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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

thumpism 12-03-17 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20029252)
Wow! What a great find. This happened to me in the 70s. Still have a pile of old shifters from that box. @plympton is in need of a clutch spring cap last I heard. I also see a splined, straight leg driver there that would be perfect for anyone looking to convert an older threaded driver hub to use modern cogs. Rare part.

I'll have to inventory everything and compare to an exploded diagram. It's been a long time since I've been inside a 3-speed (they usually work!) but my Tourist has one that has stopped engaging so I plan on a rebuild and suspect pawl springs, the main reason I grabbed all this stuff.

Interestingly, I did not get all the stuff he had. He also had numerous rear SA hubs complete (mostly 28H) and more various parts including what I think are threaded cogs for the older threaded drivers you mention (and which I have never seen), several SunTour copies of SA 3-speed hubs, several Shimano 3-speed hubs, plus Shimano cables and parts, twistgrip shifters and cables.

thumpism 12-03-17 11:25 AM


Originally Posted by campngolf (Post 20029275)
What a great find. Those should polish up nicely. But definitely no repaint, it'll hurt the value. :)

Paint the cabinets? Polish up the cabinets? Even if I put those tasks on my list I'd likely never get to them, but I'm just not a paintin'/polishin' kind of guy.

BigChief 12-03-17 11:32 AM

16GC spindles aren't that common. BB cups are a little easier to find. I checked eBay. Right now the only one I see would end up costing over 50 dollars. It would be better to buy a junker out of CL and salvage a bunch of parts. It may be that a spindle swap is all his bike needs, but considering the damage I see, I suspect that the cups may be damaged also. I know a total BB replacement is an expensive proposition, not to mention the hassle of removing the fixed cup, but I think that is what is called for here.

Velocivixen 12-03-17 11:48 AM

@sirMike1983 - Thank you for posting your little green Twenty. Mine are sitting, unridden in the garage......You’ve inspired me t go ride one.
@thumpism - I think your find from the closing shop is wonderful! I’m so envious. Those would be something that I would buy, just to have, if not use.

jamesj 12-03-17 12:15 PM

I just took another look and it is a 1. Ill have to look at the co-op.

thanx!



Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20029771)
Are you sure this is a 6 and not a "16" with the "1" partially obliterated? If you look closely at that numbering, you can almost see a "1" next to the 6 that was lightly struck. The 16GC also would be common to the Sports frame size, which is consistent with a Superbe based on the Sports platform.

When you measure it, you not only measure the full length of the spindle, but also the distance between the bearing races on it. If you get both measurements, you may be able to compare to a known 16GC set of numbers and determine if that is actually a #6 or if it was a #16 with the 1 lightly struck. If it's a 16GC, you ought to be able to find one online in fairly short order - they are very common.


thumpism 12-03-17 12:20 PM

A friend of mine has a Twenty hanging in her garage. They used to live in Blacksburg VA and the bike got regular use in town on rides from home to work and grocery, but they moved to hillier Connecticut about 30 years ago and I'd wager it has not budged since. I'm tempted to pry it away from them and trick it out but there are so many new lighter machines (Origami, right here in town) that it would almost be a waste of time and money spent on the Twenty.

Also, I'm active on a Vanagon forum and one guy there has a Twenty gussied up with alloys, a suspension fork and other mods that probably cost a modest bundle. I'll see if I can find pix.

plympton 12-03-17 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20029085)
Well, a longtime shop in the area is going away. The current owner has had it for more than three decades and he bought it from an old guy who did lots of bread-and-butter low end work. It's been years since I saw the warehouse area but this was the last day and I asked if I could see it and Randy turned me loose. Found some goodies I'll never use but could not resist, two little parts cabinets with Sturmey Archer labels on the front and chock full of SA parts. Let me know if you need anything.
Attachment 591066

would you happen to have a spring cap?

BigChief 12-03-17 02:01 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20029928)
@sirMike1983 - Thank you for posting your little green Twenty. Mine are sitting, unridden in the garage......Youíve inspired me t go ride one.
@thumpism - I think your find from the closing shop is wonderful! Iím so envious. Those would be something that I would buy, just to have, if not use.

I hope you get back into 3 speedin again. You always had interesting projects. Last I recall, you were drilling out a cotter. You did a very clean job of it.

gster 12-03-17 03:42 PM


Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 20028712)
It's been a while since I last posted to this thread. My '64 Armstrong has gotten dusty because the 21" frame with the original short seatpost was too small a fit for me, and the chromed steel rims were never confidence-inspiring.

But as the weather has cooled off, I've had the itch to play with bikes, and I thought: "what could I do to make this bike work better for me?" So I ordered a longer seatpost for better leg extension and a Sun CR18 rim for the front wheel:

https://i.imgur.com/JM5adP7.jpg?1

This was my first time re-rimming a wheel using the existing hub and spokes, and I had an interesting confound, in that one rim was drilled left-handed while the other right-handed (I'm not sure which is which.) At any rate, I decided to advance all of the right-side spokes by one hole on the hub, and then purposefully lace everything one hole "off" to the new rim. That put the valve back between parallel spokes and got the handedness right:

https://i.imgur.com/jVWYEUs.jpg?1

(For those who may be interested, I found that the ERD of the original steel rim and the Sun CR18 wasn't an exact match, as is sometimes claimed. While I was able to reuse the old spokes, the CR18's ERD is smaller, so I had to file down a few spoke ends to keep them from poking out through the holes in the rim's well.)

Replacing the seatpost was an interesting operation, as the original was a little shy of 1" in diameter, and the replacement isn't! The seat tube ears had of course bent inward over the years, and so I tried the old trick of "jacking" the seat tube ears back out using a quill stem and a shim. I had to file the inside edges of the seat tube ears to take off some sharp edges, and upended the bike for this operation to keep filings from dropping into the bottom bracket. Some careful wiping and a little grease, and the new seatpost went right in!

I finally got the bike back together this afternoon and rode it around the neighborhood, stopping and making adjustments now and then. Much better! Maybe I'll ride this bike more often now. :)

https://i.imgur.com/khhscrB.jpg

A handsome machine.

gster 12-03-17 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20029928)
@sirMike1983 - Thank you for posting your little green Twenty. Mine are sitting, unridden in the garage......Youíve inspired me t go ride one.
@thumpism - I think your find from the closing shop is wonderful! Iím so envious. Those would be something that I would buy, just to have, if not use.

Good to see VV back.
There's a 20 near me for sale @ a reasonable $80.00 (CDN).
It's the Supercycle branded version but I still can't see myself riding one.
Perhaps I'm a "sizeist"....

SirMike1983 12-03-17 03:54 PM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 20029989)
I just took another look and it is a 1. Ill have to look at the co-op.

thanx!

Yes - co-op, Sports junker, online; you will probably find a decent 16gc if you dig a little. Look for a bike with frame or fork damage, orn incomplete, but with the bb parts still there. You can probably get one cheaply with a little effort.

ThermionicScott 12-03-17 04:04 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20030271)
A handsome machine.

Thanks, gster! These old 3-speeds exude a lot of class for what you pay. :thumb:

BigChief 12-03-17 04:12 PM

OK, I've got to do something here. I've got 30 years worth of boxes to dig through. I already found a 16GC spindle and an adjustable cup that's not part of a set. I'm sure I remember a clutch spring cap somewhere. It was one of those new plastic ones, bright red as I recall. I'll keep looking.

thumpism 12-03-17 07:09 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by plympton (Post 20030125)
would you happen to have a spring cap?

I gave a cursory look in all the drawers and no K529-Clutch Spring Cap. I'll let you know if I find one. Might have one in a junk hub, if I can dig out one of those. I would think you could make a cap easily enough if you found the right piece to begin with, like maybe the cap from a Chapstick that you could cut down and drill.
Attachment 591191

SirMike1983 12-03-17 07:26 PM

A couple pictures from a 60-degree day here. Really good weather for December.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Np0Yqz1ND...203_151244.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GpBB83RcI...203_151233.jpg

BigChief 12-03-17 07:40 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20030655)
I gave a cursory look in all the drawers and no K529-Clutch Spring Cap. I'll let you know if I find one. Might have one in a junk hub, if I can dig out one of those. I would think you could make a cap easily enough if you found the right piece to begin with, like maybe the cap from a Chapstick that you could cut down and drill.
Attachment 591191

I don't know why they used those "K" designations on those exploded diagrams. They don't seem to be the official part numbers. Or maybe they were at one time. The HSA numbers are more useful for parts searching. In this case the clutch spring cap is HSA 129. I'm sure I have one somewhere. It stuck in my mind because it is red plastic and I didn't know what it was at first. I'll look again tomorrow.

Velocivixen 12-04-17 07:17 AM

@BigChief - if I’m not mistaken, SA changed their parts numbering scheme along the way. I figured it out when I was looking for a part once.
@gster- It’s all good. I ride my Twenty’s short distances - maybe in a 3 mile radius from home, but that’s just me. I’m 5’6”, so a Twenty is a good size for me and my proportions.

ThermionicScott 12-04-17 09:26 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20030713)
I don't know why they used those "K" designations on those exploded diagrams. They don't seem to be the official part numbers. Or maybe they were at one time. The HSA numbers are more useful for parts searching. In this case the clutch spring cap is HSA 129. I'm sure I have one somewhere. It stuck in my mind because it is red plastic and I didn't know what it was at first. I'll look again tomorrow.

Wasn't the AW hub descended from the K hub, with only minor changes? I thought I read that somewhere on Sheldon's page (or some other site linked from it.)

Salubrious 12-04-17 02:05 PM

^^ Yes.

clubman 12-04-17 05:11 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20030713)
I don't know why they used those "K" designations on those exploded diagrams. They don't seem to be the official part numbers. Or maybe they were at one time. The HSA numbers are more useful for parts searching. In this case the clutch spring cap is HSA 129. I'm sure I have one somewhere. It stuck in my mind because it is red plastic and I didn't know what it was at first. I'll look again tomorrow.

I once posted a reference chart that matched the early K series with the later HSA numbers. Can't find it anywhere but it exists.

johnnyspaghetti 12-05-17 02:50 AM

So much for autumn, Winter arrived in Minnesota YES. Changing seats to water resistant. Might squirt some oil more often. I like getting the rims oily& dirty they clean so nicely in the spring! It was 57 F at 4:00pm and is now 15 F at 6:00am

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...0832-local0&zw

plympton 12-05-17 07:23 AM

[QUOTE=thumpism;20030655]I gave a cursory look in all the drawers and no K529-Clutch Spring Cap. I'll let you know if I find one. Might have one in a junk hub, if I can dig out one of those. I would think you could make a cap easily enough if you found the right piece to begin with, like maybe the cap from a Chapstick that you could cut down and drill.

Yes I have made one from a lamp part where the neck was just right. It's seems to be working fine and I have another idea for making one. It will be a while before these bikes are reassembled so I'm just keeping the option of finding the correct part open. It's a matter of being a cheap Irishman, 70 cents parts and $4.62 to ship.

BigChief 12-05-17 07:51 AM

[QUOTE=plympton;20033852]

Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20030655)
I gave a cursory look in all the drawers and no K529-Clutch Spring Cap. I'll let you know if I find one. Might have one in a junk hub, if I can dig out one of those. I would think you could make a cap easily enough if you found the right piece to begin with, like maybe the cap from a Chapstick that you could cut down and drill.

Yes I have made one from a lamp part where the neck was just right. It's seems to be working fine and I have another idea for making one. It will be a while before these bikes are reassembled so I'm just keeping the option of finding the correct part open. It's a matter of being a cheap Irishman, 70 cents parts and $4.62 to ship.

Ah good! Backyard ingenuity is always helpful when dealing with obsolete machinery. The original part for your hub would have been stamped steel anyway. The newer ones are plastic. There's a bunch of stuff I remember having that I can't find now. Must not have survived the last move.

plympton 12-05-17 11:14 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Second option: I then made this one.
Attachment 591361

BigChief 12-05-17 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20030693)
A couple pictures from a 60-degree day here. Really good weather for December.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Np0Yqz1ND...203_151244.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GpBB83RcI...203_151233.jpg

The green color really shows up in these photos. Very nice. What a classy and unusual roadster. Did you make the Dynohub functional? Light bulbs for those must be getting pretty rare these days.

SirMike1983 12-05-17 09:31 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20034572)
The green color really shows up in these photos. Very nice. What a classy and unusual roadster. Did you make the Dynohub functional? Light bulbs for those must be getting pretty rare these days.

I was lucky in that the system worked 'out of the box' when I got the bike - it just needed a clean up. A few years ago, I bought a couple of the drop-in halogen replacements for the original headlight bulbs, so I put one of those in. They were being sold in England and I bought a couple to try. They put out more light than the original headlight bulbs, but less than an LED. If I need serious light, I hook up a Cree LED to the handle bars.

dweenk 12-08-17 02:15 PM

Step down ferrules
 
1 Attachment(s)
I was able to get a few of these today, and was curious if any members needed 1 or 2. I have 6 available. PM me.

johnnyspaghetti 12-08-17 09:17 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20041315)
I was able to get a few of these today, and was curious if any members needed 1 or 2. I have 6 available. PM me.

Is that a trigger or brake lever cable casing end? I don't believe I have a need, I'm just trying to place the part.

dweenk 12-09-17 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20042049)
Is that a trigger or brake lever cable casing end? I don't believe I have a need, I'm just trying to place the part.

Brake cable size, the step-down is just a little too large for the cable opening in the trigger.

BigChief 12-09-17 11:08 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20042525)
Brake cable size, the step-down is just a little too large for the cable opening in the trigger.

These are hard to find. Much nicer looking than the big rounded aluminum modern ones and correct for early 60s Raleighs. The ferrules I've seen on older 50s Raleighs were the same as these but shorter.


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