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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gna 03-26-16 11:44 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18635867)
The washers go on the spoke nipples not the hub.

Huh?

noglider 03-27-16 12:31 AM

@Loose Chain, I feel the same way. These bikes don't fit my riding style for anything more than four or five miles. That's why I shipped mine to Florida for the one time a year we visit my mother in law.

Loose Chain 03-27-16 12:37 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18639005)
A thing to remember is that the handlebars on these older 3 speeds are 15/16" not 1". Now any 22.2 stem will fit the forks, but they will not fit your current bars without a shim. So, it would make sense to replace both the stem and bars at the same time. Those 15/16 Northroads look to be in great shape...another desirable part you have there. Personally, I would never consider replacing the seatpost with an alloy one. Battling stuck alloy posts are one of the things us 3 speeders don't have to deal with.

You guys are slowly convincing me to just leave the parts I have, which are all in excellent condition, in place. Save for the rims/wheels, I am going to service out the hubs one way or another and get the new rims installed with stainless spokes. Nothing makes as big an improvement in performance/feel than good wheels and knocking a few ounces of weight off a wheel is like taking pounds off the bike elsewhere. I think I will eventually get to flipping the bar upside down as well and a Brooks saddle of course.

My main reasons I would want to replace the seat post or stem is not just weight but to give me a little more cockpit space or reach. But the bike really feels fine and after riding the 23 inch Sports today I am ever more convinced the bike I have is good to go essentially as is.

I am now hundreds into my old 86ish Guerciotti SLX build and the little Raleigh Sports needs to vamoose from the work stand soon.

nlerner 03-27-16 07:12 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18639031)
Are there any vintage 3-speeds that a "sportier"/ different ride than Raleigh's Sports model? I know they made racing and geared bikes that might likely have different riding characteristics. Or are their more nimble frames all geared?

Browse the pre-1960 Raleigh catalogs at threespeedhub.com, and you'll see that pretty much all models had Sturmey Archer hubs! That includes Reynolds-tubed lightweights such as the Clubman, various Lentons, and the RRA.

markk900 03-27-16 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18639365)
My main reasons I would want to replace the seat post or stem is not just weight but to give me a little more cockpit space or reach. But the bike really feels fine and after riding the 23 inch Sports today I am ever more convinced the bike I have is good to go essentially as is.

I too found the cockpit a bit cramped when I got my first one (squint at my avatar), but you do get used to it.

Velocivixen 03-27-16 08:34 AM

@nlerner - OK, thanks. I find that I prefer a "sportier" feeling to my bikes than what I feel on a Sports. I sold mine yesterday to a woman who loves it. Silver isn't my favorite color either. I gave her & her husband a lesson on adjusting a SA AW hub and everything. For now my Twenty is my fun ride.

nlerner 03-27-16 09:08 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18639765)
@nlerner - OK, thanks. I find that I prefer a "sportier" feeling to my bikes than what I feel on a Sports. I sold mine yesterday to a woman who loves it. Silver isn't my favorite color either. I gave her & her husband a lesson on adjusting a SA AW hub and everything. For now my Twenty is my fun ride.

Alternatively to get that sportier feeling, you can convert a 70s (or any era) road bike to IGH. Here's my '69 SuperCourse with Sturmey Archer AM rear hub:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y...2/IMG_2790.JPG

markk900 03-27-16 09:43 AM

Beautiful Neal....I like that green even better than the usual bronze green of the sports.

Velocivixen 03-27-16 09:46 AM

@nlerner - gorgeous bike and great idea. I'm thinning the herd now but that's a good idea.

Loose Chain 03-27-16 12:25 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 18639685)
I too found the cockpit a bit cramped when I got my first one (squint at my avatar), but you do get used to it.

I think it is simply the design and intent of the bike. Though, still, and I know they built some, flipping the bars and having a stem with a little length to it would likely improve handling and riding position for many of us. But it feels pleasant enough for a short ride which is also probably the intent of these Sports (and this type of bike in general) that they were not meant for grueling and lengthy or fast commutes.

If as Sheldon says it is not recommended to stand on the pedals then I hardly see doing any hill attacks as being advisable either. I do recall as a teen meeting that top tube more than once in the wrong places.

Oiling the hub and minor adjustment and finally the bike snaps through all three gears correctly and quickly. I could not imagine the hub really needing serious repair or overhaul since the bike has no significant use on it apparently. So all I need are spokes and a lace up for my new CR18 wheels.

Cool, an English "Racer!"

BigChief 03-27-16 06:03 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18640301)
I think it is simply the design and intent of the bike. Though, still, and I know they built some, flipping the bars and having a stem with a little length to it would likely improve handling and riding position for many of us. But it feels pleasant enough for a short ride which is also probably the intent of these Sports (and this type of bike in general) that they were not meant for grueling and lengthy or fast commutes.

If as Sheldon says it is not recommended to stand on the pedals then I hardly see doing any hill attacks as being advisable either. I do recall as a teen meeting that top tube more than once in the wrong places.

Oiling the hub and minor adjustment and finally the bike snaps through all three gears correctly and quickly. I could not imagine the hub really needing serious repair or overhaul since the bike has no significant use on it apparently. So all I need are spokes and a lace up for my new CR18 wheels.

Cool, an English "Racer!"

I'm glad you're enjoying your old 3 speed. It has been a fun hobby of mine for many years. I'm not particularly limited to very short trips on mine. I am limited to flat country and slower speeds, but I love the feel or riding them and the challenge of wrenching them. To me, there will always be something special about this class of bike. A subtle charm that we are not likely to see ever again.

SirMike1983 03-27-16 07:08 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18639365)
You guys are slowly convincing me to just leave the parts I have, which are all in excellent condition, in place. Save for the rims/wheels, I am going to service out the hubs one way or another and get the new rims installed with stainless spokes. Nothing makes as big an improvement in performance/feel than good wheels and knocking a few ounces of weight off a wheel is like taking pounds off the bike elsewhere. I think I will eventually get to flipping the bar upside down as well and a Brooks saddle of course.

My main reasons I would want to replace the seat post or stem is not just weight but to give me a little more cockpit space or reach. But the bike really feels fine and after riding the 23 inch Sports today I am ever more convinced the bike I have is good to go essentially as is.

I am now hundreds into my old 86ish Guerciotti SLX build and the little Raleigh Sports needs to vamoose from the work stand soon.

These bikes often are good to go "as is", aside from fresh tires/tubes/brake pads. The Brooks saddles slide on the rails to set your reach. You can also "flip" the clamp so the seat sits behind the seat post.

I prefer the original Westrick rims over the CR-18s. I don't like the CR-18 profile, and they can be a pain for mounting or dismounting tires compared to the originals. The CR-18s do brake better, but Raleigh also made serrated sidewall Westricks in the 1970s, which brake pretty well with Kool Stop pads. If you're handy with a Dremel, you can mod some of the different the Kool Stop pads to fit the long, stock Raleigh holders as well.

Just about the best mod for a Raleigh Sports is a customized rear cog. That is one change I make to all of mine. But I really do like running a Raleigh Sports close to stock, with only minor changes. The design is old, but well contrived.

gna 03-27-16 08:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gna (Post 18629751)
Some 3 speed clamps for brake cables will have a little bump for routing wire. I can't find a picture and I'm too lazy to go out to the garage now.

Ok, I got a picture for you:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=512020

Loose Chain 03-27-16 09:34 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 18641191)

Thank you. I will keep a lookout for those and I add that to my wish list for my Raleigh ;). Along with the SA light bracket, Brooks saddle, pump peg and frame pump, proper saddle bag ---------------------- ! Oh, and some sort of coffee cup holder :).

Brian Mc 03-27-16 10:18 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18639031)
Are there any vintage 3-speeds that a "sportier"/ different ride than Raleigh's Sports model? I know they made racing and geared bikes that might likely have different riding characteristics. Or are their more nimble frames all geared?

The difference in responsiveness and acceleration between my '58 Sports and my '51 Lenton Tourist is astounding. The Lenton has a 531 straight frame, alloy rims, stem, bars and seatpost. The Lenton's mudflaps and chainguard did not survive, no doubt helping it's weight. They are both 21" bikes but to have two steel Raleigh 1950's vintage 3-speeds with such drastically different rides is a real joy.

tmac100 03-28-16 08:16 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18639594)
Browse the pre-1960 Raleigh catalogs at threespeedhub.com,.......

This website does not seem to be working - for me. I just got a bunch of text statements...

Anyone know if it is still in service?

tmac100 03-28-16 08:30 AM

Sorry duplicate post

Dan Burkhart 03-28-16 10:10 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18641306)
Thank you. I will keep a lookout for those and I add that to my wish list for my Raleigh

I sell clips like that, but they only work for 28.6 to 31.1mm tubes. They won't grab a 1" top tube, but they will work on the down tube.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=512120

oldroads 03-28-16 02:50 PM


Originally Posted by tmac100 (Post 18641981)
This website does not seem to be working - for me. I just got a bunch of text statements...

Anyone know if it is still in service?

I'm seeing the same error.

nlerner 03-28-16 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by tmac100 (Post 18641981)
This website does not seem to be working - for me. I just got a bunch of text statements...

Anyone know if it is still in service?

I contacted the web owner to alert him to the problem.

Salubrious 03-28-16 03:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18636934)

What are those large saddle satchels I see in many photos/

Is there a replacement seat post (alloy)?

Is there a replacement steering stem with greater offset?

Handlebars that are appropriate in alloy with more forward sweep?



J

Brooks and Carradice both make nice saddles bags which can be quite handy- especially if you plan a tea brewup enroute.

I have an alloy seatpost on my Superbe, also a Nitto Dirt-Drop stem and alloy bars, even Weinmann brake levers. I doubt any of this affect the speed I ride.



Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18639031)
Are there any vintage 3-speeds that a "sportier"/ different ride than Raleigh's Sports model? I know they made racing and geared bikes that might likely have different riding characteristics. Or are their more nimble frames all geared?

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=512168

Definately a sportier ride! Quick and nimble. 531 Cantiflex tubing with Diadrant fork to reduce road harshness due to the increase stiffness of the frame and the 27" wheels.



Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18640301)
If as Sheldon says it is not recommended to stand on the pedals then I hardly see doing any hill attacks as being advisable either. I do recall as a teen meeting that top tube more than once in the wrong places.

If the hub is set up right, no problem standing on it in either 1st or 2nd. Doing that in 3rd would give me some pause- and Sheldon does not recommend it. So you can do some serious pass storming if you are up to it.

A friend of mine and I were on the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour, ascending the Bay City Hill which is 2 1/2 miles long. We got passed by a peloton of carbon bike. Kelly was/is a monster on wheels- she was pretty much 'screw this', snapped it into 2nd, stood up on the pedals to get her momentum up and then passed the entire peloton on her 1958 Phillips, which easily weighs 40 pounds. She overheard one of the riders say 'looks like we've been passed'. Yes- you've been passed when the rider is on a plain steel 50 year old 3-speed... with baskets.

As has been proven many times, its more about the rider and not so much the bike.

Velocivixen 03-28-16 04:37 PM

@Salubrious - great looking bike there. I'm not familiar with that fork. Any online info on it? Do you have any close up photos of it online somewhere? I'd like to take a closer look.

Sounds like I'd like your friend, Kelly! Baskets and all. She's a strong rider.

I'm learning a lot about what I prefer in bike "feel". I'm in the market for another Twenty that I will keep with smaller sized wheels. I've got my feelers out but am not willing to pay a boatload for one. Lots on the 'bay are local pickup only. I'd have to arrange for someone on this forum to get it for me then ship. By the time I've paid shipping....well, you get the idea.

Loose Chain 03-28-16 07:05 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18643364)
Brooks and Carradice both make nice saddles bags which can be quite handy- especially if you plan a tea brewup enroute.

I have an alloy seatpost on my Superbe, also a Nitto Dirt-Drop stem and alloy bars, even Weinmann brake levers. I doubt any of this affect the speed I ride.




http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=512168

Definately a sportier ride! Quick and nimble. 531 Cantiflex tubing with Diadrant fork to reduce road harshness due to the increase stiffness of the frame and the 27" wheels.




If the hub is set up right, no problem standing on it in either 1st or 2nd. Doing that in 3rd would give me some pause- and Sheldon does not recommend it. So you can do some serious pass storming if you are up to it.

A friend of mine and I were on the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour, ascending the Bay City Hill which is 2 1/2 miles long. We got passed by a peloton of carbon bike. Kelly was/is a monster on wheels- she was pretty much 'screw this', snapped it into 2nd, stood up on the pedals to get her momentum up and then passed the entire peloton on her 1958 Phillips, which easily weighs 40 pounds. She overheard one of the riders say 'looks like we've been passed'. Yes- you've been passed when the rider is on a plain steel 50 year old 3-speed... with baskets.

As has been proven many times, its more about the rider and not so much the bike.


I want(ed) the alloy items to improve fit as well as reduce weight. As per my previous post I have decided to not alter the bike beyond adding the new aluminum rims at least for the time being.

Have you ever raced or ridden in a peloton? Part of it is about discipline, such as not breaking away to pass a lady on a 40 pound English 3 speed when perhaps there are still 50 miles to go and where possibly being one inch this way or that results in a pile of bodies and bikes. She may have been racing them but I seriously doubt they were racing her. If however she were to maintain a breakaway for 30 miles then they might have thought enough of having been passed to reel her in. Maybe it was the C group ;).

Okay, so I was 13ish or so, the race, about three miles of rural parish farm road around the lake winding back where we started, the challenger, 16yo neighbor Mike on a Schwinn middleweight. Me, on my three speed English Racer type, surely more fleet of wheel than the Schwinn you should think :). After weeks of having been dared, double dared, triple dog dared, the race was finally agreed to for once and all to settle the question, which was faster, me and my ER or Mike and the Schwinn. Well, see there was the hill, not much of a hill, but a hill nonetheless and at less than a half a mile to go, with the Schwinn hot on my tail I attacked the hill with my fullest fury to finally break my challenger. I felt strong, I felt fast as I came out of the saddle, I tasted victory, and then I recall my parts smashing into steel tubes and my head going down to the bar nearly and my foot falling from the pedal and, well, by the time I sorted it all out, the Schwinn was far ahead and well beyond even a super human effort.

The moral, I would rather be on my 20 pound 84 Pinarello Trevisio than a 40 pound English three speed when the need for serious speed is required, just saying :). And the story on it, while walking down the sidewalk in Houston, I came upon a little bike shop with a penchant for Italian machines. I saw it, out of the corner of my eye, stopping me dead in my tracks, it was blue, which is always true, it was pantographed from stem to stern and adorned with the forbidden fruit of Campagnolo and tires that were sewn up and glued to wheels of Ambrosia and it was the only one and it was on sale! It has never once let me down when in the heat of battle I stood on it, so bring on your three speed SA hub English demons, baskets and all, I triple dog dare you, lol, for it is my Sword of Excalibur ;).

Meanwhile back on planet earth, I have an appointment made for the next solar cycle to have my new CR18 wheels laced for the English Demon, uh, er, the Raleigh. And somewhere, well, Mike and the Scwhinn will await a rematch but it will not be in this life because he is long gone. Too many triple dog dares I guess it was. I will be on the other side of the horizon before I can excise that demon and set that memory to a final end.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...s9lwp8wmr.jpeg
J

Salubrious 03-28-16 08:33 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18643892)
Have you ever raced or ridden in a peloton? Part of it is about discipline, such as not breaking away to pass a lady on a 40 pound English 3 speed when perhaps there are still 50 miles to go and where possibly being one inch this way or that results in a pile of bodies and bikes. She may have been racing them but I seriously doubt they were racing her. If however she were to maintain a breakaway for 30 miles then they might have thought enough of having been passed to reel her in. Maybe it was the C group ;).

Okay, so I was 13ish or so, the race, about three miles of rural parish farm road around the lake winding back where we started, the challenger, 16yo neighbor Mike on a Schwinn middleweight. Me, on my three speed English Racer type, surely more fleet of wheel than the Schwinn you should think :). After weeks of having been dared, double dared, triple dog dared, the race was finally agreed to for once and all to settle the question, which was faster, me and my ER or Mike and the Schwinn. Well, see there was the hill, not much of a hill, but a hill nonetheless and at less than a half a mile to go, with the Schwinn hot on my tail I attacked the hill with my fullest fury to finally break my challenger. I felt strong, I felt fast as I came out of the saddle, I tasted victory, and then I recall my parts smashing into steel tubes and my head going down to the bar nearly and my foot falling from the pedal and, well, by the time I sorted it all out, the Schwinn was far ahead and well beyond even a super human effort.

The moral, I would rather be on my 20 pound 84 Pinarello Trevisio than a 40 pound English three speed when the need for serious speed is required, just saying :). And the story on it, while walking down the sidewalk in Houston, I came upon a little bike shop with a penchant for Italian machines. I saw it, out of the corner of my eye, stopping me dead in my tracks, it was blue, which is always true, it was pantographed from stem to stern and adorned with the forbidden fruit of Campagnolo and tires that were sewn up and glued to wheels of Ambrosia and it was the only one and it was on sale! It has never once let me down when in the heat of battle I stood on it, so bring on your three speed SA hub English demons, baskets and all, I triple dog dare you, lol, for it is my Sword of Excalibur ;).

Meanwhile back on planet earth, I have an appointment made for the next solar cycle to have my new CR18 wheels laced for the English Demon, uh, er, the Raleigh. And somewhere, well, Mike and the Scwhinn will await a rematch but it will not be in this life because he is long gone. Too many triple dog dares I guess it was. I will be on the other side of the horizon before I can excise that demon and set that memory to a final end.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...s9lwp8wmr.jpeg
J

That's right about the discipline thing, now that you mention it. I was with my girlfriend, who was pretty slow and I felt it a good idea to stay behind her, I think you might know how that goes.

But Kelly had no such constraint; "I'll see you at the top", gone. I ride with her a lot and it really does not matter what bike I'm on, she's a challenge for me to keep up. On that account I think she dropped them pretty fast. I'm sure they were amused- the Lake Pepin ride has about 130 riders, and we had just left the ice cream shop in Bay City, so there were a lot of us going up that hill (2 1/2 miles, it gets your attention, although FWIW its really the only serious hill if you stay on the roads looping the lake).

Loose Chain 03-28-16 08:55 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18644055)
That's right about the discipline thing, now that you mention it. I was with my girlfriend, who was pretty slow and I felt it a good idea to stay behind her, I think you might know how that goes.

But Kelly had no such constraint; "I'll see you at the top", gone. I ride with her a lot and it really does not matter what bike I'm on, she's a challenge for me to keep up. On that account I think she dropped them pretty fast. I'm sure they were amused- the Lake Pepin ride has about 130 riders, and we had just left the ice cream shop in Bay City, so there were a lot of us going up that hill (2 1/2 miles, it gets your attention, although FWIW its really the only serious hill if you stay on the roads looping the lake).

I was just jesting with you :). A few years back my wife and I did one of the 50 mile rides. I took the Pinarello and she on her pink Centurion. Towards the end of the ride I sprinted away from her passing a group of MAMILs on carbon (MAMILOC) who apparently did not take kindly to being passed by an antique steel bike. Well, I laid them waste for a few miles before deciding to await my wife so we could end together. They were all laughing as we pulled in as if they had vanquished the blue bike. Hardly, they were no daisy at all, not at all, but my wife was perhaps more important :) than a false victory. Of course it was more important for you to be with your gf :).

I love my new Raleigh, I will seek some PF Flyers to go with it. In the sixth grade, I guess it was chic at the time, my momma always got me white jeans and white PF flyers and square bottom (tuckless) button up shirts, so I have to get the ensemble together for a vintage outing, to be period correct.


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