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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

MooneyBloke 08-09-23 12:19 PM

Nice Stan's factoid. A couple of days ago (8/7/23), my front with a Stan's plugged slow leak finally sprayed out a good bit of its tire spooge. It still got me home and held at 70PSI from 100PSI. I just reviewed my posts, and it's held up like this since 6/27/23. I suspect if I wasn't alternating with another bike and getting out daily, it might have failed earlier, but I'm surprised it did this well. Anyhow, I opened the guy up, patched the tube, stuck in a duck cloth boot with E6000, sewed it back together, and reglued it, and it seems not nearly as lumpy as I was fearing. I suspect with that other tire, I was just too hasty. I do want to add two obviously different colored fine pens to my repair kit for marking the stitch holes. It's way too easy to get a crooked tire if one messes up the stitching.

Addendum: I just rode that tire yesterday. If there is any lumpiness, I'm not feeling it. I think the main thing was alternating red and black marks on the stitch holes so I can match the zig-zag with the original holes when closing the tire. I was very surprised though that my boot didn't cause readily detectable lumpiness. E6000 is very flexible when dry, but duck cloth is a fairly heavy canvas, and I well expected the tire to be far less pliable at the point.

SJX426 08-09-23 12:58 PM

Picked up a pair of 30 and tried them out on the Pinarello
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...14296991_k.jpgVittoria G+ 30x28 a on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2b72c35_3k.jpgVittoria G+ 30x28 b on Flickr

Did not try to mount on the rear. Had to deflate to get it past the brake pads.

Likely to be applied to an older bike like the Bott or the Bianchi. Maybe Evern better, the Frejus should it ever be completed.

seagrade 08-09-23 01:40 PM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 22979276)
Picked up a pair of 30 and tried them out on the Pinarello

Did not try to mount on the rear. Had to deflate to get it past the brake pads.

Likely to be applied to an older bike like the Bott or the Bianchi. Maybe Evern better, the Frejus should it ever be completed.

I have a pair of 700x30 Pave CGs which fit on the front or rear of several different bicycles but not at both ends of the same bicycle. Variously stuck under the fork crown, stuck under the rear caliper but not the brake bridge, stuck against the seat tube but clear of rear brake and chainstays, or stuck between the chainstays…! Needless to say all bicycles that date back to when 30mm clearance was coincidental rather than by design…

MooneyBloke 08-10-23 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 22979276)
Picked up a pair of 30 and tried them out on the Pinarello

Lucky guy! I think 25mm are about as big as will fit cleanly in my Peter Mooneys.

spclark 08-10-23 01:39 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22980353)
Lucky guy! I think 25mm are about as big as will fit cleanly in my Peter Mooneys.

The Vittorias I've been riding since forever are 23's but they're old(ish), dating from about 2008 or '09 I think. So I bought a new pair of Challenge Stradas, just arrived:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b3cfcd4f6e.jpg

- and chosen to give little more 'flotation' when I encounter infrequent gravel on my routes, they're 27's.

Here's hoping they'll fit on both ends!


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e8e97b527c.jpg
999 front, brake for riding


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f7a7890d1f.jpg
999 rear, brake slacked

My Weimann 999's have QR cable slackers to open up a bit more clearance when wheels need to come off.

MooneyBloke 08-10-23 02:15 PM

Those center pulls have huge clearance though. My bikes are from 2000 and 2002 with Record and Chorus of that era. I can fit a 28mm only if I'm willing to risk anything stuck to the tire bashing into the brakes and frame. 25mms at least have some margin of safety here.

oneclick 08-11-23 03:26 AM


Originally Posted by spclark (Post 22980489)
My Weimann 999's have QR cable slackers to open up a bit more clearance when wheels need to come off.

Almost all centre-pulls have a "cable slacker".

Squeeze the pads together and take the straddle cable out of the yoke; that'll get them as wide as they'll ever go.

MooneyBloke 08-11-23 07:37 AM

I know this might not be exciting to some, but I quite like the new additions to my repair kit, here demonstrated on a piece of scrap carcass. Absent good marking, I find it way too easy to wind up with crooked stitching.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8dd52f6a0a.jpg

Road Fan 08-11-23 08:45 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22981044)
I know this might not be exciting to some, but I quite like the new additions to my repair kit, here demonstrated on a piece of scrap carcass. Absent good marking, I find it way too easy to wind up with crooked stitching.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8dd52f6a0a.jpg

This is a good idea - I do it, too!

MooneyBloke 08-11-23 09:00 AM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 22981116)
This is a good idea - I do it, too!

I wasn't sure those gel pens would work, but they do and very well. For my last real repair, I used a black rollerball and a red fine point Sharpie, but I found that felt tip pen had pretty much dried up, and I wanted to find something with maybe a bit more longevity. It didn't hurt that Staples had these on sale. In any case, these do a far better job than the crayons that came in the old Velox kits. I'll still use a regular Sharpie when marking the location of an injury or writing the date of a repair on the carcass.

Road Fan 08-11-23 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 22976998)
Huge fan of those G+ tires! The pair I put on new for last fall's Cycle Oregon - each found a goathead and got 2 oz Bontranger latex from the CO mechanics. Another 2 oz of Orange seal. Rode 'em yesterday and they were wonderful! Any pressure works. Mine are Rolls Royce 28s. Rode yesterday in the low 80s psi. ( need to sit down and total the mileage those tires have, It's not huge but well over 1000. (Half in the 7 days of CO alone.) I've done nothing but put sealant in twice and pump them.

Another plus - the ride! They roll nice. They grip. They inspire complete confidence. They are as straight and even as any tubular I have ever owned and that includes the silks used to race.

That's great to read! I just got a set of the Vittoria Corsa Control Graphene 30 mm tubulars, to go on the GP-4 rims on my repaired Mondonico (loyal fans of Road Fan's exploits will of course recall how your hero ran off the road into a rock filled culvert, requiring several frame tubes to be replaced, and opened up the option for a creative solution to front end geometry, ruining a nice Giro Pneumo but not my skull or the small amount of useful stuff inside it, and making the steering a lot faster than Antonio Mondonico made it!). I'm attaching them with Jantex tape this weekend, possibly today. I have a set of the clincher version in 28 mm on my other newer Mondonico, and they are a very nice ride!

Road Fan 08-11-23 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22981123)
I wasn't sure those gel pens would work, but they do and very well. For my last real repair, I used a black rollerball and a red fine point Sharpie, but I found that felt tip pen had pretty much dried up, and I wanted to find something with maybe a bit more longevity. It didn't hurt that Staples had these on sale. In any case, these do a far better job than the crayons that came in the old Velox kits. I'll still use a regular Sharpie when marking the location of an injury or writing the date of a repair on the carcass.

I think the old Velox crayons were for marking the location of the puncture or pinhole on the outside of the tire tread - at least with pinhole leaks due to tire casing wires, staples or such fine-guage crap, I always wanted to mark those locations so I could more easily find the point where the tube needs to be patched. I also sometimes used a fountain pen to mark the holes and line-ups.

The marking technique is good but I quit using it after a while. It's value is to help you see when your needle does not evenly follow the original holes in the two halfs of the tire, and the resulting "bent stitches" do not result in a bent tire, looking snaky and feeling bad on the road. I found I can achieve the same result by following the original thread holes, making sure the needle and thread are progressing precisely down the seam. A little more fiddly, but having learned it was important I decided since I had to do it, I could do it just by eye. Besides, if I recall, my little fiber markers had all been commandeered by the girlfriend for an art project and were in her classroom at school, and I wanted to get sewn up and riding, not go running out to the office store!!

MooneyBloke 08-11-23 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 22981252)
It's value is to help you see when your needle does not evenly follow the original holes in the two halfs of the tire, and the resulting "bent stitches" do not result in a bent tire, looking snaky and feeling bad on the road.

I do think that not nailing the original stitch locations can result in an unnecessarily lumpy tire though. Those are never fun.

spclark 08-11-23 05:30 PM

Tire Stikum vs Contact Cement?
 
So I have my two new Challenge Strada 27's to try once I get 'em glued securely to my half-century old MAVIC rims. (You need details, look me up in previous posts.)

Anybody ever tried using off-the-shelf contact cement – the stuff I've used decades before for adhering high pressure laminate (Formica, Pionite to name a couple brands)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81e2d936c2.jpg
Convenient but Maybe Not Good for Tires?

- to cabinet casework in an earlier life – as opposed to for-the-purpose (and unavailable locally; my LBS crew got a laff when I asked for another tube of Continental's blend this afternoon, told me I must be the only biker riding tubulars in the County anymore...) tire-to-aluminum rim cement?

Yes I can of course order up a can of the For-The-Purpose stuff on-line & pay shipping, but I thought I'd ask all the experts here whether This Other Stuff has ever been tried and maybe what came out of such a trial?

The stuff in that pic (I can buy tomorrow AM in town) is the same as what I linked to so I can avoid shipping and the inevitable delay if it's 'acceptable' as tire-to-rim cement.

(And I'm a BIG FAN of the color-coding principle behind getting tires stitched up nice & smooth; it's been a Few Years since I've had the pleasure, anything that simplifies the process & makes a predictably competent outcome pretty much inevitable is worth the effort... not unlike lacing up a fresh hub + spokes + rim combo :50:)

MooneyBloke 08-12-23 03:51 AM


Originally Posted by spclark (Post 22981717)
So I have my two new Challenge Strada 27's to try once I get 'em glued securely to my half-century old MAVIC rims. (You need details, look me up in previous posts.)

The keyword you use is securely. I would avoid cement not intended specifically for gluing sew-ups to rims. You really have no clear picture of the effect of the outgassing solvents upon the base tape to carcass bond. Rolling off a rim is an unpleasant prospect, but so is rolling off of base tape. Too bad about your LBS. One of the lead mechanics at my LBS sold me a box of Conti tubes at a 50% discount because I simply asked politely what sort of a deal he could give me on the whole thing. I had asked them to look for a can of Conti Al or Vitt Mastik One, but they had had no luck. I suspect it was a sympathy move, but I don't mind; at least I have my glue.

The only adventure I've taken with adhesives is to use E6000 to attach duck cloth boots to the interiors of damaged casings. I've found that latex tubes can sneak through amazingly small cuts, so I've glued in a small square boot on my last repairs, and so far those patches have held well. One did come out lumpy, but I failed to mark the casing, and I had opened it two other times (patch failed through the casing injury) before I did the boot, I suspect my final job was sloppy. Important note: I have not tried this with a major cut, so I've no idea how that would do, but the tire is basically shot in that case.

The other thing that helps on those times one needs to do a repair is a Speedy Stitcher awl. Mine is actually a knock-off brand I got at a local leather store, but it's proven itself well over the years. Trying to stick a heavy needle through a sew-up by hand is indeed an unpleasant affair, and an awl makes it reasonable to duplicate the machine zig-zag stitch many sew-ups have.

spclark 08-12-23 05:36 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22981998)
The other thing that helps on those times one needs to do a repair is a Speedy Stitcher awl.

Agreed! I have one too, dating from maybe 20 hears ago. Very useful tool, saves having to swear at bleeding fingers from doing much with needle & heavy thread.

As for rim cement, there are a couple of not so L BS's within an hour's drive of where I am. I'll check with them first, see if they have what I'd prefer to use over what I can buy off the shelf at the hardware store where I work.

I was wondering what use that E6000 might have for bike tires too, that's another product my store carries but from what its instructions suggest it may be too permanent for bike tires when time comes to do a repair or replacement.

MooneyBloke 08-12-23 06:56 AM

Out of curiosity, what's the too permanent product? My trials with E6000 were motivated by it being both stretchy and strong. For the boots I've glued with it, the hole was small, and the idea was to provide resistance to the latex tube sneaking through the hole, and I'm not sure how the boot would handle sheer. I do have a tire sitting in the dusty pile that has a more significant sidewall cut, but I really think that's probably best just forgotten about.

Last, what are you using as your thread? I'm using a heavy black synthetic thread from the same leather store where I bought my awl; it's thick enough to not go through the head of the smaller needle without a lot of help. I once had a tire fail explosively when I used the thread from the Velox kit, and that left me changing a tire in 93°F heat. I've heard people mention using dental floss for the job, and that really scares me. I've broken bones enough times in my life.

spclark 08-12-23 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22982047)
Out of curiosity, what's the too permanent product? My trials with E6000....

Yes, E6000. My resistance from nothing but reading the package instructions. But, like you, as I'm 74 I'm also quite resistant to the potential of breaking anything I need to keep moving.


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22982047)
Last, what are you using as your thread?

For sew-ups? Last time, back around 2008, what came with a Velox kit I had on hand. I honestly don't remember, may be riding on that tire now. If need be I have the spool of thread that came with my Speedee Stitcher, waxed linen I think it is, need to find where I can obtain a new repair kit just to be prepared.

By buying a pair of 27mm Stradas I hope to move the potential for tire mishaps more to my favor than with the decade+ tires I'm riding on now though they show no obvious signs of visible flaws.

I'm no racer, the longest ride I've done since getting my Grand Record back under me was just under 11 miles last w/e. There are challenging elevation changes where I live now, using Strava I keep track of my heart rate, and( with the approval of my cardiologist!) I find it relatively easy to reach 150 BPM for brief intervals going uphill. On the downhill stretches I resist the urge to let gravity do its best by gently checking my speed with the rear brake often.

Haven't been riding my Kona Dew+ much since getting my GR ride-able. It's about 12 lbs heavier which I can feel once I get on it after riding the lightweight road bike for recreation. I have a a complete pair of 700c clincher rims waiting for me once I can make arrangements to meet with another forum member fairly close-by. Haven't ridden clinchers since grade school days back in the mid-'60's but I expect the newer technology has made significant improvement in what I used back then. That way I can switch wheel sets back and forth depending on my mood and level of confidence.

Road Fan 08-12-23 08:18 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22981558)
I do think that not nailing the original stitch locations can result in an unnecessarily lumpy tire though. Those are never fun.

I did this on purpose once, many moons ago. It made a lumpy tire, enough that I could see it and feel it. I didn't like it, which is the only metric I actually had, and still the only one I have. I can't say I actually got all the stitches in perfectly. I know what I did stopped me from having to ride tires with a twist in them.

YMMV?

spclark 08-12-23 08:29 AM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 22982104)
I did this on purpose once, many moons ago. It made a lumpy tire, enough that I could see it and feel it. I didn't like it, which is the only metric I actually had, and still the only one I have. I can't say I actually got all the stitches in perfectly. I know what I did stopped me from having to ride tires with a twist in them.

YMMV?

Depends a great deal on your history of handling needle and thread. Smooth fabric is enough of a challenge to folks new to hand-stitching. Dealing with flexible, layered materials coated with more flexible stuff that's had stitches ripped out that need to be stitched back together again takes practice and confidence to do while sitting at a bench at home. Doing it along a roadside or bike path far from home shouldn't be one's first exposure to dealing with sew-ups; better to do a practice run or maybe two just to get the feel of working with the tools and materials.

I used to know of a place down in Florida (I think) where you could send tubular tires to be repaired for a small cost. Idea being save a few up until shipping made sense cost-wise then let a skilled pro see to doing a proper job of it. Google doesn't bring up anything that rings a bell now but your luck may be better than mine or you live closer to where a LBS exists with folks who can take on the task or guide you through the procedure.

DiabloScott 08-12-23 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22981558)
I do think that not nailing the original stitch locations can result in an unnecessarily lumpy tire though. Those are never fun.

Oh, it's worse than that - I'm really fortunate I don't get many flats.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...99c03984ee.jpg
Is it possible to do a worse job?

spclark 08-12-23 09:20 AM

What Brand of Tire?
 
In my admittedly limited experiences dealing with stitching up sew-up tires I've yet to encounter a tire with that kind of lock-stitch on the left.

I see it often on the birdseed bags my wife asks me to empty into the galvanized cans she stores it in; easy to open ("Just Pull This Tab") but nothing I'd ever attempt repairing by hand.

If you managed to get that done w/o holing the tube inside I commend you!

MooneyBloke 08-12-23 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by spclark (Post 22982140)
In my admittedly limited experiences dealing with stitching up sew-up tires I've yet to encounter a tire with that kind of lock-stitch on the left.

Conti used that stitch with their Triathlon and Sprinter tires back when I rode them.

BTW: that's not too hard with a stitching awl if you go very carefully which you should be doing
regardless of whether you're doing a lock stitch or zig-zag.

MooneyBloke 08-12-23 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22982126)

:twitchy: :eek: Keep far away from my tires if you please.

AdventureManCO 08-12-23 10:33 AM

Hey all, got a quick question.

I have a Tufo Challenge Elite tubby, and its got a small pinhole leak somewhere. When I stick it under water, the bubble slowly come up, but it is not enough to hear.

Is it worth it to try to use some sealant first, before ripping the tire off, ripping the casing off, undoing the stitching, and having at a patch? I've heard real mixed opinions sealant with tubulars. FWIW I cannot see the bubble coming out from the tread, they are coming out of the tire/rim interface. Tiny bubbles, mind you, but not sure if this tire might be a good candidate for the sealant first.

Thanks for all opinions!


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