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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

spclark 07-23-23 11:35 AM

When You Discover...
 
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...74b5d54280.jpg
Reborn - again - after 51 years!

Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22940187)
Dumb question time: at what point do you strip the old glue from your rims?

... that the old glue's turned to dust and the tire's slipping enough to start a bulge just ahead of the valve stem!

Seriously though, I just got back from a three-mile "test ride" after renovating my half-century Motobecane Grand Record. Spent its last ten years in the basement, upon a work stand, out of the way since we moved here a decade ago.

I hadn't ridden anything since that move then this year figured 'why not' try something more modern for commuting to my part-time job six blocks away rather than driving. So I bought a 2022 model Kona Dew+, been riding that for several weeks, getting myself back into decent shape.

In that I'm 74 now, the Moto was purchased on Easter Sunday in 1972. Rode it a LOT until work intervened the it didn't see much use.

Riding the Kona inspired me to get the Moto back under me. Spent three weeks taking it apart, cleaning everything, new ball bearings everywhere & new cables, sheathes, brake pads... but I didn't check the tire cement.

So that morning ride was to see if everything was back together right. After a couple miles & a few hills I was standing up to climb I felt a thumpthumpthump on straight smooth pavement. Careful exam showed that slight bulge at the valve stem but no leakage. So I got home, pulled the wheel, pulled the tire, found the cement had become dust.

Lacquer thinner cleaned rim off nicely. First coat of Continental's drying on the tire's tape. (Instructions indicate THREE DAYS dry time between the THREE COATS? Are they serious??) I'll be putting a coat on the clean rim too, then waiting a day for second coating tire's tape then I'll mount that tire once more maybe Thursday this week, see how it goes.

Wonderful forum here. I just discovered it last week, had some log-in issues I got straightened out earlier today so I'm rapidly getting my ten post count done so I can post pics....

pastorbobnlnh 07-23-23 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by spclark (Post 22961657)
...Wonderful forum here. I just discovered it last week, had some log-in issues I got straightened out earlier today so I'm rapidly getting my ten post count done so I can post pics....

Welcome aboard C&V! This is a great resource for all your vintage bike questions and needs.

It's a moot point now that you've begun to reglue your tires, but if the vintage bug bites and you find yourself with another tubular wheelset, consider using gluing tape. Its an amazing product which simplfies and neatens the tubular experience. My favorite is the tape made by Mariposa.

spclark 07-23-23 01:15 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 22961730)
... consider using gluing tape. Its an amazing product which simplfies and neatens the tubular experience. My favorite is the tape made by Mariposa.

Thanks for that! Never heard of such stuff, why I bought a tube of Continental's splooge when I bought new shrouds & cables early last week.

Even without new rims there's opportunities to experiment with the front that was last glued up about the same time as the back. And I have two brand-spanking-new(OS) Vittoria's standing by, just in case, with no glue ever having been carefully spread onto their inner tire tapes.

Continental's glue-application instructions have to have been written by lawyers!! THREE coats? With 72 HOURS between EACH coat?

No surprise tape's The Better Choice!

DiabloScott 07-23-23 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by spclark (Post 22961751)
Thanks for that! Never heard of such stuff, why I bought a tube of Continental's splooge when I bought new shrouds & cables early last week.
No surprise tape's The Better Choice!

This is a matter of some disagreement in here. Both techniques have their adherents.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1a961b0259.jpg

Classtime 07-23-23 06:34 PM

Tape and Di2 go together well.

Continental’s glueing instructions are effective. After a brutal roadside tire change at mile 100 of a 130 mile event, I use less and less and continue to struggle with tire changes.

pastorbobnlnh 07-24-23 03:46 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22961768)
This is a matter of some disagreement in here. Both techniques have their adherents.

:thumb: Very well played!

spclark back to tape: Aggressive riders tend to avoid tape or they both tape and glue, which is fine and their preference. However, if you are more of a casual tubular rider, I find tape is the way to roll (:p take that DiabloScott!).

You have almost a decade on me, but probably like me you are not racing in criteriums, descending famous California mountain passes, or ever finding yourself in a bunch sprint contending for the Green Jersey at the end of a Tour de France stage. We ride tubulars because we can and enjoy their plush, smooth, and lightweight ride--- and not because they provide a performance edge. Tape makes mounting 10 times easier, faster and is 10 times cleaner in the process.

Tape is a win-win for us :50:!

spclark 07-24-23 05:36 AM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 22962289)
...but probably like me you are not racing in criteriums, descending famous California mountain passes, or ever finding yourself in a bunch sprint contending for the Green Jersey at the end of a Tour de France stage.!

Yep, that's me. Casual rider, compete only with myself. Immediate and long term goals are to keep my Personal Running Gear in proper shape so as to be able to do the things I enjoy with it for as long as I possibly can.

By all means KEEP MOVING has been my mantra for decades after seeing what happens to folks I've known and loved decline after losing mobility either from habit (most often) or choice (less common).

In the weeks since I bought then began riding my Kona I've become more flexible and seen my heart rate show evidence of endurance. Prior to that my exclusive exercise had been walking an average of six or seven miles during shifts three times a week in a hardware store doing customer service. That alone has kept me in decent shape but, being mindful of that mantra, I want more out of life than bad feet from just walking around on a concrete floor.

I'm dancing about whether to switch to clinchers on the MB, whether it'd have any meaningful benefit long term for me. Right now the MB seems to be in Fine Shape, I simply need to do a better job of gluing its tires to those old Mavic rims going forward. I have two new Viterra tires standing by as spares as well as some limited experience from a decade or more ago taking sew-ups apart to patch leaks. These days it may be easier just installing new tubes or maybe the foam inserts I've seen advertised for some 'run-flat' security when I'm miles from home some afternoon. Switching to clinchers appears to be somewhat complicated given the bits I'm dealing with that all have to play well together.

Thanks for your input. I'm forever grateful for the advice and comments I get from folks more experienced than I can claim on the forums I'm inclined to bother with.

Aardwolf 07-24-23 06:42 AM

One thing I'd suggest is getting some tire sealant.

I discovered tubulars 2 years back when I bought a bike with some on, now I only ride tubulars (Vittoria Rubino G+ 28mm on Mavic Monthlery Route).
But I built a set of clinchers when I though they were easier to fix, they sit in the corner as the strategic reserve.

I had a flat after 3 weeks and discovered Orange Seal which fixed it, then no flats for 1500 miles on 1.5oz per tire.
And I now use Jantex tape and think it's much better than Tufo tape.

spclark 07-25-23 09:18 AM

Thanks for that suggestion, I'll see if my LBS carries that Orange Seal stuff.

I bought two canisters of a Vittoria sealant, dispensed one into the two tubulars currently mounted on my MB. Unsettling experience in the doing was having the plastic end cap/valve adapter thingy on the top pop out of the canister's crimped ring, causing a mess when the foam inside kinda exploded out onto my hand, the floor, the wheel I was putting it into at the time.

I'll look for the OS stuff as a safer alternative, leave the second Vittoria for an 'emergency' hopefully never to happen.

And I think that I'll look about for components to build a pair of clincher wheels, maybe using my pair of Record hubs, keep the cost down. I have three Vittoria 'spare' new tires; at the rate I ride they ought to last me the rest of my biking life....

HM70 07-26-23 10:51 AM

Repairig a minimal sidewall cut
 
This is my first attempt at patching a tubular in probably 40 years. Used to be able to do it in an hour at the nearest coffee shop. Now I'm all thumbs and can't hardly see anymore! Good news is I still have my velox tin can kit and some fresh glue. It's a sidewall cut in an almost new generic "Kenda SC" tire. Seems to be quite well made. As you can see the cut occured in 2 places and is clean.
Two questions. What should I use for the boot and is Stans Tire Sealant going to work like latex to seal the threads on the sidewall? I've got an old 320tpi casing to use as the boot but is seems so thick. Wish I could de-laminate it and use just one layer of threads for the patch. Or a thinner option. Hate to sew it all back up and end up with a lumpy tire.
Thanks for any help
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2f6060baa1.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4bc5d81dbe.jpg
Ha! looks like snake bite

smontanaro 07-26-23 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by HM70 (Post 22964739)
It's a sidewall cut in an almost new generic "Kenda SC" tire.

As I understand it, the Kenda SC is/was a rebranded Veloflex Vlaaderen or ProTour. Not "generic." It seems they were used by team(s) where Kenda was a sponsor.

pastorbobnlnh 07-26-23 12:55 PM

I'd try using a small canvas patch. Probably about an inch beyond the hole. Hold in place with the glue.

HM70 07-26-23 03:34 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22964857)
As I understand it, the Kenda SC is/was a rebranded Veloflex Vlaaderen or ProTour. Not "generic." It seems they were used by team(s) where Kenda was a sponsor.

Oh no! Now I'm feeling much worse about the cuts. However the ride was not quite as supple as my Challenge Stradas were. And I noticed these latex tubes hold air much longer so they must be thicker. What I expected for price I payed. Thanks

MooneyBloke 07-26-23 05:04 PM


Originally Posted by HM70 (Post 22964739)
Two questions. What should I use for the boot and is Stans Tire Sealant going to work like latex to seal the threads on the sidewall?

My most recent repair used a boot made of duck cloth glued to the interior of the casing with E6000 cement. So far it seems to hold up well. I've never done this with a major sidewall cut though. I do have an example hanging around, and I might try to get that similarly patched. I'd be uncomfortable relying on that for serious use though. I suspect with any repair needing a boot, you are going to have a touch of lumpiness. On the other hand, I've had Vitts that were lumpy out of the box. I think the best thing is to get a Speedy Stitcher. With those, it's not too hard to redo the zig-zag stitch. I usually start and end my sewing three stitches from the part I open. As far as a latex for the casing and sticking base tape back, I'd look for Val-A Tear Mender. That's the closest thing to Jevelot's Tire Life I can find. Evidently carpet layers use this sort of thing too, so if you have a friend in flooring, you might have an alternative source.

SJX426 07-27-23 10:18 AM

I now need to get serious about tire repair with a 4th tire now with a hole.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e1e6ff9_3k.jpgDerosaFlatVitG+ on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0d88b39_3k.jpgDeRosaVitGFlatGlass on Flickr

Can I use the inner tube of an old unrideable sew-up as a patch source for latex patch?

spclark 07-27-23 11:37 AM

Any way to put sealant in a non-removable core Presta tube?

The five tires I have (three Vittorias unused from maybe twelve, thirteen years ago) all have fixed cores. I was hoping to add some sealant before getting too far from home on this half-century old Motobecane I've just refurbished. Prospect of a recurring flat or two, even if I carry a couple of spares, isn't an attractive one.

smontanaro 07-27-23 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 22965809)
Can I use the inner tube of an old unrideable sew-up as a patch source for latex patch?

I suspect so, but don't know. I've been told a plain old buyl patch kit will do the trick. I've yet to try. What glue would you use for a latex-to-latex patch?

JohnDThompson 07-27-23 02:49 PM


Originally Posted by spclark (Post 22965908)
Any way to put sealant in a non-removable core Presta tube?

Yes. A syrigine with a section of aquarium tubing will fit over the valve stem. It can be a bit tricky holding the valve open (I use needle-nose pliers over the tubing to grip the knurled nut through the tubing), and often is a little messy, but it can be done.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0d795d69b0.jpg
Otherwise, Velox makes a pressurized inflator with a sealant, and a Shrader-to-presta adaptor:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...57362e5f6f.jpg

gaucho777 07-27-23 03:08 PM

@JohnDThompson That’s a good tip with the tubing. I have a little squirt “syringe” (not sure what to call it) I picked up somewhere. It’s got a small tube that just fits inside the gap once you open up the valve. You can squirt in some sealant this way, but you have to go slow. I use a rag around the base of the valve to catch any spill-over.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e9fe0ddca.jpeg

(This thing currently has a bit of oil in it, but I’ve used it with sealant, too. I just took this photo for demonstration purposes.)

JohnDThompson 07-27-23 03:11 PM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 22966145)
@JohnDThompson Thatís a good tip with the tubing. I have a little squirt ďsyringeĒ (not sure what to call it) I picked up somewhere.

"Precision oiler"
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=precision...f=nb_sb_noss_1

gaucho777 07-27-23 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 22965809)
Can I use the inner tube of an old unrideable sew-up as a patch source for latex patch?

Iíve never had any problems using regular patch kits on latex tubular repairs.

Aardwolf 07-27-23 03:16 PM

Orange Seal has an option to get an injector top - aquarium tube type thingy.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...531f5c1d97.jpg
It unscrews at the cap which makes putting the tube on easier.

79pmooney 07-27-23 03:30 PM


Originally Posted by Aardwolf (Post 22966160)
Orange Seal has an option to get an injector top - aquarium tube type thingy.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...531f5c1d97.jpg
It unscrews at the cap which makes putting the tube on easier.

So if we ever have internal bleeding, we just inject some of that Orange Seal and let it go to work? (I like that Orange Seal but so far, I've only used it in tubulars.)

gaucho777 07-27-23 03:38 PM


Originally Posted by SwimmerMike (Post 22925791)
Not training tubulars, but a killer deal on tubulars that are in your size range.

excel sports has twin packs of either Victoria Corsa Control G2.0 or Victoria Corsa G2.0 for $89 for the pair so $44.50 each.The Corsa controls go up to 30's.

Mike

Thanks for the tip, Mike! That’s a good price. I picked up a pair of the 28 mm in tanwall. Only 3 pairs left after I ordered.

Btw, I did confirm with Excel Sports that these are in fact glue-on tubulars. This, despite the fact the copy description says they can be used with either butyl or latex tubes. Their service rep said that some of the copy is being written by chatGPT (artificial unintelligence) which occasionally leads to errors like this.

spclark 07-27-23 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 22966125)
Yes. A syrigine with a section of aquarium tubing will fit over the valve stem.

Thanks JDT!

That's exACTly what I was envisioning while looking at a bottle of Orange Seal in my LBS store Tuesday while a couple of the local Wrenches were telling me the valve stems had to come out and both of 'em searching for a little plastic thingy used to unscrew the removable ones.

Piece'o'cake!

Shoulda bought the bottle while I was there... neither one of 'em is old enough to know tubulars are worth the effort.

Fredo76 07-27-23 05:16 PM

+1 on Vittoria Corsa Control Graphene 2.0 tubulars, and thanks for the excel sports tip - bought another two on sale just now.

MooneyBloke 07-27-23 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22965987)
I suspect so, but don't know. I've been told a plain old buyl patch kit will do the trick. I've yet to try. What glue would you use for a latex-to-latex patch?

I've used TruFlate universal rubber cement from my local auto parts store. Before that, I wash the patch to get rid of talc, and prep both surfaces with naphtha. (Zippo fluid)

SJX426 07-28-23 05:55 AM

Wouldn't liquid latex work?

Discovered I have two more tires up on the rack.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...91e2a06_4k.jpg2023-02-02_06-40-07 on Flickr

Glued it up in less than 10 minutes, mayb even 5.
Work glove dipped in glue, avoid stings, and apply.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f9f26695_b.jpgVitCorsaG23x700 on Flickr

Biker Pete 07-28-23 08:01 AM

I recently took my 1975 Motobecane Grand Record out of mothballs (it had been in storage in my basement for about 30 years!). Of course the tires and rim glue were all dried out and useless. I cleaned up the entire bike and got new tubular tires and a first for me, rim tape. Iíve ridden the bike about 250 miles and during that time Iíve had one flat on the rear tire. The tires I put on were Vittoria Corsa Graphene 2.0. I replaced the punctured rear tire with a Continental Giro. Iíve used Tufo gluing tape. The Continental has two major advantages imo. First, it is about half the price of the Vittoria and second, the Vittoria loses a substantial amount of air overnight whereas the Continental holds air for weeks. Two thumbs up for the Continental!

SJX426 07-28-23 09:50 AM


Originally Posted by Biker Pete (Post 22966653)
I second, the Vittoria loses a substantial amount of air overnight l!

It uses a latex tube which is lighter, lower rolling resistance and looses air overnight. Higher quality tubulars use latex tubes.
loosing air overnight, maybe less than half the pressure, is to be expected.

The Corsa G+ family of tires are the best from my limited experience. They run better at higher pressures like 125/130 psi.


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