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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

clubman 05-12-15 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 17797801)
Yeah, The fenders and brakes are very different than other re-badged Raleighs I've seen. Still, I'm saying Raleigh because of the rear dropouts, the shape of the head tube lug, the chainguard and the fork. I have a Royal Scot badged Raleigh with that exact same fork and crown cover. I can't see from the photo, but if there's a Sir Walter stamp on the crank, that would seal the deal for me.

That looks like a typical Raleigh re-brand except someone swapped in the Weinman brakes, probably when they couldn't find the double ended ladies cable set. The cables don't match at the gear housing is more weathered.

edit. Of course the 26 tpi thread will be the final judge

desconhecido 05-12-15 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 17797801)
Yeah, The fenders and brakes are very different than other re-badged Raleighs I've seen. Still, I'm saying Raleigh because of the rear dropouts, the shape of the head tube lug, the chainguard and the fork. I have a Royal Scot badged Raleigh with that exact same fork and crown cover. I can't see from the photo, but if there's a Sir Walter stamp on the crank, that would seal the deal for me.

The world is a funny place. The red British bike just above your post looks to have the same fenders as the MN and KC Populars. The brake levers on the KC bike look to be replacements -- perhaps the calipers are as well. It's odd that both the bikes would have replacement brakes, but it's not impossible.

You're right about the chain gaurd on the KC bike, looks exactly like a Raleigh.

Anyway, after seeing the Riviera, I'm more inclined to think the Populars are Raleighs.

desconhecido 05-12-15 10:40 AM


Originally Posted by Track10 (Post 17797769)
Hi Guys

I was interested in the idea of getting an old Raleigh 3 Speed but this thread pushed me over the edge so I have just bought one from ebay. I have to say it isn't at all like the lovely examples you have all been showing off.

I would love it if someone out there knew a bit more about this model as I cannot seem to find much about it but I have seen a few ( just a few ) for sale here in the UK.

The model is called a "Riviera" according to the top tube sticker. The rear hub is stamped 67 as are the other two I had seen for sale over the last 6 months. I do not be able to seem to match the frame number to any lists though - unless I am looking in the wrong places ?

It looks like the number is 77241HB

Anyway here he is ( I am guessing it is a he ? )

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450862http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450863http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450864http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450865

Hopefully one of you will know more about it

... Rob

Every photo or reference to a Raleigh Riviera that I can find is from the UK or the Continent.Other than the chain guard and fenders it looks like a Raleigh Sports and my guess is that they are very similar bikes. Yours has neat details like the branded set stay caps.

I saw a photo of a Raleigh imported to America the other day with that same chain guard style -- Space Rider. I think the Space Rider might have been a smaller bike than the Sports (and similar bikes) with the 650A wheels. Some Space Riders had curved top tubes, but not all. I may have seen a photo of one of the Raleigh Sports imported to the US by AMF that also had that guard but can't recall. That may have been in this thread, but how can you tell? This thread is like the top of my desk (yes, I have a desk). There's a lot there and you can't find anything when you want it.

I think you will be amazed at how well the bike cleans up. From what I can tell, the paint and frame decals/paint lettering all look pretty good. The chrome will clean up really well, too, though some of it will probably always show some freckles where it looks like the chrome is gone and you can see down to the copper. The color looks like what Raleigh called Carmine Red. We have a Super Course MK II and a Sprite in that color and it's a very nice red when cleaned and polished. Hard to touch up, though. Some raspberry nail polishes are close. I think the color is actually a translucent red over a gold or bronze base layer.

gna 05-12-15 08:34 PM

5 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Lastillluce (Post 17797662)
The bike was originally purchased at a yard sale in the Kansas City area in the late 70s early 80s by my father. It could certainly be rational to have gotten here via Minnesota. .

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450870 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450871
@gna I'm curious if during your restoration you had any issues with the spokes being too long?

No, I got the frame for $5. No wheelset. I'm cobbling it together from parts I have laying around here.

I took a few more crappy cell pics.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451034http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451035http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451036http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451037http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451038

No "Nottingham England", no Sir Walter that I could see. Lastillluce's has a 60 date on the hub, and mine has a bottom bracket oiler, so 1960 seems about right. As a guess, and only that, wasn't 1960 when Raleigh finally consolidated most of the British cycle makes under their roof? I suppose they could have tossed these bikes together from fenders, brakes, and other parts from other makes that they were consolidating. Just a guess.

I suppose we could check the threading on the bottom bracket or the fork and see if standard Raleigh 26 tpi parts fit. That would settle the debate for me.

Narhay 05-12-15 11:04 PM


Originally Posted by Track10 (Post 17797769)
Hi Guys

I was interested in the idea of getting an old Raleigh 3 Speed but this thread pushed me over the edge so I have just bought one from ebay. I have to say it isn't at all like the lovely examples you have all been showing off.

I would love it if someone out there knew a bit more about this model as I cannot seem to find much about it but I have seen a few ( just a few ) for sale here in the UK.

The model is called a "Riviera" according to the top tube sticker. The rear hub is stamped 67 as are the other two I had seen for sale over the last 6 months. I do not be able to seem to match the frame number to any lists though - unless I am looking in the wrong places ?

It looks like the number is 77241HB

Anyway here he is ( I am guessing it is a he ? )

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450862http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450863http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450864http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=450865

Hopefully one of you will know more about it

... Rob

Pretty cool. I think if you take some time to disassemble, clean up and get to the bearings it will turn out quite nicely.

Fidbloke 05-13-15 10:45 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17786151)
Here is a link to tri sports website - home of supplies for the triathlete. 650c is more common than we think. I kept seeing this size crop up in various places relating to triathlons. Surprised me.

I believe it is for smaller sized bicycles. I don't know the history behind how the 650c is having a resurgence among the triathlete crowd, but I'm sore information could be sourced for the curious minded.


650c Racing Corner

Here is an article from cervelo.com answering the question regarding 650c tires.

What is your opinion on 650c vs 700c for smaller cyclists? - Cervélo

There's a company in the UK selling new bikes that are based on 650c wheels & tyres. I think the bikes are called 'Tokyobike' or something like that. They have normal sized frames, so the wheels tend to look a little bit 'dinky' as the frame size inreases.

desconhecido 05-14-15 12:10 AM


Originally Posted by Cascades T700 (Post 17794238)
I know I'm late to the thread, yet I've only joined the forum an hour ago. Back in 1959, as a six year old child, my parents got me a Raleigh 3 speed "English Racer". It had the SA internal gears with the "trigger"shifter and the seat stay mounted dynamo for the head and tail lights. It was a very nice bike that I rode until I out grew it. That bike gelled my aesthetics of what a bike should be. Hadn't thought of that bike in years and yet just last week, I bought a vintage T700 which is not exactly like, still the lines and vintage styling are what appeals to me.

When I was six I weighed about 45 pounds and was probably about three feet tall. I had a bicycle with 20" wheels till a neighbor ran it over in the driveway. I guess I was about 8 when I got what we called a 24" Schwinn. Of course, it was not a 24" bike, but about a 15" bike with 24" wheels, which, of course, didn't measure 24". It was way too big for me but the way I learned to ride on that bike, with the seat probably too high and my legs extended farther than proper at the bottom of the stroke is still the way I ride a bicycle. Nobody knew about standover height back then so it never bothered me that if one foot was on the ground the other was about six inches in the air. Never had a need to put two feet on the ground at once, one was always on a pedal or above a pedal with my leg resting on the top bar. They didn't size by fit back then, they sized by age.

Anyway, you must have been a big six-year-old if you were riding a Sports. Raleigh did make small bikes -- the Space Rider and the Colt, but I don't know if they were 3-speed bikes or not. The town I grew up in in central Wisconsin was pretty much a Schwinn town. Almost every kid had one and the ones who didn't had other American made bike that we would call cruisers today.

Cascades T700 05-14-15 01:09 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17803746)
When I was six I weighed about 45 pounds and was probably about three feet tall. I had a bicycle with 20" wheels till a neighbor ran it over in the driveway. I guess I was about 8 when I got what we called a 24" Schwinn. Of course, it was not a 24" bike, but about a 15" bike with 24" wheels, which, of course, didn't measure 24". It was way too big for me but the way I learned to ride on that bike, with the seat probably too high and my legs extended farther than proper at the bottom of the stroke is still the way I ride a bicycle. Nobody knew about standover height back then so it never bothered me that if one foot was on the ground the other was about six inches in the air. Never had a need to put two feet on the ground at once, one was always on a pedal or above a pedal with my leg resting on the top bar. They didn't size by fit back then, they sized by age.

Anyway, you must have been a big six-year-old if you were riding a Sports. Raleigh did make small bikes -- the Space Rider and the Colt, but I don't know if they were 3-speed bikes or not. The town I grew up in in central Wisconsin was pretty much a Schwinn town. Almost every kid had one and the ones who didn't had other American made bike that we would call cruisers today.

Well, I don't rightly remember to model name of the Raleigh bike I had as a child. That was over 50 years ago! We called it an "English Racer". I described it accurately as to being 3 speed internal hub gearing with a trigger shifter, red in color with white lettering outlined in gold, rear dynamo to run stock chrome silver bullet style head light and tail light with cone shaped red lens. I think it had 24" wheels but couldn't swear to it. I do not remember the frame size but yes I always was the biggest and tallest kid in my Dallas, Texas school class from first grade on. At nine years old I wore a men's size 9 shoe and was close to 100 lbs., At 16, I was six foot two inches tall with size 12 shoe and weighed 160 lbs and was skinny as a rail. I hit six five by age 18 with size 13 shoe and weighed 175 lbs. At age 62, I remain six foot five inches tall, wear a size 15 EE shoe and ride a 62 centimeter frame bike. So I guess I did qualify as a "big kid" and a big adult too. :-P

desconhecido 05-14-15 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by Cascades T700 (Post 17803802)
Well, I don't rightly remember to model name of the Raleigh bike I had as a child. That was over 50 years ago! We called it an "English Racer". I described it accurately as to being 3 speed internal hub gearing with a trigger shifter, red in color with white lettering outlined in gold, rear dynamo to run stock chrome silver bullet style head light and tail light with cone shaped red lens. I think it had 24" wheels but couldn't swear to it. I do not remember the frame size but yes I always was the biggest and tallest kid in my Dallas, Texas school class from first grade on. At nine years old I wore a men's size 9 shoe and was close to 100 lbs., At 16, I was six foot two inches tall with size 12 shoe and weighed 160 lbs and was skinny as a rail. I hit six five by age 18 with size 13 shoe and weighed 175 lbs. At age 62, I remain six foot five inches tall, wear a size 15 EE shoe and ride a 62 centimeter frame bike. So I guess I did qualify as a "big kid" and a big adult too. :-P

I'm 64 but sometimes lie and say I'm 63. I think there may have been a day or two back in the 70 s when i was 5'7", but most of the time I've been 5'6". I don't think I've shrunk much, but always look the other way when they weigh me at the doctor's. The 21"Sports are really a bit too big for me, but I'm used to it.

looks like Raleigh had at least three models in the American market designed for youngsters: Colt, Space rider, and Mountie. Colt (26") and Space Rider (24") could have gears (a lot of them with coaster brake). The Mountie was 20" wheels and probably ss only. Don't remember any of these from back then. Only images on the interwebs today.

We were a small town full of short people. Don't know why. There were only a couple kids in my high school taller than 6', and not by much. We had a bad basketball team. Our town was populated mostly by Polish and German immigrants. A neighboring town with a large population of Dutch immigrants, don't know why, had bigger kids and won all the basketball games.

thumpism 05-14-15 10:23 AM

This appeared on the local CL this morning. Seems to fit better in this thread than in the dedicated CL thread in C&V, more three-speed-specific interest here:

triumph classic bicycle

triumph classic bicycle - $120 (Richmond) < >
http://images.craigslist.org/00u0u_c...IC_600x450.jpg






http://images.craigslist.org/00u0u_c...hIC_50x50c.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/00y0y_g...tgN_50x50c.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/00d0d_b...Eff_50x50c.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/00I0I_8...7RK_50x50c.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/00H0H_x...vVw_50x50c.jpg


make / manufacturer: triumph
I have had this 3 speed triumph for about 5 years, it has brand-new tires and rides great. the fenders could use some adjusting for rattling but outgrew than that they are fine. It is a great shirt ride, around the neighborhood cruising bike.

I am moving and no longer have slave for allot of stuff. So, I have decided to sell it. Let me know what ya think!

thumpism 05-14-15 10:26 AM

I also know of a brand new Raleigh Space Rider (red with the curved top tube, 24x 1 3/8 wheel, CB) still at the dealer, if anyone is interested.

gster 05-15-15 11:43 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Toronto Vintage Bicycle Show 2015!
We have a date. The last Sunday in July.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451513

dweenk 05-17-15 01:11 PM

5 Attachment(s)
I don't need another Raleigh or another 3 speed, but they seem to follow me home. My wife and I were taking a drive past a couple of places where we used to live. As we were headed home, we passed a yard sale and my wife exclaimed "He's got two bikes for sale".

Well I went back and ended up with a ladies Raleigh Sports for $50. I started to negotiate, but he looked like he needed the $50. Anyway here it is. It has the 3 speed coaster brake hub that no one likes. Everything works, and it is in pretty decent shape. The only problem I notice is that the freewheel ticks while I am pedaling in 2nd and 3rd. After riding a bit more the freewheel ticks in 1st as well - maybe i didn't notice that earlier.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451987http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451988http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451989http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451990http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=451991

The hub is dated March 1976 - I haven't found the serial number yet.

arex 05-17-15 04:27 PM

Nice bike for $50.

michaelz28 05-17-15 04:59 PM

by the top of the seat tube on my 74 http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...psq11fi8wu.jpg

Narhay 05-18-15 01:54 AM

I may have asked before but my browser is going on the fritz. Has anyone used these as a direct replacement for the stock brakes with fenders...particularly on a 1972 Superbe?

Sunlite - Steel Bicycle Brakeset W/ Levers, Front & Rear

noglider 05-18-15 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by Narhay (Post 17814320)
I may have asked before but my browser is going on the fritz. Has anyone used these as a direct replacement for the stock brakes with fenders...particularly on a 1972 Superbe?

Sunlite - Steel Bicycle Brakeset W/ Levers, Front & Rear

I haven't, and the design is close to the original, but if I were replacing brakes on a Raleigh, I would use dual-pivots. Those brakes are super cheap and may work badly. And while you're at it, you might as well take advantage of modern advances.

Narhay 05-18-15 11:10 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17815280)
I haven't, and the design is close to the original, but if I were replacing brakes on a Raleigh, I would use dual-pivots. Those brakes are super cheap and may work badly. And while you're at it, you might as well take advantage of modern advances.

This would be for a low budget flip. I borrowed the brakes from the superbe to rebuild a sports with rusted out brake hardware.

noglider 05-18-15 11:19 AM

OK, that would justify the cost savings, but in my experience, cheap single pivots are some of the worst brakes I've ever used. Caliper arms need to be stiff to be effective.

Track10 05-19-15 10:24 AM

Hi Guys

I have a question and I am hoping you would like to play along ...

What would your 'perfect' Raleigh 3 Speed be like ?

Using only parts from the Raleigh Parts bin from say 1950 to 1975 how would you build your perfect 3 Speed ( or 4 speed for that matter )

Would you use an early frame or a late 60's 70's frame. Would you use Rod brakes or rim brakes - what hubs would you use, would you have a dymo - would you pop a 4 speed in ? What chainguard - what handlebars - I think there are only 3 choices ? North Road - the much flatter / lower type and the type that are used with the rod brakes ( is that curve only ever used on rod braked bikes ? - oh is there also the type like the one used on the 20's ? - What saddle would you fit, what pedals - and last of all - what colour would you paint it ?

I think I have an idea what my bike would look like ( I will tell you later ) but would love to know what yours would be like - oh and it would be great to know why you made those choices ?

Sixty Fiver 05-19-15 11:21 PM


Originally Posted by Track10 (Post 17818920)
Hi Guys

I have a question and I am hoping you would like to play along ...

What would your 'perfect' Raleigh 3 Speed be like ?

Using only parts from the Raleigh Parts bin from say 1950 to 1975 how would you build your perfect 3 Speed ( or 4 speed for that matter )

Would you use an early frame or a late 60's 70's frame. Would you use Rod brakes or rim brakes - what hubs would you use, would you have a dymo - would you pop a 4 speed in ? What chainguard - what handlebars - I think there are only 3 choices ? North Road - the much flatter / lower type and the type that are used with the rod brakes ( is that curve only ever used on rod braked bikes ? - oh is there also the type like the one used on the 20's ? - What saddle would you fit, what pedals - and last of all - what colour would you paint it ?

I think I have an idea what my bike would look like ( I will tell you later ) but would love to know what yours would be like - oh and it would be great to know why you made those choices ?

See the first three posts in this thread.

desconhecido 05-20-15 01:06 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17815280)
I haven't, and the design is close to the original, but if I were replacing brakes on a Raleigh, I would use dual-pivots. Those brakes are super cheap and may work badly. And while you're at it, you might as well take advantage of modern advances.

Dual pivots is probably the smart thing to do. Looks like the Tektro 800A are pretty inexpensive, nut mounted, and adaptable to the rear on step through models.

That said, the Weinmann sidepulls that they put on the 79 Sports are pretty decent for standard sidepull brakes. I like them much better than the steel Raleigh brakes used in 51, 56, 72, and 74. I'm not sure that the Weinmanns have the same reach as the Raleigh steel calipers and that may be a factor for the rear on older Sports bikes. They changed some stuff with the rear brake /rack bridge about the same time that they went to the Winmann brakes and I have not measured to be sure that they didn't move the rear brake mount a tad closer to the axle. What I think is that the Weinmann brakes may be slightly shorter reach than the steel Raleighs, but I haven't actually measured.

bwilli88 05-20-15 02:50 AM


What would your 'perfect' Raleigh 3 Speed be like ?
I would start with a rootbeer colored 74 Grand Prix and take off all of the derailleur bits, the crankarms, and the bottom bracket. I would replace the rear hub with a S-A 3 speed, ideally a S-A S3x with a 16t freewheel. I would find a nice Suguino crankarm set and put a 44t or a 46t chainring on it. For the gear lever I would choose one of two options, 1. Run the cable up the seatstay to a pulley and mount the gear changing lever on the top tube near the stem or 2. Purchase a single gear changer for the down tube and run the cable like the rear derailleur cable. I would also change the rims to 27 x 1 3/8 aluminum rims and run the fattest 27" tires I could find.

bertinjim 05-20-15 05:49 AM

bwilli88-

I did a similar conversion for my son. I took a black Sprite, removed the 5 speed derailleur bits, built alloy rims onto a 3 speed rear and QR front wheel with high pressure tires. It was one of the nicest handling and riding bikes I ever rode. The first time he rode it, it was stolen from a friend's house. Sigh.

BigChief 05-20-15 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by Track10 (Post 17818920)
Hi Guys

I have a question and I am hoping you would like to play along ...

What would your 'perfect' Raleigh 3 Speed be like ?

Using only parts from the Raleigh Parts bin from say 1950 to 1975 how would you build your perfect 3 Speed ( or 4 speed for that matter )

Would you use an early frame or a late 60's 70's frame. Would you use Rod brakes or rim brakes - what hubs would you use, would you have a dymo - would you pop a 4 speed in ? What chainguard - what handlebars - I think there are only 3 choices ? North Road - the much flatter / lower type and the type that are used with the rod brakes ( is that curve only ever used on rod braked bikes ? - oh is there also the type like the one used on the 20's ? - What saddle would you fit, what pedals - and last of all - what colour would you paint it ?

I think I have an idea what my bike would look like ( I will tell you later ) but would love to know what yours would be like - oh and it would be great to know why you made those choices ?

If you take into account rugged reliability, I think any of the Sports or DL-1 type Raleighs in stock trim are the perfect 3 speed
bikes. It's only if you want to sacrifice some strength for light weight do you move into the Clubman 531 framed style 3 speeds.
As cool as they are, they were eclipsed by 10 speed light weight touring bikes for good reason. To me, for getting around town or
light touring in flat country, a Raleigh Sports or any of the re-badged models from the 50s and 60s are just about perfect as is.
That's not stopping me from building my own 3 speed Clubman though. I even have some parts set aside for my project.


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