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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

arex 07-09-19 10:17 PM

https://westslope.craigslist.org/bik...930298306.html

3speedslow 07-10-19 09:56 AM

My 67 Phillips has the nuts on the end and also the rotating blocks. If I snug the nut down it does a better job of holding the blocks in one orientation. All 4 sides look the same. I thought they would be rebuildable but apparently Raleigh cheapened them so they would not be. Still, with a healthy dose of oil, they spin fine.

3speedslow 07-10-19 10:36 AM

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a5e005edc.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5e356b3fd.jpeg
I might not be too clear so I put some pics up, we all like pics , right?

Dang cold and all the meds my dr has me on I be loopy.

Ged117 07-10-19 11:32 AM

The Superbe's pedals cleaned up nicely. The bearing races were all in good shape. The blocks are a little worn, but not too bad. I like the little flourishes that the earlier models have. I've finished setting up the brakes on the Superbe with a mix of 1950 and 1979 components and I used KoolStop salmon pads. Tonight I'll throw on the chain and chain guard, set up the shifter cable (I hope I can use the original ferrule with the new cable since the 1950 shifter has the screw type), adjust, and go for a ride. The weather looks good so I'll try to take some nice photos for posting here. Very excited! The below photo is a month or so old.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af4f9be99c.jpg

A few weeks ago

BigChief 07-10-19 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21020443)
The Superbe's pedals cleaned up nicely. The bearing races were all in good shape. The blocks are a little worn, but not too bad. I like the little flourishes that the earlier models have. I've finished setting up the brakes on the Superbe with a mix of 1950 and 1979 components and I used KoolStop salmon pads. Tonight I'll throw on the chain and chain guard, set up the shifter cable (I hope I can use the original ferrule with the new cable since the 1950 shifter has the screw type), adjust, and go for a ride. The weather looks good so I'll try to take some nice photos for posting here. Very excited! The below photo is a month or so old.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af4f9be99c.jpg

A few weeks ago

Ahh, good. You still have the original double quill pedals. Those are rare these days. Wonder why since they're rebuildable. For some reason people just replaced them. Most of the older Raleighs I've seen have replaced pedals. If you're going to use a modern shift cable with a pinch bolt adapter, it won't be a problem to reuse the original threaded ferrule. If you don't like pinch bolt adapters, there's an easy way around that.

PeterLYoung 07-10-19 04:28 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 21017574)
I have several SW hubs here. The nice thing about them is they have fewer internal parts than the AW (and no fiddly pawl springs to go missing), so they're dead-easy to overhaul. The springless pawls do take some getting used to; the hub is eerie quiet when coasting (which I like), but it often takes longer than you expect for the pawls to engage. This effect is exacerbated by cold temperatures. When it gets below freezing it can take a couple complete crank revolutions for the pawls to engage. I've relegated my SWs to summer duty only. The gear range is somewhat wider than the AW, which you may or may not like.

N.B. I do have some extra SW parts here as well (planet gears, clutch, driver, etc.) and some two piece indicator rods. A couple of my SWs use the typical one piece indicator rod, but a couple others use the two-piece rod. Go figure.

I think I have plenty spares at present, the hubs I have use the split indicate which if my memory is correct screw into the gear change toggle. The thing with the SW is not losing the location for each pawl when dismantling as they individually wear into their locating cup and performance can be affected if they are not returned to the correct cup. New ones are seemingly and not surprisingly unavailable!! I think the quality and viscosity of the oil used is critical. I won't know how good my SW hub is until I get the wheels back at the end of this week.

gster 07-10-19 07:03 PM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 21015446)
I have been restoring in the USA a 1957 Phillips Model P2 Sports step through on and off this last 9 months or so. It was in apparent good condition when I obtained it but when I stripped it I found the toggle in the 3 Speed was missing or broken inside the hub. It has the notorious Sturmey Archer SW in which the pawls act by cam action with no springs to return them. When I went back to UK in February I managed to obtain two of these hubs which seem to appear rarely on eBay (from my experience). One was in apparent excellent condition and the other poor but useful to raid for parts. So I brought these back to USA a couple of weeks back and since have dismantled the wheels to have them rebuilt with the original cleaned up front hub and the better of the two SW hubs. The rims buffed up really nice and so I expect to receive a nice pair of wheels later this week to build back into the bike.

The rest of the bike has been treated as follows:-

Frame; The paintwork was pretty good but dulled with age so I compounded much of it taking care around transfers/decals (which were very fragile) and then once cleaned up I have clear lacquered it. Same for Fenders and Chain Guard.

Components; I soaked all chromed items in White Vinegar for around 48 hours to de rust and then cleaned them up and all the parts came up very good, the chrome overall was in very good shape considering the bikes age.

Bottom Bracket, Headset, Pedals and Front Hub; Stripped, cleaned and rebuilt these replacing all the ball bearings. The bearing surfaces on these old bikes survive amazingly well.

Brake Cables; The brake cables on this bike were stuck in the outers which needed replacing. The cables are thicker than modern and the nipples are larger than modern. The brake levers do not take the modern size but I wanted to keep the levers as they are very nice. I took the cables back to the UK in the hope I might find some correct ones there but no success with this approach. I decided to have a more determined attempt at removing the old cables from the outers so I kept soaking them with WD 40 and Gasoline and eventually I managed to pull them out. I then found the old outers were the same size as modern outers though the thicker cables are a very close fit inside so I rebuilt the cables with modern outers. The amazing thing was that the cables never frayed at the ends so no problem re feeding them into the outers as they are in such good condition once cleaned up.

Will post more pics when re-assembled with rebuilt wheels and Fenders etc refitted.

Some photos below:-

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bf483fc162.png
Sellers original Photo.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1a86296fc7.jpg
Stripped Frame ready for Lacquer.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4bb48e37ad.jpg
Parts soaking in White Vinegar to de rust.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5d64384954.jpg
Chain-guard & Fenders ready for Lacquer.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7aafe2177d.jpg
Bottom Bracket minimal wear just a little tracking on spindle, new balls and it will be fine.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4dad3b7c7a.jpg
Fragile peeling transfers, reason for Lacquer to frame.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2bcd8e068f.jpg
Assembly started.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f3b697cae0.jpg
Had to replace SA Trigger due to old one badly distorted. replacement is identical to original.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...30a988bef0.jpg
Brake parts came up almost like new.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af65683f98.jpg
Crank set & Pedals also came up amazingly well.

Nice work!
I thought those double bolted brake levers were mostly Canadian.
I find they interfere with the trigger placement.

gster 07-10-19 07:07 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21020443)
The Superbe's pedals cleaned up nicely. The bearing races were all in good shape. The blocks are a little worn, but not too bad. I like the little flourishes that the earlier models have. I've finished setting up the brakes on the Superbe with a mix of 1950 and 1979 components and I used KoolStop salmon pads. Tonight I'll throw on the chain and chain guard, set up the shifter cable (I hope I can use the original ferrule with the new cable since the 1950 shifter has the screw type), adjust, and go for a ride. The weather looks good so I'll try to take some nice photos for posting here. Very excited! The below photo is a month or so old.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af4f9be99c.jpg

A few weeks ago

Looks like a nice tall Scorcher.

BigChief 07-11-19 04:49 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21021087)
Nice work!
I thought those double bolted brake levers were mostly Canadian.
I find they interfere with the trigger placement.

The 60s captive brands had those here in the US too. I also prefer the traditional single bolt type that Raleigh had been using since the 1930s and diddn't get around to ruining until the auto adjust type in the mid 70s. The good part is the calipers that came with the cheaper 2 bolt levers used regular pinch bolts instead of the ball end holders that came on official Raleighs. I should compare the two different calipers side by side sometime, but I don't think there's any real difference between them besides the pinch bolt.

3speedslow 07-11-19 08:21 AM

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3846f3379.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...195d681da.jpeg
I am taking the Phillips down and storing the parts for another Sport. I used my friends old Park tool again for the cotters with much success. I was puzzled by the difference between these last two uses. My R20 was hardly used while the Phillips was ridden much. Why did the cotters in the Raleigh fight and the Phillips slide out with hard pressure?

I forgot the old trick!

before installing the press, I lightly sanded the top of the pins and notice if any burs on top. If any I was ready to file them down and hit it with 800 sandpaper again. Then, when the press went on i dabs a little grease in the depressed top end which contacts the threaded side. Worked like a charm!

i think that my pin which twisted out must have had a burr catch on top which provided the grip needed to start the twist...disaster!

anyway, now I have two very good 1967 pins to use on the R20. That and a whole bike of parts for all of $20.

BigChief 07-11-19 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 21021767)
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3846f3379.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...195d681da.jpeg
I am taking the Phillips down and storing the parts for another Sport. I used my friends old Park tool again for the cotters with much success. I was puzzled by the difference between these last two uses. My R20 was hardly used while the Phillips was ridden much. Why did the cotters in the Raleigh fight and the Phillips slide out with hard pressure?

I forgot the old trick!

before installing the press, I lightly sanded the top of the pins and notice if any burs on top. If any I was ready to file them down and hit it with 800 sandpaper again. Then, when the press went on i dabs a little grease in the depressed top end which contacts the threaded side. Worked like a charm!

i think that my pin which twisted out must have had a burr catch on top which provided the grip needed to start the twist...disaster!

anyway, now I have two very good 1967 pins to use on the R20. That and a whole bike of parts for all of $20.

Interesting! Makes sense too. There's a lot of pressure on that cotter. I suppose it is possible that the rotating motion of the press punch could start a bend of the threaded portion of the cotter. Then, when combined with the downward pressure... disaster as you say. It is certainly worth polishing the cotter end and adding a bit of grease just in case. Thanks for the tip.

jungwiar 07-11-19 05:56 PM

Mine look the same only with reflectors. FWIW - a picture.https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f1eb5e427.jpeg

jungwiar 07-11-19 06:11 PM

While I am at it - 1/2 of the fleet (ok - almost 1/2, but if I don’t include the freebie ‘79 Sports and the former Nishiki MTB conversion, 1/2). Guess I am partial to the bronze green...


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...06ab10b97.jpeg

BigChief 07-11-19 07:15 PM


Originally Posted by jungwiar (Post 21022649)
Mine look the same only with reflectors. FWIW - a picture.https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f1eb5e427.jpeg

Thanks for the picture. In the collection it goes. I'm going to guess that the reflectors were a mandate from busy body bureaucrats and adding a single reflector to the blocks of the existing design satisfied the demand even if the reflectors only had a 1 in 4 chance of facing the right direction. Another tid bit of 3 speed history documented.

nlerner 07-11-19 08:36 PM

Looks to be a 1940s (based on the trigger) Raleigh DL-1 for sale for a C-note north of Boston:

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bi...931966649.html

JaccoW 07-12-19 06:17 AM

Found an interesting (Dutch) review of 3-speed bikes from 1985. De Kampioen - June 1985, page 21
Unfortunately there is no easy way to translate this, Google books doesn't allow text to be copied and put through their translator in this case.

Some findings:
  • Virtually all bikes used aluminum Sturmey Archer 3-speed drum brakes. Some used Fichtel-Sachs.
  • Tested sizes were 57 to 60cm frames (22" to 23.5")
  • Bikes were driven over a 600km (372 miles) trip over bumpy terrain with extra weigt added over the course of this trip.
  • A bike weighing 100 kg (220 lbs), including cyclist, stops from 25 kph (15.5 mph) to 0 kph in 5 meters (16.4 ft). Both in dry and wet conditions.
  • In 1985 only 1 in 20 Dutch weighed 100 kg.
  • A bike carrying an extra 100 kg (220 lbs) spread over 3 bags on bumpy roads tends to break handlebars, rear racks, crank spindles and chain rings. But mostly handlebars. :lol:
  • None of the Sturmey Archer or Fichtel-Sachs drum brakes failed.
  • Cheapest bike in the test was fl. 360,- (Rijnland, a department store bike) - ($347 in 2019)
  • Median price was around fl. 650,- (Altra, Batavus, Bianchi, Cové, Gazelle, Peugeot, Puch, RIH, Sparta, Tomos, Union) - ($628 in 2019)
  • Most expensive bike in the test was fl. 1295,- (Koga-Miyata) - ($1253 in 2019)
https://i.imgur.com/NFlcm8y.png

browngw 07-12-19 02:07 PM

The 1972 Raleigh Sports in "root beer" is getting lots of use lately. It has surprised me with its willingness to ride longer distances. The 20 tooth cog seems to be doing the job and I have ridden the bike a lot. I had intended selling it at the CVBS but could not imagine letting it go. Instead in a separate transaction, I sold the beautiful old 1958 Sun Cresta! Its limited gear range meant I was not riding it and a good friend had been admiring it for years. So "One Brown's Lane" still has about ten bikes but some of the faces have changed.

A couple of shots of the "Root Beer Express" in the town of Simcoe on a sunny Sunday with Mrs. browngw. Although I have tried many times, she doesn't want to ride a vintage Raleigh.https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ecea910f27.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c9e9436880.jpg

DQRider 07-12-19 07:32 PM

For The Love of One Particular English 3-Speed
 
For those of you looking for technical content, please, just skip this post.

Staying true to the theme of this thread, I am declaring my love for one particular English 3-Speed: This incredible 70 year-old Raleigh Clubman.

I've been commuting all week on this bike, and tonight after work, I took her out for a photo shoot during what is commonly called "The Golden Hour". Stopping short of poetry, I'll let these images express how I feel about this bicycle:

https://i.imgur.com/ikTxRS2.png

https://i.imgur.com/LrCYVjE.png

https://i.imgur.com/aJAMB0h.png

https://i.imgur.com/L63Yop4.png

Have a great weekend, everyone. I know I will...


gster 07-13-19 11:19 AM

I picked up a 3 speed Pashley Classic Roadster today for a very good price ($200.00 CDN)
Brooks saddle and Bags., drum brakes.
Photos will follow.

dimini 07-14-19 06:18 AM

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd95b0e2f.jpeg

My 1974 Superbe needs just a couple more goodies for it to be complete. 1) I have no key for the locking fork. 2) Need a new cotter pin for the crank—hopefully one that has the acorn nut w/ initial R on it. Anyone here know the trick to getting a key for the fork, or a new cylinder and new key? Cotter pins are likely EBay find but I think the missing key is a bit hopeful.

dweenk 07-14-19 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by dimini (Post 21025907)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd95b0e2f.jpeg

My 1974 Superbe needs just a couple more goodies for it to be complete. 1) I have no key for the locking fork. 2) Need a new cotter pin for the crank—hopefully one that has the acorn nut w/ initial R on it. Anyone here know the trick to getting a key for the fork, or a new cylinder and new key? Cotter pins are likely EBay find but I think the missing key is a bit hopeful.

Try looking for someone who makes keys for old British sports cars. I had one made by a guy in Frederick, MD several months ago - his name escapes me at the moment. Edit: You should be able to read the key # on the face of the lock.

BigChief 07-14-19 10:04 AM


Originally Posted by dimini (Post 21025907)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd95b0e2f.jpeg

My 1974 Superbe needs just a couple more goodies for it to be complete. 1) I have no key for the locking fork. 2) Need a new cotter pin for the crank—hopefully one that has the acorn nut w/ initial R on it. Anyone here know the trick to getting a key for the fork, or a new cylinder and new key? Cotter pins are likely EBay find but I think the missing key is a bit hopeful.

Unfortunately, the original Raleigh cotters use a British thread and any modern cotters you'll find won't work with the "R" nuts. In fact, just about any new cotters you find on eBay won't fit the Raleigh spindle either. Your best bet is to try to reuse the original cotter or replace the pair with quality cotters with the correct taper for vintage Raleighs from Mark at BikeSmith Design and Fabrication

Salubrious 07-15-19 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by dimini (Post 21025907)
My 1974 Superbe needs just a couple more goodies for it to be complete. 1) I have no key for the locking fork. 2) Need a new cotter pin for the crank—hopefully one that has the acorn nut w/ initial R on it. Anyone here know the trick to getting a key for the fork, or a new cylinder and new key? Cotter pins are likely EBay find but I think the missing key is a bit hopeful.

Get the number off of the fork lock. Look on ebay, search for 'Raleigh fork lock key' and see if one matches your lock number. Just that easy :)

dimini 07-15-19 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21027767)
Get the number off of the fork lock. Look on ebay, search for 'Raleigh fork lock key' and see if one matches your lock number. Just that easy :)

That sounds pretty simple. Yes, it seems as though there's a 3-4 character number stamped on the face of the cylinder. I'm guessing that would match up with the style of blank key, but not literally the specific key. I'm no locksmith so all this is "magic" to me. Thanks for the suggestion!

dweenk 07-15-19 10:30 AM

@dimini

Can you fit 2 bikes inside your Mini?

Salubrious 07-15-19 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by dimini (Post 21027799)
That sounds pretty simple. Yes, it seems as though there's a 3-4 character number stamped on the face of the cylinder. I'm guessing that would match up with the style of blank key, but not literally the specific key. I'm no locksmith so all this is "magic" to me. Thanks for the suggestion!

Actually that will be the key itself, all set to go. There weren't that many different locks, but don't worry- its unlikely anyone in your town will have the same key :)

dimini 07-15-19 10:40 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 21027832)
@dimini

Can you fit 2 bikes inside your Mini?

One road bike fits inside w/back seat folded down w/wheels removed. Myhttps://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c224c6dd26.jpg
folding MINI bike fits beautifully in the storage behind the rear seat. However, I have a 2-bike roof rack that only takes one person 3 minutes to attach. I've used the roof rack once with the Raleigh Superbe and it made me really, really nervous as I think the Raleigh exceeds the maximum weight for the bike attachment. It's also a PITA as the front fender needs to come off before it can be attached into the fork mount.

dweenk 07-15-19 11:10 AM

Do see a Nikon F-1 in the photo?

gster 07-15-19 07:19 PM

The New Pashley Roadster

A friend of mine bought this bike a few years ago and fixed

a problem with the hub.

He has a few bikes and thought it best to let this one go.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c37c0d844c.jpg
I've made some changes to suit me.
The bars/stem and grips have been replaced w/ period appropriate pieces.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9f738bc4be.jpg
I dyed the saddle black, added a pump and swapped out some proper rubber block pedals...https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b08866eae.jpg
All in all a very nice but heavy roadster.
Updates to follow.

AD-SLE 07-15-19 08:44 PM

Oh my. I used to love my 3 Speeds. So darn practical. I rode one 5 miles each day to the train station and back. You don't break any land speed records but it sure beats walking! I have this 1970 which is a great size, wheels good. But, a snow plow found her and bent stem and fork. Sadly, my inventory and source of old Raleighs was moved on by she who must be obeyed. I don't see messing with FleaBay. I need the tyres for my Dad's pre war Sports which is where I should put my focus. Thoughts? Bike is in the Concord NH area.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c59184c30.jpg


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