Originally Posted by
Drillium Dude
Here's an interesting take on the mystique that surrounds MC to this day; keep in mind, what follows are the musings of a framebuilder, and a highly-regarded one at that.
Quote: "There will never be an end to the debate over Mario and what he built.
The limited number is probably the most significant factor in the unrealistic prices relative to the “actual” quality of the frames. Those who seek the highest prices for these items are within their rights to extract as much money as possible out of the few Confente frames that exist. The only people truly qualified to judge the quality of any other frames are frame builders. We see and know what is involved in making the end result; and know and understand what it takes to do it. The rest of you must go on what you see (mainly the painted finished frame and nothing else), your emotions based on what you think you know about the builder and frame building, what you imagine it takes, and what others might have to say about it. The fact is, most people have to go on emotion/visual input with very little knowledge of what is really being presented.
Every time I make that statement there is someone who says “who the hell do you think you are and what the f*** do you know”. Spare me.
Frame building is not magic, takes moderate skill (about like brain surgery), and I’ve paid my dues for nearly 30 years. Now if there’s another frame builder who would like to take exception to what I say then I’m all ears. I’m not pulling rank on non-builders; but the fact is I know more about it than you do. Put me in your job and I’m the one who knows nothing. Since the topic is frames I feel I can speak with authority. I do my best to present what I know and back it up with facts and explanations as required. If I come off as an “elitist snob” I’m sorry, it’s not my intention. Let’s move on.
I just had a thought that might shed a little light on the subject of value. With any given frame there are two factors. The first is the actual quality of construction, choice of materials, design, style, finish, etc. In other words tangible elements that any experienced and knowledgeable frame builder can point out and explain and give relative credit to compared to other frames of “similar intention”. A certain amount of “style” is personal opinion but there are also traditional accepted elements of design that can be considered “more refined” than something less so. You can’t compare apples and oranges. A Confente is a custom handmade frame. You can’t compare a Schwinn Paramount to it to make a fair comparison.
Other custom handmade frames should be the benchmark. The second factor is “mystique”, “mojo”, emotion, hype, and all other “marketing” oriented factors that each frame has or has not. I guarantee there are hundreds of frames built to Marios’ ability and above that rate zero on the “I have to have one” factor. It’s just the way the world is. If all frames were purchased strictly on the quality of what’s there and nothing else and the price was relative to that, Mario would not make the top ten with absolute certainty. "
DD
I am pretty sure that passage was written many decades on.
When he made a splash at the 1977 NYC trade show, the later consensus of other very capable builders was :
"what could he have done to be that audacious to ask $400. For a frame set?" " what extra effort is in there?"
this was at a time where the work of Richard Sachs and Ben Serotta were $225-275. $400 was a hefty premium beyond, and Confente did not have a wholesale price. A reselling shop marked up from there. Wild at the time.
that might have been a key point to drive home to these builders. Present the effort and have the confidence to demand to be paid for it.