rides so much more comfortably than the 21" the riding enjoyment is way better. After going through every ball bearing and cleaning up the paint & chrome wah-la! its too nice to leave outside.

BigChief 11-13-17 09:50 AM


Originally Posted by Charmlessman (Post 19989506)
Here are a few more pics of each bike.

@johnnyspaghetti , thanks, I am searching on different areas and this morning a few came up.

@BigChief thanks , I am 5 6 so its not a problem for me but thank you for pointing that out, actually I think I like the ladies version better.

Both of those are 23". At 5'6" you'd be fine with a 21" or a stepthrough. Most of the stepthroughs you find are 19 1/2" . That makes it easier. Tall frames are generally harder to find. Good luck with the hunt. Let us know what you find.

73emgee 11-13-17 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 19988477)
I'm curious, did you ever find out more about this bike? Specifically, any idea what the BB threading is? I have my eye on one locally with a weird project in mind

Nope, it seems to be a mystery bike.

Charmlessman 11-13-17 01:42 PM

5 Attachment(s)
I think the hunt is over. I talked to the seller on this bike which is about an hour away from home but I believe this might be a better choice. Any advice on the saddle that it has? Should I replace it?

johnnyspaghetti 11-13-17 03:24 PM

That one looks very good. 1965-1967 era I'm pretty sure. I have a 69' Raleigh Superbe that came with those type of pedals. They likely replacements because pedal reflectors really didn't begin until the 70's, I could be mistaken. I don't like then as much as the rubber blocks pedals with the screw on bearing caps. As far as the seat goes it looks to be in good shape Use it if you don't like it-upgrade. May be it will be comfortable for you. A good long ride and you'll know if you want something else. The handle grips are wrong. Seems like small but I would give it 1 demerit for grips & 1 demerit for pedals. That bike looks like it will cleanup real nice. I don't know what others think about the pedals, it would be a considerable cost to replace them. Good grips are not cheap either.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQOv5jmXOI...0/IMG_3370.JPG

BigChief 11-13-17 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by Charmlessman (Post 19990281)
I think the hunt is over. I talked to the seller on this bike which is about an hour away from home but I believe this might be a better choice. Any advice on the saddle that it has? Should I replace it?

An excellent choice. A classic late 60s Raleigh. I like it. It would have originally come with a leather Brooks saddle and in my opinion, even though it would be expensive, this bike deserves one. My personal pick would be a Brooks B66 but saddles are personal things. Opinions vary. Congrats on a great find. This bike should clean up nicely.
Here's the 1968 catalog page.

http://www.jaysmarine.com/1968raleighcat_us_03_lg.jpg

gster 11-13-17 07:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19990614)
That one looks very good. 1965-1967 era I'm pretty sure. I have a 69' Raleigh Superbe that came with those type of pedals. They likely replacements because pedal reflectors really didn't begin until the 70's, I could be mistaken. I don't like then as much as the rubber blocks pedals with the screw on bearing caps. As far as the seat goes it looks to be in good shape Use it if you don't like it-upgrade. May be it will be comfortable for you. A good long ride and you'll know if you want something else. The handle grips are wrong. Seems like small but I would give it 1 demerit for grips & 1 demerit for pedals. That bike looks like it will cleanup real nice. I don't know what others think about the pedals, it would be a considerable cost to replace them. Good grips are not cheap either.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GQOv5jmXOI...0/IMG_3370.JPG

I'm a big fan of these MKS pedals.
They cost about $30.00/pair here in Canada,
so I imagine $24 + US.
Real rubber NOT plastic.
Attachment 588806

jon.612 11-13-17 08:04 PM

1934 Raleigh Sports frame
 
5 Attachment(s)
A while ago I bought a Sturmey Archer K Quadrant shifter. I decided I needed to build a bike around it. I just bought this 1934 Raleigh Sports frame, which will use 1960's vintage parts and new lauterwasser bars to complete a roadworthy bike. If I find 1930s vintage parts, the newer parts will get replaced, but they are difficult to source and are sometimes more expensive than the bike is worth. We'll see. Anyway, it's winter here in Minnesota and I work in the garage, which will be likely below freezing until April. I'm in no hurry. This will give me something to dream about this winter.

SirMike1983 11-13-17 08:13 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19988476)
Fine looking machine.
I have one small note.
I think the fulcrum stop should be closer to the front.
It should be 2 1/4"- 2 1/2" back from the lug.
I have an unmolested Superbe in the garage that I use as a guide for placements/ cable lengths etc.
The chainguard is a good choice over a full case as it's much easier to service the rear hub, fix a flat etc.

That measurement made me curious, so I checked a Sports that has its original cable set up. The fulcrum there is right at 2 1/2 inches back from the lug, so that must have been about where they were standard. I moved the rod brake bike's fulcrum to 2 1/2 inches this evening.

SirMike1983 11-13-17 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19991167)
I'm a big fan of these MKS pedals.
They cost about $30.00/pair here in Canada,
so I imagine $24 + US.
Real rubber NOT plastic.
Attachment 588806

I've never actually been able to find these here in the US - only seen the 3000R with reflectors. I've been using a stock of unused German waffle block pedals from the 1960s I've built up, but those are starting to run out now. I think I'm down to my last set in the parts box. I have some pairs of Raleigh pedals, but the blocks tend to spin more than the German pedals, which have spikes set into the block ends.

Does anyone have source for MKS 3000S (without reflectors) here in the US?

I have a feeling the CPSC reflector requirement is part of why I'm seeing only the 3000R's. I have a pair of MKS rat traps on my Raleigh Grand Prix - they make good pedals.

gster 11-13-17 09:18 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19991296)
That measurement made me curious, so I checked a Sports that has its original cable set up. The fulcrum there is right at 2 1/2 inches back from the lug, so that must have been about where they were standard. I moved the rod brake bike's fulcrum to 2 1/2 inches this evening.

I was thinking a while back how this was measured at the factory.
Three fingers is about right and a lot easier than a tape measure.
Just like a good glass of free pour Scotch.
Attachment 588814

gster 11-13-17 09:21 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19991305)
I've never actually been able to find these here in the US - only seen the 3000R with reflectors. I've been using a stock of unused German waffle block pedals from the 1960s I've built up, but those are starting to run out now. I think I'm down to my last set in the parts box. I have some pairs of Raleigh pedals, but the blocks tend to spin more than the German pedals, which have spikes set into the block ends.

Does anyone have source for MKS 3000S (without reflectors) here in the US?

I have a feeling the CPSC reflector requirement is part of why I'm seeing only the 3000R's. I have a pair of MKS rat traps on my Raleigh Grand Prix - they make good pedals.

They're not that easy to find here in Toronto.
I've been running a pair on my everyday Superbe for 4 years or so.
Damn fine pedals!

gster 11-13-17 09:30 PM


Originally Posted by Ballenxj (Post 19988948)
What is going on with that rear hub? Can you post photos specifically of it? Looks almost like it has an engine? :foo:

It is.
Found on the interweb.

SirMike1983 11-13-17 10:50 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19991423)
I was thinking a while back how this was measured at the factory.
Three fingers is about right and a lot easier than a tape measure.
Just like a good glass of free pour Scotch.
Attachment 588814

That looks right to me. You measure in digits rather than inches. :thumb:

SirMike1983 11-13-17 10:57 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19991429)
They're not that easy to find here in Toronto.
I've been running a pair on my everyday Superbe for 4 years or so.
Damn fine pedals!

They look good - I'll locate some and try them. The money has gone out of rubber block pedals mostly these days. Most stuff is cheap, plastic blocks and crummy bearings with poor spin quality. The last set of MKS pedals I bought were, by far, the best new-production pedals I've bought in memory.

johnnyspaghetti 11-14-17 12:20 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Just delivered from the northland. $40 American. Small frame. Hub dated 64' some cable issues, all looks like a good starting point.
Attachment 588824

Attachment 588825

Attachment 588826

Attachment 588827

BigChief 11-14-17 08:10 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19991663)
Just delivered from the northland. $40 American. Small frame. Hub dated 62' some cable issues, all looks like a good starting point.

I like project bikes like this. Really in need of rescue, but enough original features left that it will end up looking sharp when you're finished. Very satisfying. Cable problems? That's too bad. It's always nice to just clean up and lube the originals on Sports from this era with their calipers that are dedicated for those ball end cables. Try to save the original fluted white housings if you can.

johnnyspaghetti 11-14-17 08:40 AM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19992045)
I like project bikes like this. Really in need of rescue, but enough original features left that it will end up looking sharp when you're finished. Very satisfying. Cable problems? That's too bad. It's always nice to just clean up and lube the originals on Sports from this era with their calipers that are dedicated for those ball end cables. Try to save the original fluted white housings if you can.

I bought this one texting only never spoke a word to the guy. My firend has a lake home 6 miles from the location picked it up for me. The basket screwed up the cable casing ends mostly the thumb trigger end. The chrome is excellent scratches are pretty much limited to the top bar. I don't have a clue about the chainguard mounting. The rubber blocks on the drive side pedal show extreme wear yet the bearing cap is scratch free.the LF pedal has very little block wear. Sheet metal parts are dent free.Attachment 588855

My 23" 62' has the barrel type frt. dropouts & BB oil port, this bike has blade type dropout fork no BB oiler. Frt. hubs are different the 23' axle has a keyway milled in axle. Different fender brace fasteners. Missing the nice heavy outer axle washer. I think I have one.
Attachment 588857Attachment 588858

wahoonc 11-14-17 11:26 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19992126)
I bought this one texting only never spoke a word to the guy. My firend has a lake home 6 miles from the location picked it up for me. The basket screwed up the cable casing ends mostly the thumb trigger end. The chrome is excellent scratches are pretty much limited to the top bar. I don't have a clue about the chainguard mounting. The rubber blocks on the drive side pedal show extreme wear yet the bearing cap is scratch free.the LF pedal has very little block wear. Sheet metal parts are dent free. ~snip~

That pedal looks like chemical breakdown of the rubber. It could have been caused by exposure to long term UV or possibly something else like a gas can. I had one handle grip on a Huffy get all slimy and nasty because a piece of poly tarp was over it.:foo:

Aaron:)

restlessswind 11-14-17 01:01 PM

Anybody have an extra center thru-bolt for a rear side pull Sports caliper. (2" long with slotted head?)

johnnyspaghetti 11-14-17 10:21 PM

yes, all these parts belong in a place. Its more like adoption.

SirMike1983 11-15-17 11:12 PM

A nice old Rudge Sports for sale in Portland, Maine - early post-war tall frame.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-23-Vin...kAAOSws8VZ3-9t

Do believe it has the deluxe stainless steel rims of that era as well. Nice bike.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/oGkAA...9t/s-l1600.jpg

BigChief 11-15-17 11:24 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19996234)
A nice old Rudge Sports for sale in Portland, Maine - early post-war tall frame.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-23-Vin...kAAOSws8VZ3-9t

Do believe it has the deluxe stainless steel rims of that era as well. Nice bike.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/oGkAA...9t/s-l1600.jpg

This bike started off at $80 on craigslist a few weeks ago. We'll see how well the flip goes.

ko57 11-16-17 12:36 AM

Hercules...
 
johnnyspaghetti...
That is a nice Hercules, never saw one that color!
Does the front axle also have an oil port?
I have a black 61-62 SA 3spd Hercules, it also has the bottom bracket oil port and one for the front axle.
Haven't ridden in a while but will bring it out on my days off.

johnnyspaghetti 11-16-17 04:19 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by ko57 (Post 19996298)
johnnyspaghetti...
That is a nice Hercules, never saw one that color!
Does the front axle also have an oil port?
I have a black 61-62 SA 3spd Hercules, it also has the bottom bracket oil port and one for the front axle.
Haven't ridden in a while but will bring it out on my days off.

The bike is actually a Raleigh Sports & is essentually the same as a Herc. I mis read the hub stating it was 62'. it is actually a 64'. Oddly I did have my eyes examined for a Tuesday appt. The fender cleaned up well but my pin striping attempt is not the greatest. The phone pic sucks. I'll repaint the white tail.

Attachment 589059

johnnyspaghetti 11-16-17 04:49 AM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 19992585)
That pedal looks like chemical breakdown of the rubber. It could have been caused by exposure to long term UV or possibly something else like a gas can. I had one handle grip on a Huffy get all slimy and nasty because a piece of poly tarp was over it.:foo:

Aaron:)

You may be on the right track on that condition cause. The other pedal is not as bad but similar looking.

johnnyspaghetti 11-16-17 05:07 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19996246)
This bike started off at $80 on craigslist a few weeks ago. We'll see how well the flip goes.

Gee wizz so far away.

plympton 11-16-17 06:34 AM

Restoration projects are going slowly. There hasn't been enough bad weather to keep me inside. I stripping the paint and boy is it tough.I have strip a lot of paint in my day but that was when paint stripper was deadly stuff. Another day or two stripping and then, reassemble hubs, wash parts in spic and span powder form (this is what jewelry maker use) rinse, Oxylic acid, rinse, then I can move on to paint. I get an error message when I try to upload pics that says a security token is missing?


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