Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

nlerner 06-06-16 03:48 PM

So the DL-1 I picked up on Friday presented a bit of a mystery: It had shifter triggers mounted on both sides of the bars, and a shift cable guide near the bottom of the seat tube for a left-side trigger. On the recommendation of a friend, I tried pushing a rod into the left-side of the rear hub axle, but nothing would give. Then, I tried a threaded indicator, but didn't find any threading. Well, I pulled it apart today and discovered that the internals are indeed of an S5, version 1. The gears were just really gummed up, and a good spritz of WD-40 seems to have freed things up:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-w...0/IMG_0393.JPG

I'm cleaning the rest of the hub parts in the ultrasonic, so let's hope it all works as intended once re-assembled.

gster 06-06-16 04:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Rough and Ready Robin Hood
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525732

BigChief 06-06-16 04:48 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18825304)
So the DL-1 I picked up on Friday presented a bit of a mystery: It had shifter triggers mounted on both sides of the bars, and a shift cable guide near the bottom of the seat tube for a left-side trigger. On the recommendation of a friend, I tried pushing a rod into the left-side of the rear hub axle, but nothing would give. Then, I tried a threaded indicator, but didn't find any threading. Well, I pulled it apart today and discovered that the internals are indeed of an S5, version 1. The gears were just really gummed up, and a good spritz of WD-40 seems to have freed things up:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-w...0/IMG_0393.JPG

I'm cleaning the rest of the hub parts in the ultrasonic, so let's hope it all works as intended once re-assembled.

That is fantastic! I think an S5 would be perfect on a roadster. I've seen some S5 left side indicator pins for sale on the bay, but finding a Sturmey Archer bell crank might be difficult. I was thinking that it could be possible to turn a Raleigh axle nut down on a lathe, drill and press fit it into one of those easy to find Shinano bell cranks. There's no torque on the bell crank. It stays loose on the axle.

noglider 06-06-16 06:22 PM

Amazing to discover a 5-speed that way.

nlerner 06-06-16 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18825431)
That is fantastic! I think an S5 would be perfect on a roadster. I've seen some S5 left side indicator pins for sale on the bay, but finding a Sturmey Archer bell crank might be difficult. I was thinking that it could be possible to turn a Raleigh axle nut down on a lathe, drill and press fit it into one of those easy to find Shinano bell cranks. There's no torque on the bell crank. It stays loose on the axle.

Thanks! I actually have an S-A bell crank in the bin. I think I bought it from Mark Stonich when I was keen to convert an FW to 5-speed (which I did, but ended up with a second set of parts to do that). I also have a Shimano bell crank if I want to experiment with re-tapping.

3speedslow 06-06-16 07:23 PM

@gster That is a super cool Robin Hood!

BigChief 06-06-16 07:42 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18825600)
Thanks! I actually have an S-A bell crank in the bin. I think I bought it from Mark Stonich when I was keen to convert an FW to 5-speed (which I did, but ended up with a second set of parts to do that). I also have a Shimano bell crank if I want to experiment with re-tapping.

This is going to be a fun project to follow. An S5 equipped roadster has been a daydream of mine since I bought my Sprite. Must be 20 years since I found my DL-1 and I'd love to find one like yours that needed some work. I'll keep lookin.

gna 06-06-16 09:04 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18825304)
So the DL-1 I picked up on Friday presented a bit of a mystery: It had shifter triggers mounted on both sides of the bars, and a shift cable guide near the bottom of the seat tube for a left-side trigger. On the recommendation of a friend, I tried pushing a rod into the left-side of the rear hub axle, but nothing would give. Then, I tried a threaded indicator, but didn't find any threading. Well, I pulled it apart today and discovered that the internals are indeed of an S5, version 1.

An S5 version 1? Do you mean an S5, with a bellcrank, or an S5.1, with two indicators? Other posts are mentioning bellcranks, but I'm confused.

Anyway, nice score. I have an S5 I built up into a CR18 on my Sports, and it's a great hub when you get the left side dialed in. I have a 21t cog, so I have 38-45-57-72-85 as my gear range. It's pretty nice.

Narsinha 06-07-16 03:49 AM

^ Line seed oil is a very good means to conserve the Patina, and still make it look very nice. It dries over time, so after polishing it will not soil your clothes.

If you really want to conserve iron or steel, and even make it paintable, there is nothing like microchrystalline waxes. In Germany I use 'Kadosin', but it is meanwhile hard to come by – like all good working things.
I have written a lengthy paper about how it works and how to apply, so if anyone is interested? Would have to translate it though, all in german ;)

Have got two domed nuts for the rear axle, but certainly not the original ones with the "R". Unbelievable what prices those nuts fetch theses days. Maybe someone should start production of such nuts..

Anyway i hope the "clonk" will be gone when i assemble all. Chain and chainwheels are aligned, tension is ok if a bit slack, but then i heard it should better be that way. If it still produces those sounds i will have to disassemble the rear hub once more. Arrgh.

Next site: Headset. Has too much play ..

BigChief 06-07-16 04:08 AM

I guess I should have said left side push rod instead of indicator pin. Version 1 means bell crank to me. Never had any experience with pull type selector S5s (S5.1) I've heard they aren't as reliable as the bell crank version, but I don't really know if that reputation is deserved. I have no complaints about the S5 on my Sprite. Although I did replace the original top tube shifters with handle bar mounted trigger and friction controls.

tcs 06-07-16 06:32 AM


Never had any experience with pull type selector S5s (S5.1) I've heard they aren't as reliable as the bell crank version, but I don't really know if that reputation is deserved.
I've read from numerous authoritative sources that the dual indicator chain version isn't reliable, but back in the day I rode my S5/2 thousands of miles touring and commuting (including five century rides) with no issues.

gster 06-07-16 07:19 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 18825712)
@gster That is a super cool Robin Hood!

An interesting project for someone other than me....

gster 06-07-16 07:27 AM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18826256)
^ Line seed oil is a very good means to conserve the Patina, and still make it look very nice. It dries over time, so after polishing it will not soil your clothes.

If you really want to conserve iron or steel, and even make it paintable, there is nothing like microchrystalline waxes. In Germany I use 'Kadosin', but it is meanwhile hard to come by – like all good working things.
I have written a lengthy paper about how it works and how to apply, so if anyone is interested? Would have to translate it though, all in german ;)

Have got two domed nuts for the rear axle, but certainly not the original ones with the "R". Unbelievable what prices those nuts fetch theses days. Maybe someone should start production of such nuts..

Anyway i hope the "clonk" will be gone when i assemble all. Chain and chainwheels are aligned, tension is ok if a bit slack, but then i heard it should better be that way. If it still produces those sounds i will have to disassemble the rear hub once more. Arrgh.

Next site: Headset. Has too much play ..

You're right. You don't want the chain super tight, there should be a little "play" in it.

BigChief 06-07-16 08:00 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18826537)
An interesting project for someone other than me....

If that were near me I'd be tempted. It's an earlier one from the 50s, it's a tall frame and the paint and transfers look to be in good condition. The only things that look ratty are the fenders and chain guard. I'd have to confirm with research, but I think original fenders on these bikes would be the usual single stay wires. If true, that would make all three suspect and worthy of replacing. I can see this bike with off white fenders and chainguard. I guess I'm itching for a new project.

gster 06-07-16 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18826644)
If that were near me I'd be tempted. It's an earlier one from the 50s, it's a tall frame and the paint and transfers look to be in good condition. The only things that look ratty are the fenders and chain guard. I'd have to confirm with research, but I think original fenders on these bikes would be the usual single stay wires. If true, that would make all three suspect and worthy of replacing. I can see this bike with off white fenders and chainguard. I guess I'm itching for a new project.

The owners are looking for someone just like you! I don't think there's much $$ involved except shipping.

3speedslow 06-07-16 08:44 AM

If I was closer...

gster 06-07-16 02:13 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 18826763)
If I was closer...

Even being an hour away for me I'm not that interested....

gster 06-07-16 06:40 PM

The Anatomy of a Bicycle Tyre
I picked up an old Norman Ladies' frame recently and the front wheel/tire was on odd size, 26" x 1 1/4".
https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0500.jpg?w=680https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0507.jpg?w=680

The tire itself was an old Dunlop Champion and completely shot. I wanted to keep the inner tube as I find old tubes hold air better than the new ones.I tried to remove the tire with the regular tire irons but found it would not budge. Closer examination revealed a metal wire bead.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0499.jpg?w=680https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0505.jpg?w=680
I cut the bead with bolt cutters and got it off.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0501.jpg?w=680
Dhttps://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0503.jpg?w=680
26 x 1 1/4
.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0504.jpg?w=680
Hard to see but says "Inflate Hard".I suspect that this was an expensive racing tire.

nlerner 06-07-16 06:58 PM

Is that wheel 26 x 1 1/4" / EA1 / 597mm? If so, that was a popular pre-war English size but also lingered into the 1960s. Also, taken up by Schwinn as S-6 and labeled 26 x 1 3/8"!

gster 06-07-16 07:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18828361)
Is that wheel 26 x 1 1/4" / EA1 / 597mm? If so, that was a popular pre-war English size but also lingered into the 1960s. Also, taken up by Schwinn as S-6 and labeled 26 x 1 3/8"!

Here's the rim. EA1!
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=526044

tbo 06-08-16 08:53 AM

I have had an 1980 Raleigh Sports that is used as a secondary bike for about a year. This is hardly the epitome of British craftmanship by this era. The tool dies were old, labor problems, etc. But...this bike is the quietest bike I've ever heard. I just put new tires on it and it is the smoothest thing going down the road. No rattles (except for the darn bell which I tighten down to non-operational state.) Much quieter than my modern hybrid. Considering all the sheet metal from the fenders and the chain guard, this thing could be a rattle-trap. But it really isn't.

I've done some basic things to the bike, like repack new BB bearings, new crank and pedals and cotters, built up a new AL front rim on the existing hub and spokes, modern front brakes, and a 22t rear cog because of knee pain. All in, I've spent $250 or so for the bike and repair parts. This beats ANY modern bike for that much money and shouldn't cost any more in maintenance going forward than a modern bike. Probably a lot less.

This thing is a tank. It's heavy and somewhat slow. It's a bit ugly in the paint department. It still amazes me every time I get on it.

3speedslow 06-08-16 09:02 AM

^^ we know the feeling!

w1gfh 06-08-16 10:03 AM

^^ When you see all the Public, Pashley, Flying Pidgeon and other clone bikes being marketed, it may seem as if used, vintage Raleighs are a best kept secret.

artclone 06-08-16 05:55 PM

^^ I, too, am amazed at just how solid, smooth, and quiet my Superbe is. And it's a joy to work on - - everything is tough and simple and just works.

tbo 06-09-16 06:52 AM

Full disclosure: The $250 number was to get the bike operational to an acceptable state. I have spent more than that on the bike, but it is money that I would have spent on any bicycle that I actually want to ride.

Things like:
* new seat - a requirement for any bike of mine due to bicycle seat neuropathy. Center cut-out. Hardly "authentic", but not an option. $35
* extra bracket for existing USB headlight. The extra bracket costs $15, the light costs $65 (already had it)
* Topeak-specific rack to fit existing bag. $50

These add up to an even $100.

What do you need on your 3-speeds to make them rideable / usable for you?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:26 PM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.