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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 05-21-19 06:50 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20941370)
Old English roadsters have been a hobby of mine for many years. Yours is a good one. Well worth the effort. I know it's in rough shape, but that's part of the fun. I generally wire brush loose rust off and give the insides of the mudguards a fresh coat of enamel paint. Here's my latest project bike. A Raleigh made Rudge hub date 1951. And what the front mudguard looked like when I first got it.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f55e27b456.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe92836a96.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a8ab40bcb6.jpg

That's a major commitment.
Glad you're back.

horatio 05-21-19 07:20 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20941370)
Old English roadsters have been a hobby of mine for many years. Yours is a good one. Well worth the effort. I know it's in rough shape, but that's part of the fun. I generally wire brush loose rust off and give the insides of the mudguards a fresh coat of enamel paint. Here's my latest project bike. A Raleigh made Rudge hub date 1951. And what the front mudguard looked like when I first got it.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f55e27b456.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe92836a96.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a8ab40bcb6.jpg

Sweet-looking bike. Now I have an example to emulate! Did you paint just the fenders/mudguards, or the whole bike? The paint on mine is not too bad, except along the top tube where the extra shifter is mounted.

One puzzling thing about my bike is the mounted headlight with no dyno hub. Maybe the original owner can clear things up whenever I get around to emailing him.

Ordered some parts today, including the indicator pin and an axle nut. Hopefully the IGH is in decent condition.

BigChief 05-21-19 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by horatio (Post 20941422)
Sweet-looking bike. Now I have an example to emulate! Did you paint just the fenders/mudguards, or the whole bike? The paint on mine is not too bad, except along the top tube where the extra shifter is mounted.

One puzzling thing about my bike is the mounted headlight with no dyno hub. Maybe the original owner can clear things up whenever I get around to emailing him.

Ordered some parts today, including the indicator pin and an axle nut. Hopefully the IGH is in decent condition.

I generally preserve as much of the original paint as I can. Many times the old enamel only dulls a few microns on the surface and polishing compound will restore quite a bit of the lost gloss. Other times the oxidation is too deep and polishing won't make much of a difference. What I did with this mudguard was removed loose rust with a knife and wire brush, trimmed off a half inch of unsalvageable steel , reinforced the lower 4 inches where the steel was thinned from rust with JB Weld on the underside, painted the underside, touched up rusted areas on the primary surface with an artists brush and black Rustoleum. I let this dry a week and then polished the whole mudguard to blend the repair in. On this bike I chose not to smooth the pitting on the steel. You can use the paint as a filler, but then it requires wet sanding and I didn't want to disturb any more of the original finish. So, as you can see in the picture, you can see the repair, but it doesn't jump out at you because the gloss was evened out by compounding. I don't mind the scars of use and age, I just want to remove red rust and protect the steel. So the only repainted areas on the mudguard are the underside and the lower 4 or so inches where the paint was gone and rusting set in. This bike did gloss up nicely from the polishing.

gster 05-22-19 05:04 AM

They're Still Out There
Vintage Norman
Seller says
18" frame w/ 24" wheels (they look 26" to me...)
$100.00...
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6a6b0f7601.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...da877dd3d9.jpg

BigChief 05-22-19 06:47 AM

That's in amazing condition. Looks like somebody kept it in their living room all these years. I think Norman was one of the factories TI closed down after the consolidation in 1960.

dweenk 05-22-19 01:34 PM

S/A shifter issue
 
I have a 1969 Armstrong with an AW hub and what I think is the original shifter. I've been messing around with it since I cleaned it up. The problem I have is that the shifter is reluctant to go from "N" to "3". Sometimes it shifts properly, and sometimes you have to wiggle the lever or force it into high. It always shifts down properly to "N" and "1". Just an hour ago I applied a liberal dose of Tri-Flo into the mechanism and took it for a couple of test rides. It may be marginally better, but not good enough yet.

I am using the original cable housings and new stainless steel internals for both brakes and shifter.

Comments?

gna 05-22-19 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20942684)
I have a 1969 Armstrong with an AW hub and what I think is the original shifter. I've been messing around with it since I cleaned it up. The problem I have is that the shifter is reluctant to go from "N" to "3". Sometimes it shifts properly, and sometimes you have to wiggle the lever or force it into high. It always shifts down properly to "N" and "1". Just an hour ago I applied a liberal dose of Tri-Flo into the mechanism and took it for a couple of test rides. It may be marginally better, but not good enough yet.

I am using the original cable housings and new stainless steel internals for both brakes and shifter.

Comments?

My experience, it's usually the cable. There's too much friction, I'm guessing. It could be the trigger or the indicator chain, but how is the shift cable routed?
The best shifting I have is with a metal cable guide pulley; the worst, cable housed all the way to the hub.

BigChief 05-22-19 05:09 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 20942852)
My experience, it's usually the cable. There's too much friction, I'm guessing. It could be the trigger or the indicator chain, but how is the shift cable routed?
The best shifting I have is with a metal cable guide pulley; the worst, cable housed all the way to the hub.

I agree. The clutch spring isn't very strong so the less friction you have from the cable, the better. That's why SA came up with the open cable/ guide wheel method. Even if the long housing to cable stop on the chain stay works, it always feels mushy to me.
You could also take the hub apart and stretch the clutch spring out some.

clubman 05-22-19 05:18 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20941837)
They're Still Out There
Vintage Norman
Seller says
18" frame w/ 24" wheels (they look 26" to me...)
$100.00...
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6a6b0f7601.jpg

I've always liked the big Birmingham chain guards but it's a little overwhelming stuffed into this (possible) junior frame. Looks like the jumbo Lucas King of the Road light set. Nice little bike! Raleigh made models with 24" wheels around 1960 this could be similar. See how close to the ground the mudguards are?

gster 05-22-19 06:35 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20942982)
I've always liked the big Birmingham chain guards but it's a little overwhelming stuffed into this (possible) junior frame. Looks like the jumbo Lucas King of the Road light set. Nice little bike! Raleigh made models with 24" wheels around 1960 this could be similar. See how close to the ground the mudguards are?

It's deceptive.
The proportions are so nice.
I hope that someone who appreciates it will buy it.

gster 05-22-19 07:15 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20942684)
I have a 1969 Armstrong with an AW hub and what I think is the original shifter. I've been messing around with it since I cleaned it up. The problem I have is that the shifter is reluctant to go from "N" to "3". Sometimes it shifts properly, and sometimes you have to wiggle the lever or force it into high. It always shifts down properly to "N" and "1". Just an hour ago I applied a liberal dose of Tri-Flo into the mechanism and took it for a couple of test rides. It may be marginally better, but not good enough yet.

I am using the original cable housings and new stainless steel internals for both brakes and shifter.

Comments?

All of my bikes (current and past) have specific "personalities" with regards to the shifting.
Some snap sharply into place while others are more subtle...
The relationship between the trigger, cable and hub
is another trinity.
Any problems are usually traced to the cable.
Sometimes a small kink or some frayed wires.
I agree that the open cable/pulley system is best.
I also like the look better.
On my new (1954) bike I have the same issue.
It does not snap back to 3 but I haven't had a chance to
investigate. It looks like the original cable.
Also, the hub when spinning, is almost silent.
I don't hear that "Tickety Tick" sound.
It seems to work just fine.

gster 05-22-19 07:18 PM

Trash Talk
Picked up this am.
Canadian built
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d383968c8e.jpg

thumpism 05-23-19 05:43 AM

It's French but it has a Sturmey. Nice little 27" wheel bike.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...894666690.html

Silver Lilac 70s Vintage Motobecane Nobly Bicycle - $50 (Bon Air)

bicycle frame material: aluminum
bicycle type: cruiser
frame size: 54 cm
wheel size: other/unknown

Needs a tuning and shining up but she could be so pretty! The color is unusual and amazing.

paulb_in_bkln 05-23-19 06:31 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20942684)
I have a 1969 Armstrong with an AW hub and what I think is the original shifter. I've been messing around with it since I cleaned it up. The problem I have is that the shifter is reluctant to go from "N" to "3". Sometimes it shifts properly, and sometimes you have to wiggle the lever or force it into high. It always shifts down properly to "N" and "1". Just an hour ago I applied a liberal dose of Tri-Flo into the mechanism and took it for a couple of test rides. It may be marginally better, but not good enough yet.

I am using the original cable housings and new stainless steel internals for both brakes and shifter.

Comments?

If you disconnect the shift cable does the lever bind? If so maybe you want to spray it full with something more aggressive than Triflow. Also like everyone says make sure the cable moves freely inside its housing.

dweenk 05-23-19 10:34 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 20942852)
My experience, it's usually the cable. There's too much friction, I'm guessing. It could be the trigger or the indicator chain, but how is the shift cable routed?
The best shifting I have is with a metal cable guide pulley; the worst, cable housed all the way to the hub.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20942971)
I agree. The clutch spring isn't very strong so the less friction you have from the cable, the better. That's why SA came up with the open cable/ guide wheel method. Even if the long housing to cable stop on the chain stay works, it always feels mushy to me.
You could also take the hub apart and stretch the clutch spring out some.


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20943116)
All of my bikes (current and past) have specific "personalities" with regards to the shifting.
Some snap sharply into place while others are more subtle...
The relationship between the trigger, cable and hub
is another trinity.
Any problems are usually traced to the cable.
Sometimes a small kink or some frayed wires.
I agree that the open cable/pulley system is best.
I also like the look better.
On my new (1954) bike I have the same issue.
It does not snap back to 3 but I haven't had a chance to
investigate. It looks like the original cable.
Also, the hub when spinning, is almost silent.
I don't hear that "Tickety Tick" sound.
It seems to work just fine.

The Armstrong has an open pulley shift cable, and new inner cables (shift & brake) in the original housings. It really feels like the trigger is hanging up. When it doesn't snap into 3rd from "N", I can barely force it there. Most of the time wiggling the trigger up and down allows it to go into position.

dweenk 05-23-19 10:40 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20943571)
If you disconnect the shift cable does the lever bind? If so maybe you want to spray it full with something more aggressive than Triflow. Also like everyone says make sure the cable moves freely inside its housing.

I'll get to that this afternoon and let you know.

gna 05-23-19 11:39 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20943977)
The Armstrong has an open pulley shift cable, and new inner cables (shift & brake) in the original housings. It really feels like the trigger is hanging up. When it doesn't snap into 3rd from "N", I can barely force it there. Most of the time wiggling the trigger up and down allows it to go into position.

Try another trigger, then. You can clean/lube them, too, but trade it out and see if it solves the problem.

dweenk 05-23-19 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 20944120)
Try another trigger, then. You can clean/lube them, too, but trade it out and see if it solves the problem.

Going through my stash after reading this, but taking one more test ride first.

BigChief 05-23-19 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20943977)
The Armstrong has an open pulley shift cable, and new inner cables (shift & brake) in the original housings. It really feels like the trigger is hanging up. When it doesn't snap into 3rd from "N", I can barely force it there. Most of the time wiggling the trigger up and down allows it to go into position.

Hmmm...that is unusual. The only other non cable things I can think of are: the trigger case is bent not allowing the hardened plate to move freely. Or maybe the pin that runs through the hardened plate into the case sides is rusty causing binding. Might be worthwhile to soak the assembly in Evaporust overnight or in vinegar for a couple of days. Or if you have the hub apart check the the key isn't binding in he axle slot. It wouldn't hurt to give the clutch spring some stretch. I'm sure it has taken on some set over the years. Especially if it was stored with the shifter in low or normal position for a long time.

3speedslow 05-23-19 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20943122)
Trash Talk
Picked up this am.
Canadian built
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d383968c8e.jpg

Nice! What model is it! So lucky you all can find these gems beside the road.

Ballenxj 05-23-19 06:42 PM

1967 Raleigh Rodeo 3+2
 
I posted this in for sale, but I figure you guys might want to look at this one. ;)
https://www.bikeforums.net/20944741-post50871.html

gster 05-23-19 07:28 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 20944616)
Nice! What model is it! So lucky you all can find these gems beside the road.

Not sure.
Mid 70's
Canadian made (assembled?)
Sports?

gster 05-24-19 04:38 AM

A 1967 Raleigh built Super Cycle for $100.00
Toronto Kijiji
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3a5d88243f.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...21f6195590.jpg

sd5782 05-24-19 05:40 AM

Couple very interesting locals for sale
 
Very interesting rare looking Raleighs. First is one claimed to be 1961 with an IGH and also a derailleur. A mix of parts and maybe all doesn't add up, but the price seems reasonable for what is there.

https://toledo.craigslist.org/bik/d/...895914139.html

Of more interest is this 5 speed Sprite with the IGH and twin shifters. I of course know next to nothing about either of these but thought others may enjoy. I would seriously be interested in the green Sprite except didn't want the whole bunch. It does appear to be mint.

https://toledo.craigslist.org/bik/d/...894287042.html

dweenk 05-24-19 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20944243)
Hmmm...that is unusual. The only other non cable things I can think of are: the trigger case is bent not allowing the hardened plate to move freely. Or maybe the pin that runs through the hardened plate into the case sides is rusty causing binding. Might be worthwhile to soak the assembly in Evaporust overnight or in vinegar for a couple of days. Or if you have the hub apart check the the key isn't binding in he axle slot. It wouldn't hurt to give the clutch spring some stretch. I'm sure it has taken on some set over the years. Especially if it was stored with the shifter in low or normal position for a long time.

Late yesterday I swapped out the shifter and that fixed it. I'm going to drop the original in Evaporust to see if I can get it going.


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