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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

dweenk 08-11-18 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20500938)
One torque does it all.

You may have a pop song title there:D.

BigChief 08-11-18 05:19 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20500902)
now THAT is something to think about!

It is. I recently got a great deal on a S5 hub. It has the same shell as an AW. I've heard that the S5 is a modified version of the FM and FW hub, but I can't say for certain because I've never owned either. The S5 has the longer 6 1/4" axle. I figure to leave room for the bell crank. So I know it will work in my DL-1. They have the longer axle because the wire fender stays are bolted on to it. But now I'm torn. I'd love to have those low ratios for the heavy DL-1 and still have an overdrive, but that medium ratio mode would be soooo nice on my Rudge scorcher. It's tough call, but it is all easily reversable. Me, I'd be very tempted to try that FW in that nice green Sports you have. That, a Brooks B66 and a nice Carradice saddlebag would round it out nicely :beer:

gster 08-12-18 06:33 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20500938)
That's kinda what I mean't. One torque does it all.

Peter Torque

clubman 08-12-18 06:40 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20501797)
Peter Twerque

fify He's made a big comeback these past few years.

gster 08-12-18 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20501804)
fify He's made a big comeback these past few years.

Got it. Had to figure out fify.

markk900 08-12-18 04:57 PM

Couple of thoughts in the 110/130 question: First I have stretched my Peugeot out to take a wider cluster and back in again to use an AW hub several times as the mood hits and not suffered what I would consider serious issues.... however if you are really worried 10mm of spacers on either side (provided the axle is long enough) and there’s no issue at all. If the axle is too short for that find a happy medium ( some spacers, some squeezing, no need for cold setting).

Buellster 08-12-18 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 20502629)
Couple of thoughts in the 110/130 question: First I have stretched my Peugeot out to take a wider cluster and back in again to use an AW hub several times as the mood hits and not suffered what I would consider serious issues.... however if you are really worried 10mm of spacers on either side (provided the axle is long enough) and there’s no issue at all. If the axle is too short for that find a happy medium ( some spacers, some squeezing, no need for cold setting).

Thanks! That's good to know.
Its hi-ten steel far as I can tell so it's not like I'm trying to bend one of the more fragile materials. Most people I've asked my local LBS have said its likley fine. I do think that's the route I'll go since it was my original intention with the bike.
Now I just need I single gear crankset for the front and I'll be ready to go!

thorstein 08-12-18 07:02 PM

Here's my '75 DL1 Tourist:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...881a95541d.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...254f3cbe9d.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c51d5ae72b.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c1b23aafc6.jpg

AW 74 2
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d3c350ae8d.jpg

What's the best way to get rid of the rust & then keep the patina, as everyone likes to say?

BigChief 08-12-18 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20502764)
Thanks! That's good to know.
Its hi-ten steel far as I can tell so it's not like I'm trying to bend one of the more fragile materials. Most people I've asked my local LBS have said its likley fine. I do think that's the route I'll go since it was my original intention with the bike.
Now I just need I single gear crankset for the front and I'll be ready to go!

Are you talking about the Harding? I see a Reynolds 531 sticker on the fork. Still no reason not to cold set it. Never saw this brand before. Is it English? Certainly is a beautiful frameset and will make a classy roadster. Looking forward to seeing the project come along.

BigChief 08-12-18 07:43 PM


Originally Posted by thorstein (Post 20502899)
Here's my '75 DL1 Tourist:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...881a95541d.jpg
What's the best way to get rid of the rust & then keep the patina, as everyone likes to say?

I love these bikes! I see you have it geared down a bit and steel pedals. I have mine set up that way too. As far as the rust, you have a choice. I just repaired a fender in a similar condition. If you want it looking very clean, and since there's no pinstriping to preserve, you could refinish the entire mudguard and not polish the paint to a high gloss. Stop at a more coarse rubbing compound so the gloss matches the rest of the bike. You can sand off the rust and use a few coats of paint and wet sanding to fill and smooth out the pitted areas before the final coat. Or, you could do what I chose to do on my latest project. I knocked off the loose rust. I didn't try to get to bare steel. I used sandpaper for the broad area and a small improvised scraping too for small spots.. Then I cleaned off the area with solvent. I then used an artist brush to lay on some new Rustoleum gloss black. What happens now is the repaired areas stand out because the gloss doesn't match. So what you do is, after the repair dries thoroughly, go over the whole mudguard with a fine polishing compound. This will blend in the gloss levels of the original paint and the repair. Since I didn't fill the pitted steel, the rough areas show, but are black instead of rust red. I felt that this was the most sensitive repair considering the condition of the steel. While you're painting it's a good idea to give the underside a good thick layer of fresh paint.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d1f0ad2685.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d6b032a7bd.jpg

Buellster 08-12-18 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20502910)
Are you talking about the Harding? I see a Reynolds 531 sticker on the fork. Still no reason not to cold set it. Never saw this brand before. Is it English? Certainly is a beautiful frameset and will make a classy roadster. Looking forward to seeing the project come along.

Funny thing:
It is a 531 sticker on the fork, but only on the fork.
The fork blades are 531 steel while the rest is just hi-ten. Aparently the idea was that the fork is where a lot of the "ride feel" truly comes from. This strikes me as the complete opposite to what I had heard many manufacturers were doing which is making the frames from 531 and the forks from hi-ten (that super course I picked up being a prime example).
As for the model, it is a slight variation on a holdsworth Mystuiqe. There was a bike shop in LA run by a gentleman named Charlie Harding. He and his brother(who ran a shop in Cork Ireland) sold Harding branded cycles. (Another forum member filled me in). Aparently the bikes were built by the Holdsworth factory, but the Hardings would order subtle variations, such as the location of Brazed on parts, from the production models. It's not "worth" a whole lot money wise, but I love the story behind it. I like when you can trace a bike to the place it was sold.

thorstein 08-12-18 07:58 PM

Thanks for the tips! It's pretty much the way I got it. I added the pump & saddle bag. I need to look into what brake pads are best to replace the old ones. I'd also like to find a rear rack, but they are hard to come by around here. I've been keeping an eye out at a few bike shops, but no luck so far since I want to keep it looking period correct. I've been thinking of getting MKS rubber pedals, but these work pretty well if not of the right era.

It came with the 22t rear cog which works great for the riding I do in St. Paul. I've been impressed many times with how well it rides & how it can eat up miles. I think I need to just keep pushing to see how well it/I can handle longer rides.

BigChief 08-12-18 08:02 PM

My DL-1 has entirely new paint on the front mudguard, but it was in far worse shape than yours. But since the gloss matches, it doesn't stand out much. I recommend the KoolStop salmon inserts. You have to drive out the old pads and press the KoolStops in, but they have a curved top that matches the rim where some of the other pads are straight and have to be shaped or wear into the curve.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f5c04f219c.jpg

thorstein 08-12-18 08:07 PM

That does look really nice. I'm not sure if I want to repaint. I might be ok just getting the surface rust off, but I'm not sure how to treat it so it doesn't keep rusting too fast.

BigChief 08-12-18 08:42 PM


Originally Posted by thorstein (Post 20503035)
That does look really nice. I'm not sure if I want to repaint. I might be ok just getting the surface rust off, but I'm not sure how to treat it so it doesn't keep rusting too fast.

Some new paint over the bare rust will do the job. Especially if you wax every once in a while. Wax protects the chrome well too. I think you might be best served if you just scrape off any loose rust, apply some black gloss Rustoleum with an artists brush and give the mudguard a going over with polishing compound. The repair will still be noticeable because of the uneven pitted surface, but it won't stand out.

BigChief 08-12-18 09:31 PM

Here's an interesting 23" Rudge asking $85. Looks like by this time, 70s? Raleigh didn't bother with special Rudge fork anymore. It has the standard Raleigh short cap. Still, it has a healthy looking Brooks saddle and nice paint. I wonder about that chainring. Never seen anything like that on a Raleigh. Maybe somebody replaced the whole crank when the arm got bent.
70s Rudge

BigChief 08-13-18 07:53 AM

@thorstein I should elaborate a bit more about the brake pads. This was my first experience with rod brakes. The originals were hard and dried out, so I sent off for 2 pairs of new Fibrax pads. These come with the chrome holders attached and are closed at both ends. When they came I was surprised to find that the pads were straight and didn't conform to the radius of the rim. When mounted, only the leading and trailing edges of the pad would contact the rim. I suppose you're expected to put up with worse performance than the old pads you're replacing until the new pads, eventually conform to the rim radius. The KoolStop inserts match the radius perfectly and work great right away. To this day, the Fibrax pads are sitting in a jar on my workbence. A waste of money IMO. You do need to drive the old pads out with a punch and press the KoolStops in to the original holders, but it is worth it.

clubman 08-13-18 03:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)
There's many 70's 3 speeds in my region/market so I wouldn't take anything other than near pristine but the older a bike is the more tempting it is. When offered a rust bucket '52 Humber for chump change I cave in immediately.

BigChief 08-13-18 04:55 PM

Ohhh, does it have that wonderful running men chainring? That would have done it for me right there.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...85c084f739.jpg

clubman 08-14-18 06:21 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Yup. Too bad the chrome is rough and even after an OA bath it's still cosmetically challenged to be polite. The bike was pretty corroded but it all came apart just fine. The small chrome bits like brakes and levers are fine, the stem and bars, no. Rubber Humber pedals intact.

Buellster 08-14-18 08:46 AM

So I was riding my sports last night and the third gear started slipping out completely. I stood up to pedal while picking up speed and suddenly it just dropped out like the chain had fallen off. I changed down to second and it caught fine. Going back up to third worked but the gear was still slipping out to nothing fairly consistantly for the rest of the ride home. I didnt stand up again for the ride. So the problem was happening while I sat and rode as well.
Should I adjust the tensioning cable and if not what else could I try?

JaccoW 08-14-18 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20505687)
So I was riding my sports last night and the third gear started slipping out completely. I stood up to pedal while picking up speed and suddenly it just dropped out like the chain had fallen off. I changed down to second and it caught fine. Going back up to third worked but the gear was still slipping out to nothing fairly consistantly for the rest of the ride home. I didnt stand up again for the ride. So the problem was happening while I sat and rode as well.
Should I adjust the tensioning cable and if not what else could I try?

yeah really sounds like the cable tension (or lack thereof) caused it to slip into neutral. Try that first and otherwise you might have to take the job apart to check for broken bits.

BigChief 08-14-18 09:44 AM

The cable should be slack in third, so check that first. I suspect that the cable is a bit too tight. After that, it's checking the pawls, they need to spring forward smoothly. They can sometimes be sticky or have weak springs. The next thing would be to either replace the clutch spring or just stretch it out a bit. The pins that hold the planet gears serve a dual purpose. They're an axle for the gears to spin on and they also poke up past the top of the gear cage for the clutch plate to engage and drive 3rd gear. The clutch spring needs to push the clutch plate down on the cage so the pins engage. If the spring is too weak or if the clutch plate is sticky, or the key isn't moving freely in it's slot, the clutch plate won't sit down flat against the cage and let the pins engage the clutch arms securely.
edit...also check the condition of the indicator chain. If it's bent or even rusty, replace it.

Buellster 08-14-18 10:42 AM

Looking at the bike in the light of day the problem was very easy to solve.
my cable which runs along the tob tube and then down the rear triangle got caught in the clamp that holds the rear rack to the frame. It must have still been moving some but not enough to fully engage in third gear.
Cable has some wear on it but seems okay and its shifting every which way smooth as silk again. Luckily I was only a fee blocks from home when it happened, I think if I'd ridden like this for any length of time I'd have caused some real problems.
phew!
I know I will need to take apart and service this hub eventually but I never have before and I was hoping to get that hang of it on one that isn't in the bike I ride a lot haha

StefanieB 08-14-18 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20497799)
Wow, this one is outstanding. What a great find. You even got the grips!!! Doesn't look like she needs much. What a beautiful, classic roadster. I'm seeing fewer and fewer bikes like this as time goes by.
edit: From the catalog the Superbe Sports Tourist didn't get the Raleigh Sports transfer on the downtube. I thought it might be worn off, but no. Never had one.

Just amazing. What a find.


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