Wheel size compatibility question
 

I have a (700c) Surly LHT 3 x 9 (non-disc) and Surly's website says that they are spaced 100 in front and 135 in back.

I want a second set of wheels on which to mount studded tires.

Question is, how universal is that spec? I am seeing wheels with those dimensions on eBay, but with 7 speed cassette. Can I remove the cassette and freehub body, and replace with 9-speed versions? Or would an older 7 speed 135 be wider in the "spoke hub to spoke hub" dimension? And if that's the case, what kind of wheel am I looking for? Would 8 speed be good enough? 9 speed and up? Or only exactly 9 speed?

Thanks for any helpful responses!

Tires are 700 x 30.

I do understand the difference between the two. Just not sure how you could visually tell the difference between a 7 sp freehub and freewheel if the cassette/cogs are still on. I watched a video on upgrading the freehub body ( ) which left me uncertain about the compatibility between 7 sp freehub and 8,9,10,11 sp ones. Looks like there is a different size freehub body, hence my original question, probably poorly phrased. If one were to take a 135mm wheel which had a 7 speed freehub, and one removed that freehub and installed one that's compatible with 9 sp cassette, does that make the wheel no longer 135mm?

Here's the best pic from the listing. Can anyone state with confidence whether it's freewheel or freehub?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a4c99e1b96.jpg

And the back side of the cogs, offering a better view of the hub:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7e30fd61f.jpg

That is freewheel. You don't want that one.

A cassette has a lock ring on the end that looks like this:
https://global.discourse-cdn.com/tra...8625e50ed.jpeg

Thanks, icemilkcoffee .

Anyone know the answer to the general question -- can a 7 speed freehub body be swapped for one compatible with 9 sp and *not* make the wheel wider?

Just get wheels with 8-10 speed freehubs. Forget about swapping freehubs- there are a lot of complications with spacers, seal configurations, matching inner diameters, etc.

Can it? Depends.
Until you know what hub you're dealing with no one can say for sure.

Currently sold out but it's way easier to buy an already compatible wheel rather than source parts that may or may not be readily available.

https://velomine.com/products/sun-cr...-135mm-spacing

Thanks for all the advice. Would it be correct to infer that a freehub body with external threads at the outside end is a 7-speed freehub, and ones without are 8+?

+1
This is the best way to protect yourself from yourself.
By the nature of the questions you ask, it's obvious you aren't listening to the answers we give.

No. There was a period in the '90s with the lockring type of 7 speed freehubs were sold on less expensive mountain bikes.

The only way you'll get a 7 speed cassette wheel that you can trade freehubs is if the hub is Shimano, and most will not be. AND, not all Shimano freehubs are compatible. That's why people are advising you to not bother.

Also, some 8. 9. 10 MTB wheels are not all 135. They were initially 130.

You seem a bit fixated on buying a 7spd wheel :) Do ones you’ve seen for sale just look like they match the front (edit: ah clearly not, you want a set) or there’s a bargain available or something?

Here is my thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...s-freehub.html
I ended up rebuilding with a different hub (IIRC FH-M495 I had), but I already had the wheel.

If you are buying a new/new to you wheelset it is easiest to get the proper one with an 8-10s freehub. As the others said, velomine has well priced ones, like this: Velocity Chukker/M590 wheelset
It has Deore level hubs, 36 spokes, very good rims.

7-speed freehub is narrower (and such hubs usually have their right-hand-side flange a bit further out, compared to 8+ speed hubs).
So, swapping a wider freehub there will increase the hub's total width (and, in addition to axle-length problems, it might not fit your frame).
My video explaining the differences:

Note that "exotic" 10-speed-only hubs have narrower freehubs than 8-9 speed ones.
Shimano used to make them for a while (now their 10-speed stuff is 8-9 speed compatible as far as I know).

For the rim size, I suppose you are looking for a 622 mm rims.
That rim size is often referred to as "700c", or as "29-er" if those same rims (sometimes a bit wider, for wider tyres) are put on an MTB.
The ISO / ETRTO sizing standard is 622 mm)

So, for 9-speeds, you could run an 8, 9, 10 (but not 10-only) or an 11-speed-MTB hubs that have a 135 mm OLD.
Wider, "boost" hubs won't fit, and narrower, 130 OLD "road" hubs won't fit either.
11-speed-road hubs are probably not a good idea for reasons explained in the above-noted video, though you could mount a 9-speed cassette on them with enough spacers (as long as they come with a 135 mm OLD).
Rear hub types and sizes explained and rear hub compatibility

Another caveat is your frame's rear dropout width.
Some frames come with a 132.5 mm width, so they can take either 130 or 135 mm OLD hubs.
I think Surly LHT is 135 mm, but it's worth measuring.
You could also cold-set the rear dropout width, if you feel adventrous enough (steel frames take that well, but 135 mm OLD hubs are easily available so I would not go that way).

Relja

Sorry I've not made myself clear. I *am* trying to follow your advice -- looking for how to *avoid* getting a wheel with the wrong type of freehub. Not everyone lists what had been on their wheels, and they sometimes come with a bare freehub. I was hoping for advice on how to visually identify and thus avoid a 7 speed freehub!

Thanks, also csport those look like nice wheels. I will continue trying to find something used and compatible, but will keep those in mind!

Well, you can always ask the seller. And if you get a 7 anyway, return it or get credited under ebay's "not as described" rules.

Honestly, you are making this way too hard. There are millions of used wheels with a 135mm OLD (Over-Lock-nut Dimension). Go looking for one of those and forget trying to adapt something. There are bunches of them on Fleabay for around $50. It looks like you have some bicycle co-ops near you and they have them running out their ears. Just buy the correct wheel and be done with it.

But a wheel built for a 7 speed cassette is going to be dished and the hub spacing different, than one built for a 9-speed. If I understand correctly, I think he's asking if a he can buy a 135mm wheel built for a 7 speed cassette, and just swap his 9-speed cassette onto it. I think the answer is no, since the 9 speed cassette is wider. Wouldn't you need to swap the freehub body, AND redish the wheel?

I have ordered new wheels :)

The hub is going to be spaced differently for a 7 speed freehub. That’s a 130mm OLD hub. The freehub shell is also shorter so a 9 speed cassette won’t fit onto it. The freehub body could be swapped out and spacers added to the axle to make it wide enough for the new freehub shell and bicycle dropouts but an axle would likely be needed as well. Dishing might also need a slight adjustment.

That’s a lot of work when you can just go and get the proper wheel for relatively cheap either new or, cheaper, used.

No. Uniglide freehubs had external locking thread. When Hyperglide was introduced some freehubs were made with both internal HG and external UG threads, but these were discontinued when UG was thoroughly obsolete, so regular 7 speed HG body looks like 8-9-10 speed, just a bit narrower.

+1
Shops in my city still sell Shimano 7-speed freehubs (at least they did this summer).
Here's one:
https://planetbike.rs/nabla-zadnja-s...hty5007-c.html

Low quality (it is Shimano, but it's still crap and turns roughly regardless of how you adjust the preload), but new, Shimano, and won't fit an 8+ speed cassette.

Relja

If 7 speed is 130 OLD, why is this 7 speed freehub 135?

Context. tastewar mentioned “an older 7 speed”, not a modern 7 speed wheel. tastewar also showed a freewheel hub. Shimano may be making a 7 speed 135mm hub now for whatever silly reason but older ones predating 8 speed were 130mm. They were used in early 90s mountain bikes. I run across them all the time. Shimano also made 7/8 and 7/8/9 hubs but those wouldn’t need any kind of freehub body transplant.

Unless you have a time machine, the used wheel market of today will contain a mix of old 130 and new 135, so I don't know why you would advise someone that they won't come across 135 7 speed wheels.