Originally Posted by 63rickert

Ike Safter has been mentioned in this thread. He had a theory I always liked. I don't know if it is right and would be interested also what Doug has to say.
Ike said vibration from rear wheel goes up the seatstay. Most direct route is with fastback stays. Sidetack a little better. With Hellenic the vibration is spread around and does not go direct to the seatlug at all. It makes sense to me but there are so many other things going on. Hellenic also makes the rear triangle smaller which ought to make it stiffer,

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic

That is what I always thought too until I test rode the Cyclery North frame I painted. The owner wanted me to check it out because he thought his Hellenic CN bike rode differently. I mean in theory it triangulates more area so that should stiffen up any rear triangle sway. That advantage would best be utilized in big frames. The seat stays are also laying over more which again in theory (meaning in our heads) would make it more compliant. So it now has all the factors in making one of the most common jokes about the best riding bike frame design - it is latterly stiff and vertically compliant. Yea sure. But I've made frames with standard and Hellenic stays and they ride differently. Whether one likes the difference is a matter of personal taste.

Seat stay attachments are a favorite place to express a builder's style. I'm curious if GT did it that way so they could be easily recognized without looking at the transfers or he felt there was an advantage? My introduction to the Hellenic seat stay style was in the 1969 August or September issue of American Cycling magazine (they eventually changed the name to Bicycling). They did a road test of a Hetchins and instead of choosing a model with their typical curly stays, they chose a Hellenic model instead.

This is one of those things often talked about and seldom tested. I bet Eddy tried both and chose Hellenic because he liked the ride. Did anyone ever talk to him about this? Somebody not named Doug Fattic should build 2 identical bikes and see if they can tell any difference. I certainly thought I did although they weren't identical even though they were similar bikes in my size. The 2 road bikes I ride now both have Hellenic stays - even though I'm not that fond of the looks.

Originally Posted by bulgie

I might have been tempted, except any bikes I build for me to ride nowadays will be for such fat tires that any difference in the ride due to seatstay style will be lost in the noise, compared to the tire compliance.
Or put another way, fat tires means never having to worry if your rear triangle is too stiff!

Mark B