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Old 02-02-23, 11:59 AM
  #16  
Andrew R Stewart 
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Location: Rochester, NY
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Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB

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"No one, I believe, directly addressed the OP's saying something about how it's common knowledge that the ride of a frame built by hand by a skilled builder is "obviously" going to be superior to that of a factory built frame, even if both were built with the same geometry, the same tubing, etc." trakhak

I did try to say much the same but I tend to write like I speak and with the lack of face to face context my attempts can fall below my goals. I was trying to make the point that the rider's fit, the bikes geometry and the rest of the package (the parts) will make a huge difference, independent of the tube choices. Note that the first two are well within the builders contribution. It is common to attribute some characteristics to an element that the rider has been trained (by marketing mostly, and much of social media is just an extension of marketing rehashing what we believe in. Yes, this is a circular and reinforcing system) to believe is the cause of some perceived added value (think cost, fancy paint job or the touch of some guy on a pedestal).

Bicycling mag did another experiments with frames of different brand tubes, but with identical geometry and similar (although some slight difference in a few spots, like blade and stay butts) wall thicknesses. In this attempt the three frames were of different colors (adding that psychological aspect of color influences in our perceptions). Just as with the 7 frame experiment the test riders were unable to determine the tube brands for the frames.

The other frame fabrication article I remember dealt with joining methods. Three typical main frame joints done with lugs and silver, bronze and fillet and TiG welding. They did some lab and work bench testing and all three methods will fail but at differing points from the joint and in differing modes. As TiG was, at that time, just becoming the WAY that it had it's own failure mode was "good" to read IMO. Andy (who can't TiG)

PS- I believe I was one of the members here that posted agreement in the thread that trakhak mentioned.
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