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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

noglider 03-02-15 01:19 PM

Check the saddle placement. It may be too far forward or too far back for you.

Salubrious 03-02-15 01:40 PM


Originally Posted by tbo (Post 17597105)
Has anyone experienced knee pain when going from exclusively derailleur bikes for years to an SA AW 3 speed? On my derailleur bikes, I am much more a spinner than a masher. That's not so much an option on the AW.

It's currently 46 teeth in the front and 18 teeth in the back. Just ordered a 22t rear cog. Hopefully that will help.

I am missing anything obvious other than the cog swap out?

Most of the British bikes have 165mm crank arms- which is really good for spinning. But they also have that pesky 18t cog in the rear, which is not. 22t works very well for me, but that makes 3rd the 'main' gear with 1st and 2nd for climbing. The Brits didn't seem to think that way, but OTOH they *did* offer other cog sizes...

Noglider's comment about the seat position should not be ignored either! If I had to guess I would say your saddle is too far forward. You can flip the saddle mounting bracket around to allow the seat to be moved further back.

tbo 03-02-15 03:31 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17597238)
Most of the British bikes have 165mm crank arms- which is really good for spinning. But they also have that pesky 18t cog in the rear, which is not. 22t works very well for me, but that makes 3rd the 'main' gear with 1st and 2nd for climbing. The Brits didn't seem to think that way, but OTOH they *did* offer other cog sizes...

Noglider's comment about the seat position should not be ignored either! If I had to guess I would say your saddle is too far forward. You can flip the saddle mounting bracket around to allow the seat to be moved further back.

I checked the seat position according to the adage of knee pain front, raise the seat and knee pain back, lower the seat. In my case, I raised it about 2 -3 cm, because the pain is in the front. I haven't been able to do more than go around the block to check to make sure I wasn't hyperextending the knees. If I need to fine tune the seat front-to-back, I can do so easily because it is a newer single rail seat and they have a fair amount of front-to-back leeway built-in.

I'm glad to hear that the 165 mm crank length is considered a "spinner".

Thanks @noglider and @Salubrious. I appreciate it. BTW, was the 22t already on your hub or did you put it on? Just wondering if you had to change the chain.

Salubrious 03-02-15 04:16 PM

@tbo My chain got replaced as the old one had been rusted by riding the bike in icy/salty conditions. The 18t was on it when I got the bike- I replaced it because I wanted to be able to climb the Bay City Hill (which is 2 1/2 miles long) on the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour. That worked out pretty well :)

arex 03-02-15 04:24 PM

This gearing stuff is good to know. My town isn't especially hilly, but our subdivision is on the largest hill in the center of the valley...no matter which way I go, I'm going to be climbing a hill to get home.

michael k 03-02-15 04:26 PM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 17581256)
Yep. And maybe, like me, vintage lawn chairs. I re-web them when the sun has destroyed the webbing. Can't stand to see the aluminum frames junked when these are such perfect example of functional industrial design...

OT.... I went a slightly different route.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...psc69c85ac.jpg

arex 03-02-15 04:27 PM


Originally Posted by michael k (Post 17597643)
OT.... I went a slightly different route.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...psc69c85ac.jpg

That actually looks pretty sharp.

markk900 03-02-15 04:44 PM


Originally Posted by tbo (Post 17597105)
Has anyone experienced knee pain when going from exclusively derailleur bikes for years to an SA AW 3 speed?

I did and most of it went away when I switched to a 22T cog at the back. The swap is as you say a 5 minute affair, and I was able to use the same chain though watch that you don't get too close to the end of the dropout.

When I got the Humber the pain came back - it had a 48T front and came with an 18t rear.....22T on the back and things are OK again. Also not that I did a 25km ride on my IGH converted Trek (42/20 on 700C wheels) and had no knee pain at all (sore butt though), so you shouldn't have to get rid of your bike - just experiment with gearing.

PalmettoUpstate 03-02-15 05:43 PM


Originally Posted by michael k (Post 17597643)
OT.... I went a slightly different route.

THAT is really nice. Did you by chance formerly own a Tandy Leather store?

;v)

El Segundo 03-02-15 06:41 PM

7 Attachment(s)
A few years ago I bought a ratty '73 Raleigh Sports for $2.00. I disassembled the bike and trashed the unusable parts, fenders, chain guard, rims etc. and hung the frame in the shop. So this winter I needed a project and finally decided to refurbish the bike.

Started by building my first set of wheels using the Sun CR-18 rims and Wheelsmith spokes, wheel building turned out to be easier than anticipated and turned out very well. I was going to rattle can the frame but a local powder coating shop made what I think was a good price so i went that route, turned out pretty well.

Totally disassembled the AW hub and cleaned. Hub was in good shape inside not gummed up or corroded.

Bottom line I have ended up with more then $2.00 in the bike but it kept me busy and it rides great and will stay in the stable for a while.

Before:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436968http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436969http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436970

After:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436972http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436973http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436974http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436971

PalmettoUpstate 03-02-15 07:21 PM


Originally Posted by El Segundo (Post 17598006)
Bottom line I have ended up with more then $2.00 in the bike but it kept me busy and it rides great and will stay in the stable for a while.

Before:


After:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436974http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436971

Ha! You're hooked!

El Segundo 03-02-15 07:27 PM

Yeah been hooked for a while, got a Superbe I have been riding for about 10+ years. Wife has Hercules we bought new in 1971 right after we got married, still rides great and almost totally original. Something about the 3 speed bikes that just keep your interest.

michaelz28 03-02-15 09:35 PM


Originally Posted by El Segundo (Post 17598006)
A few years ago I bought a ratty '73 Raleigh Sports for $2.00. I disassembled the bike and trashed the unusable parts, fenders, chain guard, rims etc. and hung the frame in the shop. So this winter I needed a project and finally decided to refurbish the bike.

Started by building my first set of wheels using the Sun CR-18 rims and Wheelsmith spokes, wheel building turned out to be easier than anticipated and turned out very well. I was going to rattle can the frame but a local powder coating shop made what I think was a good price so i went that route, turned out pretty well.

Totally disassembled the AW hub and cleaned. Hub was in good shape inside not gummed up or corroded.

Bottom line I have ended up with more then $2.00 in the bike but it kept me busy and it rides great and will stay in the stable for a while.

Before:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436968http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436969http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436970

After:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436972http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436973http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436974http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436971

23 or 21? that seat post is up there ..

El Segundo 03-02-15 09:59 PM

It is a 21, a little small for me but will fit my two son-in-laws just fine when they visit. The seat post is long, about 350mm, so it has plenty of metal in the seat tube.

BigChief 03-02-15 10:03 PM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 17595207)
Anyone know where a [late 70's] Raleigh "Roadster" fits in the Nottingham firmament: https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bid/4909794169.html

Had they dropped the "Sports" model for that model?

And here's eye candy writ large: Vintage Royce Union Men's 3 Speed Bicycle 1962 Like New

Roadster is the name used for the 28" wheeled bikes with rod brakes. Google Raleigh DL 1. Lots of pics to see. I love those bikes.

tbo 03-03-15 06:51 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 17595207)
Anyone know where a [late 70's] Raleigh "Roadster" fits in the Nottingham firmament: https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bid/4909794169.html

Had they dropped the "Sports" model for that model?

And here's eye candy writ large: Vintage Royce Union Men's 3 Speed Bicycle 1962 Like New

Here is a link to a listing of the 1980's Raleigh firmament that lists the roadster. It seems to be under the sports.

While poking around that link a bit, I saw this quote in the 1960's ad for for the Superbe 26" concerning the "...Dynohub generator lighting - ideal for emergency lighting in your fall-out shelter" :eek:.

I guess you could put the bike on a stand and pedal your heart out to get the lights to work. But only if the Dyno is on the rear wheel on your specific bike. Or maybe put it on a bike-sized treadmill to get the front dyno working. Hmm. I'm thinking they really didn't think that claim through very much. But then again, fall-out shelters weren't such a great idea either.

Velocivixen 03-03-15 11:33 AM

@tbo - nice job on your bike. My '55 Phillips also came with 18 tooth cog and I easily switched to 22 tooth cog and am very happy with that change. The cog was around $4 and you can buy them online. Any one of us will tell you how to change it. Very easy.


@michaelz28 - FANTASTIC job on that bike. I've been wondering about changing my brakes out on the Phillips and I have those exact brakes - the Tektro R559 I could use. One reason I don't like riding the Phillips is the brake situation. It's all original, so didn't want to change anything but I may have to. Thoughts? Your bike is stunning.

El Segundo 03-03-15 12:10 PM

@michaelz28 - FANTASTIC job on that bike. I've been wondering about changing my brakes out on the Phillips and I have those exact brakes - the Tektro R559 I could use. One reason I don't like riding the Phillips is the brake situation. It's all original, so didn't want to change anything but I may have to. Thoughts? Your bike is stunning.[/QUOTE]
@Velocivixen - The difference in brake performance is impressive. Since I was not trying to stay original it was easy decision to upgrade. Brake levers on the original bike were pretty much an eye sore so I opted for a set of Shimano BL-R550 levers which came complete with cables and housings, about $21 from Niagara Cycle.

Thanks for the kind comments, this project was a lot of fun. Dropped the seat down some and going for a ride this afternoon.

Salubrious 03-03-15 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17599724)
I've been wondering about changing my brakes out on the Phillips and I have those exact brakes - the Tektro R559 I could use. One reason I don't like riding the Phillips is the brake situation. It's all original, so didn't want to change anything but I may have to. Thoughts?

I put the CR18s on my British 3 speeds so far as in all cases the original rims were too far gone to be salvageable. If you are going to do alloy, that's likely the best place to do it. But I run the stock brakes as I don't find them to be particularly lacking (although with the original pads they were terrible). The trick seemed to be to not set them up with the pads anywhere near the rim when the brake was not being used. This results in about 1/2" of travel on the brake levers before the pads engage the rim. But I found that by setting them up this way I got better braking action, and even in wet weather I really have yet to experience any issues- the bike stops easily and reliably.

It might be the simple fact that with the brake lever travel its easier to squeeze but I think its more than that- it might be that the brake lever offers a little more advantage set up this way as well. Of course this is all assuming you have modern brake pads and rims.

Although the Tektro is a nice bit of performance for the price, I just don't think, even with my use of modern rims and such, that I could get myself to put them on the bike, the older the bike the more of a problem I have with that. Part of it is just that the part is really easy to spot, and a giveaway that the bike is altered. The rims are a giveaway too, but IMO a little more subtle, and a good excuse is simply that the original rims were not serviceable (I made the mistake of getting really rusted rims polished and rechromed- it cost more than a new set of rims and I lost all the lettering and markings on the rims, which destroyed their value. So these days I just replace the rims if they are shot). I've yet to encounter brakes that are too far gone, although I have seen plenty of bad brake cables...

adventurepdx 03-03-15 02:16 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17600008)
Although the Tektro is a nice bit of performance for the price, I just don't think, even with my use of modern rims and such, that I could get myself to put them on the bike, the older the bike the more of a problem I have with that. Part of it is just that the part is really easy to spot, and a giveaway that the bike is altered.

I've got Tektro levers. After repainting my Raleigh, I gave up most pretenses of keeping the bike "authentic" looking; I just go more for functional and nice looking. (Same goes for the new SA bar-end shifter). And I really don't think it looks that out of place.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5593/...b14828ea7f.jpg

JohnDThompson 03-03-15 02:32 PM


Originally Posted by tbo (Post 17599032)
While poking around that link a bit, I saw this quote in the 1960's ad for for the Superbe 26" concerning the "...Dynohub generator lighting - ideal for emergency lighting in your fall-out shelter" :eek:.

I guess you could put the bike on a stand and pedal your heart out to get the lights to work. But only if the Dyno is on the rear wheel on your specific bike. Or maybe put it on a bike-sized treadmill to get the front dyno working. Hmm. I'm thinking they really didn't think that claim through very much. But then again, fall-out shelters weren't such a great idea either.

Hook it up to a wind turbine:

Projects

teaboy 03-03-15 03:05 PM

The leavers look realy smart not sure if I can get them to fit my raliegh module 3 but I am definately going for the shifter

Velocivixen 03-03-15 03:33 PM

@Salubrious - I built some CR18 rims/ wheels so it's new with Kool Stop Continental pads.
@adventurepdx- I have a set of those Tektro FL 750 levers.

Basically ly I would not ride the bike fast the way the brakes are now. No confidence in it.

Also so the floating headset sucks. Don't know the measurements for a new one.

noglider 03-03-15 04:04 PM

Agreed: With the original calipers, leverage is low, so you are safe to adjust them very loose, and your hands stand a chance of squeezing the levers hard enough. The recent comments reminded me that I have unusually strong fingers, which is why I find the brakes to be more than adequate. If your fingers aren't long and strong, you might do well to put dual-pivots on these bikes. It would be a very easy job.

Salubrious 03-03-15 04:26 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17600423)
@Salubrious - I built some CR18 rims/ wheels so it's new with Kool Stop Continental pads.
@adventurepdx- I have a set of those Tektro FL 750 levers.

Basically ly I would not ride the bike fast the way the brakes are now. No confidence in it.

Also so the floating headset sucks. Don't know the measurements for a new one.

@Velocivixen: Could it be a hand-strength thing? I ride a MotoGuzzi, which often got criticized for a clutch lever that was hard to operate- but I never noticed it.

Certainly if putting more powerful brakes on it means riding confidence by all means do so!

What is the issue with the headset??


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