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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

agmetal 04-19-18 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20295011)

I am puzzled about one thing. Height at the top of the seat tube is the same as on my Raleigh Sports step-thru (21 inches from BB to top). But at the front, there is a 2-inch difference in the length of the head tubes, which puts the Rudge MUCH lower at the front (I mean the top of the head tube) than the step thru Sports. I did not expect this.

The same is true of my 1952 diamond frame and 1966 step-through. I hadn't really noticed it until putting the two next to each other recently (neither bike sees much use), but it's quite noticeable with them side-by-side!

paulb_in_bkln 04-19-18 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 20295023)
The same is true of my 1952 diamond frame and 1966 step-through. I hadn't really noticed it until putting the two next to each other recently (neither bike sees much use), but it's quite noticeable with them side-by-side!

Yes, two inches. Quite a lot.

clubman 04-19-18 06:42 PM

I think the women's frames taller headtube gives the top/downtube(s) enough separation to maintain adequate structural integrity.

paulb_in_bkln 04-19-18 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20295126)
I think the women's frames taller headtube gives the top/downtube(s) enough separation to maintain adequate structural integrity.

That makes sense, but I will be looking at a new tall stem, or one of those extender tubes (not out of the question).

paulb_in_bkln 04-19-18 07:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
One more photo.

BigChief 04-19-18 07:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20295011)
This bike is fine. So much for repainting—that’s over. It lacks the hand chainring, but has the old style brake cables and an oil port in the BB. Plus the head tube badge and frame decals, wow. The hub says ’63. Rims? Eh, that’s not superficial rust, I don’t think. Other chrome is darn good. The indicator chain was broken, you’ll see that in the snaps, so I put in a new one and it shifts nicely. Need to pull the left side crank out; it nudges the left chainstay. The B72, well, with plenty of foam crammed underneath, it might give me a little time.

I am puzzled about one thing. Height at the top of the seat tube is the same as on my Raleigh Sports step-thru (21 inches from BB to top). But at the front, there is a 2-inch difference in the length of the head tubes, which puts the Rudge MUCH lower at the front (I mean the top of the head tube) than the step thru Sports. I did not expect this.

Nice! You got a good one. I suspect the left side crank is bent. Easy fix. The paint, transfers and chrome look really good. I love bikes like this. Needs some work, but has tons of potential. For me, it's fun to pick away at the things that need fixing. Looks like somebody changed the shifter at some point. For 1963, it should have one of 2 different styles. The older style had a embossed, upside down faceplate and a threaded ferrule like this:
Attachment 608091
Or, a later style right side up faceplate with no embossing, just printed on graphics and a ball and keyhole style ferrule. The change happened around 62-63.
I really like this bike. Always been especially fond of Rudges.

paulb_in_bkln 04-19-18 07:20 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20295156)
Nice! You got a good one. I suspect the left side crank is bent. Easy fix. The paint, transfers and chrome look really good. I love bikes like this. Needs some work, but has tons of potential. For me, it's fun to pick away at the things that need fixing. Looks like somebody changed the shifter at some point.

I'll straighten the crank, no problem. God knows how many times they needed pulling out on my bike when I was a kid. I was wondering about that shifter.... The grips don't match, so, no surprise. But the paint! It is so good! Now I've got it, how do I deal with those old-style brake wires if they need replacing? Just screw something to the end of the new wire to anchor it in the caliper?

johnnyspaghetti 04-19-18 07:24 PM

Is this a SA product?

https://images.craigslist.org/00T0T_...Cz_600x450.jpg

https://lacrosse.craigslist.org/bik/...544884273.html

johnnyspaghetti 04-19-18 07:47 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20295011)
This bike is fine. So much for repaintingóthatís over. It lacks the hand chainring, but has the old style brake cables and an oil port in the BB. Plus the head tube badge and frame decals, wow. The hub says í63. Rims? Eh, thatís not superficial rust, I donít think. Other chrome is darn good. The indicator chain was broken, youíll see that in the snaps, so I put in a new one and it shifts nicely. Need to pull the left side crank out; it nudges the left chainstay. The B72, well, with plenty of foam crammed underneath, it might give me a little time.

I am puzzled about one thing. Height at the top of the seat tube is the same as on my Raleigh Sports step-thru (21 inches from BB to top). But at the front, there is a 2-inch difference in the length of the head tubes, which puts the Rudge MUCH lower at the front (I mean the top of the head tube) than the step thru Sports. I did not expect this.

Way nice

desconhecido 04-19-18 09:49 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20295152)
That makes sense, but I will be looking at a new tall stem, or one of those extender tubes (not out of the question).

There were extra long stems, but I think they were rare. Problem with replacing with a repro is bar diameter. The old steel bars were small diameter -- about 23mm, as I recall.

Niagara does sell long stems that are style appropriate and "north" style bars, both in 25.4, and they're not expensive.

Too bad if you replace as the ones on the Rudge look to be in good shape.

BigChief 04-19-18 09:50 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20295196)
I'll straighten the crank, no problem. God knows how many times they needed pulling out on my bike when I was a kid. I was wondering about that shifter.... The grips don't match, so, no surprise. But the paint! It is so good! Now I've got it, how do I deal with those old-style brake wires if they need replacing? Just screw something to the end of the new wire to anchor it in the caliper?

I hope you don't need to change them. I never do unless they're frayed. I have seen people use cable knarps, but the cleanest method is to silver braze a piece of steel that fits the caliper onto a new cable end. Another method to swap out the calipers for later Raleigh calipers that use a pinch bolt.

oldveloman 04-20-18 02:59 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20294861)
Marvelous paintings.

Thanks Paul !

paulb_in_bkln 04-20-18 04:12 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20295395)
There were extra long stems, but I think they were rare. Problem with replacing with a repro is bar diameter. The old steel bars were small diameter -- about 23mm, as I recall.

Niagara does sell long stems that are style appropriate and "north" style bars, both in 25.4, and they're not expensive.

Too bad if you replace as the ones on the Rudge look to be in good shape.

A 23-inch frame would have been best for me. But, there are those longer steel stems--I put one on that Space Rider I overhauled for a friend five years ago. And it looks as if Sunlite still produces their quill extender. So practically speaking it's not a problem. (Although the extender doesn't give the greatest look.) I have a Technomic tall alloy stem on another bike, which doesn't really need it, and a shim would let it hold the Raleigh bars.

paulb_in_bkln 04-20-18 04:16 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20295398)
I hope you don't need to change them. I never do unless they're frayed. I have seen people use cable knarps, but the cleanest method is to silver braze a piece of steel that fits the caliper onto a new cable end. Another method to swap out the calipers for later Raleigh calipers that use a pinch bolt.

It's reassuring to know that solutions are available even if there isn't a problem. I've got to look up "knarp." Where the heck does that word come from? Biggest concern right now is those rims.

gster 04-20-18 05:02 AM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20295011)
This bike is fine. So much for repaintingóthatís over. It lacks the hand chainring, but has the old style brake cables and an oil port in the BB. Plus the head tube badge and frame decals, wow. The hub says í63. Rims? Eh, thatís not superficial rust, I donít think. Other chrome is darn good. The indicator chain was broken, youíll see that in the snaps, so I put in a new one and it shifts nicely. Need to pull the left side crank out; it nudges the left chainstay. The B72, well, with plenty of foam crammed underneath, it might give me a little time.

I am puzzled about one thing. Height at the top of the seat tube is the same as on my Raleigh Sports step-thru (21 inches from BB to top). But at the front, there is a 2-inch difference in the length of the head tubes, which puts the Rudge MUCH lower at the front (I mean the top of the head tube) than the step thru Sports. I did not expect this.

Nice purchase.
Re Brakes
Those cables (NOS) are pretty hard to find these days and
expensive.
I generally replace the calipers with second generation ones that accept a regular cable.
BC's advice to build custom cables is another option.
Attachment 608154

Paint and decals all look good.
You can try cleaning the rims with tin foil and water
but I suspect some of that rust will remain.
Keep your eye out for discarded rims outside bike shops etc.
These projects can be a "Slow Burn".
I found a rounded crank arm last week and installed on a project I
had "finished" 2 years ago.
Keep the photos coming and try to document your progress.
Attachment 608152
Amongst the parts included with this basket case was a rounded crank that made it's way over to this bike.
Attachment 608153

BigChief 04-20-18 05:31 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20295652)
It's reassuring to know that solutions are available even if there isn't a problem. I've got to look up "knarp." Where the heck does that word come from? Biggest concern right now is those rims.

CR-18s would be nice! One thing to consider...You may not need to raise the bars. After you raise the seatpost and get the leg extension you want, you may be perfectly happy with the upper body position with the bars where they are now. Raising the bars does give you some more problems to solve. For one, making up custom length cables, but I can say that I am very pleased with the way my 21" Rudge turned out with the tall SunLite stem. Handles beautifully. To me, all this stuff is fun. Not sure how you feel about it. I prefer the Sunlite stem over longer Raleigh stems and stem extenders because the Sunlite has a longer neck to the clamp that makes up for the reach from the saddle you loose as the bars get higher.

Attachment 608158

thumpism 04-20-18 05:47 AM

Looks like they're breaking up the set that was advertised for $150.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...565325045.html

Vintage Ladies Raleigh City Bike - $50 (Chester, Va)

https://images.craigslist.org/01717_...pj_600x450.jpg

East Hundred Road

condition: good
make / manufacturer: Raleigh
model name / number: Sports 3 speed
size / dimensions: 54cm

Ladies Raleigh Sports 3 speed, very good condition but will need tires for daily use. Frame

measures 54cm and seat and grips are included. Call or text show contact info
for more info.

BigChief 04-20-18 08:07 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20295672)

These projects can be a "Slow Burn".
I found a rounded crank arm last week and installed on a project I
had "finished" 2 years ago.

Yes!! That's part of the fun. I like this Rudge a lot. To me it's very much worth long term touch ups. I would have fun hunting down better rims, pinch bolt brakes if it needed new cables and a period correct shifter. Someday I'd get it a new Brooks B66 and a Carradice bag:love: At first, I think I would just do the normal servicing, clean and touch up rusty spots on the paint, go over the paint with polishing compound and wax and ride it for the summer.

gster 04-20-18 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20295933)
Yes!! That's part of the fun. I like this Rudge a lot. To me it's very much worth long term touch ups. I would have fun hunting down better rims, pinch bolt brakes if it needed new cables and a period correct shifter. Someday I'd get it a new Brooks B66 and a Carradice bag:love: At first, I think I would just do the normal servicing, clean and touch up rusty spots on the paint, go over the paint with polishing compound and wax and ride it for the summer.

Agreed.
Get it serviced and on the road and then work on the upgrades/improvements etc. as time permits.

markk900 04-20-18 09:20 AM

+1 on the tin foil for the chrome - most of not all of that surface rust will be gone with a little elbow grease. I use WD40 as a bit of a lune when I do the foil trick.

rustystrings61 04-20-18 09:58 AM

The '63 Rudge above is almost identical to the one I had when I was a college student in the 80s - only mine had a front dynohub. It was a wonderful bike and is one of exactly two bikes I genuinely wish I had hung onto. I suspect you will find it to have a special ride quality that I somehow never quite got out of the allegedly identical Raleighs. Maybe it was all in my head.

Beautiful bike, btw.

rhm 04-20-18 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20295201)

I don't think so. I suspect the shifter shown is made in England, but not by Sturmey Archer. Brampton made shifters that looked a lot like that --same curve to the trigger, anyway. More than a couple other English companies made Sturmey Archer hubs under license; BSA, Brampton, and Hercules come to mind, and I may be missing something.

rhm 04-20-18 10:33 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20295398)
I hope you don't need to change them. I never do unless they're frayed. I have seen people use cable knarps, but the cleanest method is to silver braze a piece of steel that fits the caliper onto a new cable end. Another method to swap out the calipers for later Raleigh calipers that use a pinch bolt.

+1.

Another way to make a custom cable is to crimp a spoke nipple onto the end of the cable. You need all the correct Raleigh small parts from an old brake cable, as well as new housing, cable, and a spoke nipple. If you use a proper crimper tool, the spoke nipple is virtually impossible to remove. For a crimper, I especially like one made by HPK for Bell Systems, by the thousands, back in the days of land line telephones; available on ebay for $10-$20. If you get it in the wrong place, you need to cut it off and try again.

paulb_in_bkln 04-20-18 10:51 AM

All great suggestions. Thank you all. I hadn't thought of using WD40 with the aluminum foil. This bike is much cooler than what I anticipated. I keep the Sports step thru mechanically perfect because I ride it so much, but looks-wise it's kind of a beater. That won't fly with this Rudge. First thing is straighten the crank so I can spend time on it. It just nudges the chainstay and I want to avoid making a spot in the paint.

johnnyspaghetti 04-20-18 11:06 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 20296296)
I don't think so. I suspect the shifter shown is made in England, but not by Sturmey Archer. Brampton made shifters that looked a lot like that --same curve to the trigger, anyway. More than a couple other English companies made Sturmey Archer hubs under license; BSA, Brampton, and Hercules come to mind, and I may be missing something.

I thought Brampton. It's on a 1959 Schwinn so it's not English but my have English roots to it's gearing.


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