I don't have any experience with the bikes you mentioned but a few weeks ago i took a chance on a steel Marin Muirwoods 2021 that was on special for $750 and pulled the plug. I have converted it to 1x9 along with a few other upgrades and i think it's a great all around heavy duty bike. I have only been able to go around the block a few times due to injuries but it felt very comfortable, even more so than my Sirrus.