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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

arex 04-23-16 07:38 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18713329)
@arex - pictures or it didn't happen.:thumb: I'm glad I could help out. How much more work until it's rideable?

I'll try to take some pics tonight.

I pretty much have all the bits to start reassembling the bike. I built a new front wheel a few nights ago, but even though it's only a smidge wobbly, I want to take it to the LBS to true and tension it, I don't trust myself to do it right.

I need to rebuild the AW hub, mostly just to regrease the bearings...it seems to work fine otherwise. Then I'll build a new wheel around it; I already have the rim and spokes.

I still need to fabricate a spacer for the headset before I reassemble that end of things.

BigChief 04-23-16 09:37 PM


Originally Posted by hatrack71 (Post 18713291)
Thanks to the caked on grease that saved the paint. She is in as nice of shape as I have seen a late 60's 3 speed. I'll probably ditch the current pedals for a more euro pair of Lyotards with some metal Christophe toe clips.

Love this color. Beautiful bike!

DQRider 04-24-16 08:11 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18713656)
Love this color. Beautiful bike!

What a beauty! Not a mark on it? I concur with artclone - that bike looks like it came out of a time capsule, or a museum. Nice score! :thumb:

artclone 04-24-16 09:00 AM

I just have to repost @DQRiders sweet find he put in the Are You Looking For thread:

1964 AMF/Raleigh Hercules

Not our usual fare here, but I found this on my Sunday morning peruse of CL:

http://images.craigslist.org/00X0X_c...wW_600x450.jpg

Asking price is $75, and the thing is nearly immaculate.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/a...523187393.html[/QUOTE]

DQRider 04-24-16 09:12 AM


Originally Posted by artclone (Post 18714267)
I just have to repost @DQRiders sweet find he put in the Are You Looking For thread:

After seeing @hatrack71 's gorgeous find, I went over to CL to see if we had anything similar locally. While the color is not quite as nice as Mr. Hatrack's, it is from the same year, and with a different, peculiar chainguard. I remember that period (late `50s to early `60s) of transition from the old traditional rounded aesthetic to the new, angular design ethic and, even though I was only a toddler at the time, I wondered why the new cars I was seeing looked so much different from the majority of the older cars in the neighborhood. The dawn of the space age, I guess. It would be nice to find an AMF bicycle catalogue from that time so we could see how many different models of 3-speed they built in `64.

arex 04-24-16 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by hatrack71 (Post 18713280)
I got this one yesterday and already got it running perfectly after replacing a spoke and making adjustments to almost everything. It was really dirty and had lots of grease on it. Sturmey works great as do the the brakes... suprisingly after proper setup.http://www.bikeforums.net/clear.gif

What year is it, do you know?

ChimChim 04-24-16 02:53 PM

Here is the Robin Hood I fixed up for the Lady:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nz...=w1004-h753-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kw...=w1034-h775-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l3...=w1034-h775-no

The "barstool" seat might have to go eventually, but i've tried it myself and it is pretty comfy

BigChief 04-24-16 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by ChimChim (Post 18714908)
Here is the Robin Hood I fixed up for the Lady:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nz...=w1004-h753-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kw...=w1034-h775-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l3...=w1034-h775-no

The "barstool" seat might have to go eventually, but i've tried it myself and it is pretty comfy

That's gorgeous. I like the look of the whitewalls with the white grips and cable casings. Pretty sure it would have originally come with a 2 tone, white and black mattress saddle like this Royal Scot variant. Raleigh moved into the black and white 2 tone look in the mid 60s.
These saddles look the part, but they are unusable for me. I put it on for the picture.
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...l_scot001a.jpg

ChimChim 04-24-16 04:07 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18714999)
These saddles look the part, but they are unusable for me. I put it on for the picture.

Funny, I've noticed the same thing with two tone Schwinn "S" saddles

Velocivixen 04-24-16 05:59 PM

I saw this somewhere online and decided to try it. Raleigh Twenty folding bikes have notoriously long brake caliper arms which are flexy upon braking. I used a zip tie between the fork and the brake caliper arm to decrease the flex and it actually seems to work. I'm waiting for it to rain again so I can take it out and get the wheels wet and see how much of a difference it makes. It's not pretty. Heck, maybe I could get some Carradice leather straps and use those instead of zip ties!

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1600/...9f7de8361e.jpgZip Tie on Brake Caliper by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1716/...f784059d31.jpgRaleigh Twenty Zip Tie Brakes by velocivixen, on Flickr

erileykc 04-24-16 06:23 PM

I have a bad feeling about this, to quote Indiana Jones.

Just cleaned out and lubed the SA hub on my 1979 Tourist. I've disassembled and reassembled the hub three times now because the index rod is not protruding from the axle by the one millimeter prescribed by all hallowed Sheldon Brown without unthreading the rod until barely a single turn of threading is mated to the cross bar in the gear housing.

In addition to this indignity I have to thread the gear cable adjusting sleeve almost all the way off the threaded rod with precious little thread connecting the cable to the chain after adjusting the wheel far enough back to get a reasonable amount of chain tension. Third gear is very touchy now, jumping before it catches and occasionally freewheeling entirely.

I should have noted these relationships when I took it all apart but I failed to do so. Are these extreme ends of adjustment the norm with old Sturmey Archer hubs?

BigChief 04-24-16 06:35 PM


Originally Posted by erileykc (Post 18715267)
I have a bad feeling about this, to quote Indiana Jones.

Just cleaned out and lubed the SA hub on my 1979 Tourist. I've disassembled and reassembled the hub three times now because the index rod is not protruding from the axle by the one millimeter prescribed by all hallowed Sheldon Brown without unthreading the rod until barely a single turn of threading is mated to the cross bar in the gear housing.

In addition to this indignity I have to thread the gear cable adjusting sleeve almost all the way off the threaded rod with precious little thread connecting the cable to the chain after adjusting the wheel far enough back to get a reasonable amount of chain tension. Third gear is very touchy now, jumping before it catches and occasionally freewheeling entirely.

I should have noted these relationships when I took it all apart but I failed to do so. Are these extreme ends of adjustment the norm with old Sturmey Archer hubs?

Not all indicator pins are the same length. The Sheldon Brown method isn't always reliable. I don't use it.
You do have some more adjustment by moving the fulcrum clip on the top tube. You can get the adjuster barrel closer to the chain by moving the clip toward the seat a bit.

BigChief 04-24-16 06:42 PM


Originally Posted by ChimChim (Post 18715016)
Funny, I've noticed the same thing with two tone Schwinn "S" saddles

Yeah, they were popular. They look nice. Too bad they're such crappy saddles. I knew Raleigh used them on the kids bikes like the Colt and Space Rider, but I never thought they used them on Sports models until I saw this old catalog. Apparently, not all Sports models were DL-22s. There was a cheaper model, S22 that used these very same saddles. Your bike is inspiring me to put white walls on the Scot.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...talog-1962.pdf

Velocivixen 04-24-16 06:43 PM

As BigChief says, screw the adjuster barrel, say, half way up the end of the chain/pin, then loosen and adjust the fulcrum clip rearward to give you more slack on the cable. I hope that makes sense. If not someone can come along and clarify.

Did this hub work prior to your disassembly? The indicator pin screws in finger tight only so as not to strip the tiny threads, then back it off so the chain makes a smooth transition to where you attatch the adjusting barrel.


This fellow does an excellent tear down & reassemble of an AW hub. He has two other videos where shows more detail about the gear ring sub-assembly and the planet cage sub-assembly in great detail. When in doubt I always watch these videos.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6krXSs-lc

BigChief 04-25-16 05:23 AM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18713462)
I'll try to take some pics tonight.

I pretty much have all the bits to start reassembling the bike. I built a new front wheel a few nights ago, but even though it's only a smidge wobbly, I want to take it to the LBS to true and tension it, I don't trust myself to do it right.

I need to rebuild the AW hub, mostly just to regrease the bearings...it seems to work fine otherwise. Then I'll build a new wheel around it; I already have the rim and spokes.

I still need to fabricate a spacer for the headset before I reassemble that end of things.

Glad you found a work around to the reversed cup situation. I'm wondering why you need a custom spacer for the headset. Are you leaving the nylon bushing or changing to the usual bearings?

BigChief 04-25-16 05:37 AM

Melting brown eyes? Gimme a break...it's the roadster.
The truth behind Sir Paul McCartney's rise to the top of the charts * | Daily Mail Online

arex 04-25-16 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18716004)
Glad you found a work around to the reversed cup situation. I'm wondering why you need a custom spacer for the headset. Are you leaving the nylon bushing or changing to the usual bearings?

Putting in a threadless headset, using the original top nut and a spacer, so I can use an tall quill stem. Rather than use multiple spacers to fill the gap, I have a piece of thick-wall aluminum tube that I need to cut to length and open up the inside to the full 25.4mm ((currently 24.8mm or so).

I don't know that it's a work-around, so much as accepting the situation and hoping it'll do for the long term. I'll check the cups regularly and tighten as necessary...short of putting in a different bottom bracket, I can't think of anything else to do.

peppep 04-25-16 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18710203)
@peppep, you don't need to replace your shift cable, and you're better off not doing it. That damage looks minimal and inconsequential.

And you haven't mentioned why you want to replace your brake cables. Maybe you don't have to do that, either. You can't get cables that are as well-made as the originals, so stick with them if you can.

Oof, ok. Another piece of learning, here! I was taught that replacing cables is part of basic maintenance on any bike. Apparently not always true. I will take your advice and clean up the current cables instead. Because some of the housing is worn out, I can replace that. Probably with standard housing for now, unless/until I can find some that matches the look better. Need to get this project moving!

BigChief 04-25-16 12:29 PM

Can't replace the casing without cutting the cable. Even the plain end brake cable will be chewed up by the pinch bolt. The way I figure it, if the cable has broken strands or is choked up with rust and is still feeling crunchy even after oiling, I replace em. If they still run smoothly, I leave em.

peppep 04-25-16 01:26 PM

Roger. Ok. Thanks for the hand-holding on this one. :beer:

arex 04-25-16 08:35 PM

A mockup. Things aren't quite where they ought to be yet. I may or may not narrow the handlebars about three inches, since these are quite a bit wider than stock.

http://i.imgur.com/rDL2SxK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/z3X9lr5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/U4WmJb4.jpg

agmetal 04-25-16 09:45 PM

I just picked this up today:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...39&oe=57BF32B3
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...6a&oe=57A1731E
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...06&oe=57B3CBA8
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...8e&oe=579E42E4
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...47&oe=57A2B712
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4f&oe=57B25B40
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ec&oe=57BDEC25
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...28&oe=57AB24D6

BigChief 04-26-16 04:46 AM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18716439)
Putting in a threadless headset, using the original top nut and a spacer, so I can use an tall quill stem. Rather than use multiple spacers to fill the gap, I have a piece of thick-wall aluminum tube that I need to cut to length and open up the inside to the full 25.4mm ((currently 24.8mm or so).

I don't know that it's a work-around, so much as accepting the situation and hoping it'll do for the long term. I'll check the cups regularly and tighten as necessary...short of putting in a different bottom bracket, I can't think of anything else to do.

A few pages back, Velocivixen said that since the headset upgrade she made on her 20, she was unhappy with the handling and was considering replacing the original system. I found this interesting because it made me think that perhaps the nylon bushing in the headset wasn't a cost cutting measure, but an effort by Raleigh engineers to damp the steering.

noglider 04-26-16 08:11 AM

@Velocivixen, my gut feeling is that flexing forward is only part of the problem with those brakes, and it might even be a small part. Please let us know how it goes. My intuition says that it's flexing in the direction of the compression of the arms.

@BigChief, maybe the plastic bushing is to dampen steering, but whatever the thinking, I think it's pretty horrible. Eventually, I will get back to renovating my Twenty. I'm putting in a threadless headset with proper bearings on top and bottom.

Velocivixen 04-26-16 08:32 AM

@BigChief - I'm pretty sure someone on this thread (Not 100%, but maybe @Sixty Fiver) said something along the lines that the nylon bushing wanted to make steering feel like a Raleigh Sport - more "normal", and that for bike folding when you loosen the clamp at the top of the headset the handlebars don't go wildly spinning. As you lower the stem into the folded position the nylon bushing acts to dampen the movement a bit, so you're not fighting with handlebars moving around too much as you lower. At least that's my takeaway.

The modern headset on my first Twenty is very smooth, but it makes the bike feel slightly more responsive, I guess you'd say. I know Sheldon Brown said you can't ride no handed with the original nylon bushing. I don't ride it no handed anyway - that'd be so unBritish. :thumb:
@noglider - I'll keep you posted on my experiment with the zip ties. When I got the bike a couple weeks ago I trued up the wheels, polished the chrome rims, installed Cane Creek Grey Matter brake pads (soft material great for steel) and noted some squealing. I used a big wrench to turn the caliper arms to allow the brake pads to run parallel to the rim and even a tiny bit toed in, and most of the squealing disappeared. As I rode the bike in the rain storm I got caught in I noted the front caliper arms shuddering near the final stop of my braking. I recalled someone, from a different site, if I recall, put zip ties on so I figured I'd give it a go. It seemed to stop the shuddering, but in all fairness by the time I got home and out on zip ties I was wet and didn't go back out for any extended ride.

Its supposed to be wet tomorrow, so I will go out and see how or what it does.

noglider 04-26-16 09:24 AM

The zip ties might remedy the shuddering, but shuddering doesn't decrease overall stopping power. It just makes braking unpleasant and sometimes hard to control.

gster 04-27-16 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 18705460)
Like all things British: oil leaks by design to prevent rust and to remind you to add oil every once in a while!

Yes! Even at the British Motor Cycle Museum in Birmingham, all of the bikes had a puddle of oil under them.

gster 04-27-16 08:56 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Lt Uhura on a Moulton....
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=518382

gster 04-27-16 09:23 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Toronto Vintage Bicycle Show 2016
The date is July 24th this year and will be held at Trinity Bellwoods Park.
More details and poster to follow.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=518388

agmetal 04-27-16 10:12 AM

So, a couple days ago I posted pictures of a 1975 Tourist that I'd picked up. I've been in search of something REALLY old, though, having been inspired by the realization that the AW hub is 80 years old this year, along with seeing and servicing a customer's beautiful '50s lady Sports with full chain case. I picked up that bike since it was a good deal for a DL-1 in this area, and since it has the rod brakes, it still looks like a much older model. However, while talking to a coworker about it (specifically, about sourcing parts), he called up a friend who has something even closer to what I've been looking for. I'll hold off on specifics until I actually have the bike in hand (probably tomorrow), but what can you guys tell me about the K type hub, as compared to the AW?


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