no and yes. over the course of 17 pages this thread has incorporated multiple themes.
one of which is a debate as to whether e-assist-bikes are properly classified as "bicycles."
without re-reading the entire 17 pages, i see one mod deleted some nasty stuff around
post #340, but in no way said "we the moderators hereby declare ebikes to be bicycles".
seemed to me more of an acceptance that touring can be done on a device resembling
a true bicycle, and that there are many areas of mutual concern, so please be polite.
"This is not a thread about debating whether e bikes are bikes. It is about whether threads related to touring that use an e bike but relate to the touring side should be allowed here and what they might add to the global conversation. The answer appears to be yes, according to the mods, and it allows some people to participate and share their unique stories."
You respond to this quote and then say, "so be polite." I'm not sure how more polite that response could have been?
the "save the children" maneuver is a debating tactic often used to shut down
debate. it is an appeal to emotion and feelings rather than to facts. the point is to
add "sob stories" (as another poster put it) that may be completely irrelevant to the
topic, but that will be used to show the inhumanity and insensitivity of the opponent.
the other guy is dared to reply with facts, hurting the feelings of some third party, and
thereby showing himself to be evil incarnate.
This from wikipedia: "Think of the children" has been invoked by censorship proponents to shield children from perceived danger.[7][8] Community, Space and Online Censorship (2009) noted that classifying children in an infantile manner, as innocents in need of protection, is a form of obsession over the concept of purity".
Kind of what I said about people wanting to limit discussion here because it will corrupt the purity of the forum and members won't be able to think critically for themselves.
As to sob stories completely irrelevant to the topic: Would that be real stories told by real people about riding real bikes on real tours or imaginary stories about gas powered bikes made up in an e bike discussion. Not sure which? I am.
i'm sure they are aware. there is a subforum for ebikes. ebikes are permitted here
due to their similary to true bicycles.
you may call ebikes bicycles if you wish, but that won't make it so.
Nor will your saying they aren't make them not so. However, in this context, in this forum, it would appear the moderation team is willing to entertain them as such so the only thing we need to do is not to disrupt those threads maliciously or be reported for trolling.
they aren't quite mopeds, yet they aren't true bicycles. they fit
in their own category between the two. sort of an evolutionary
missing link on the march to goldwings. that's not a bad thing, and
it doesn't make it a lesser creation. but they are different and it won't
hurt to acknowledge that reality.
The only ones who seem to have any sort of trouble coming to grips with acknowledging anything are those who are against them. No one has tried to pretend they are anything but e bikes. They are described as e bikes and I imagine most people know what that means, electrically assisted bikes; so your argument about acknowledgement is specious.
What some are struggling with is acceptance. That's not my or your problem to solve. People don't need to accept them, just accept that others may accept them. Just like I don't like olives but accept that my wife does. I don't have to eat them or participate in online discussions about them if I choose not to.
And no one here will be forced to participate in e bike touring discussions if they don't want to. Really isn't that fair enough?
doesn't help my case? silly, it makes my case! i was argueing the
slippery slope......if you "feel" that an electric assist bicycle is still
a bicycle, then we must also consider the gas assist bicycle as well.
you declared it was futuristic fairytales. i posted the first five of my
google search for "gas assist bicycle." the "pic" was the forum
software showing a screenshot of a youtube video.
Uh.. you are in an e assist thread so you say you must also discuss gas assist and google gas assist and post an image. And you don't feel there's anything wrong with that logic? That's the reasoning that led BA to post a bunch of images of motorcycles which a mod removed because they were... irrelevant.
trying to get across is that some point these devices will appear on
this very forum. a gas-assist bicycle that meets your requirements,
no throttle - max % assist - max power output, either exists or can
easily be built.
for $120 bucks you can snag a 49cc engine that bolts onto the
seattube of your stock bicycle. easy enough to set it up similar
to the e-assit bike. my question to you is....will you
accept a gasoline assist bicycle (which meets all your criteria of
the e-assist-bike with the exception of electric power) as just
a bicycle? or will you exclude it, 'cause, well...it runs on gasoline?
Here in lies the rub.
I really don't waste any time trying to define what is and isn't a "true" bicycle. Could care less because it's a fruitless exercise. True for who? The 20 something fit rider or the double amputee?
I like stories. Stories about real people doing real things. If they resonate I listen, if the don't I don't. Some of you are soooo fixated on the mode of transportation that you ignore the real stories and people behind them. This fixation on a hunk of metal (or CF I suppose) leads people to call strangers lazy or cheaters or what they are doing sob stories.
And the funniest thing is that everyone's "true" bicycle is different anyway. One person on the forum rides a trike recumbent, another a fixie, someone else a custom CF job, me a converted mtb.
Some imagine that what binds us all is the fact that we put 100% of our effort into pedaling but not me. It's the underlying love of touring. It just so happens that I choose a bike to do it with. I like landscapes, shooting video and stills, the sounds, the people. Those things that we talk about here interest me. When I hear about someone who lost 1/3 of his heart muscle but still gets out there with the use of an e assist, that interests me. Listening to someone complain about cheaters being lazy on a holiday doesn't.
That guy touring on a fixie is putting out more effort than me, that girl who rides around the world puts out more effort than me, that team on the tandem splits the effort in half as do the people who have a van carry all their gear. Really, I don't spend any time dwelling on those differences if the story about touring resonates. That one more voice is someone who uses an e bike to tour neither makes nor breaks the bank. I will judge that story on how it resonates as well because I'm mature enough and know my own mind well enough not to be afraid I can't do so without someone keeping me safe from hearing it. And, respectfully enough it seems, I extend that same belief in ability to other forum members as well.
Imagine that. I'm arguing that people here have the intelligence to make up their own minds about which threads interest them and which they want to participate in.