Originally Posted by
livedarklions
It isn't an ad hominem fallacy
I did not meant to suggest (nor suggested afaik) that attacks on my alcoholism were a fallacy. I made it plain and said it was not good. It is true that I drink a lot, and that I would rather drink less. It is an attack on me rather than my argument ((that we'd be healthier riding non pro-like bikes, and that the bike business is getting in the way of health to an extent)) and that is how I understand the meaning of "ad hominem," attacking the human rather than the argument.
Originally Posted by
livedarklions
when you have held yourself up as the model for keeping yourself healthy. You have made your bike, your condition, your diet and your riding habits a model for others to follow in order to keep from becoming obese or to lose enough weight to no longer be obese.
I don't see myself as an ideal of health at all nor represent myself in that way. If I did I would not mention how much I drink and I don't recommend drinking a bottle of wine a day, as I do. I have told the truth about myself. I have good bits and bad bits. I hope that I can inform regarding the healthy bits ( and it seems to me that we should dump rolex bikes and get frankenbikes: bikes that are half way between road bikes and time trial bikes)
Originally Posted by
livedarklions
You put this into histrionic "or die" terms
I may well be, or rather, no you have convinced me. I am being histrionic but, I do think that this is issue is relates to life and death. That means that the over promotion of comfort bikes may be causing death but it does not mean that riding a comfort bike will kill you.
It is very very clear that something is going very wrong in our society, vis a vis obesity, and that even if we can't hear the wailing and knashing of teeth, there is a lot of death, and premature unhealth.
Originally Posted by
livedarklions
implying that not to emulate you was some sort of slow-motion suicide.
I have tried to promote John Cobb's teachings. It is clear that he is obese. He is not model. Nor I am. But he and I have good news, I like to think and for that reason, or the main reason, I tell people his good news. Please folks listen to the fatty his acolyte the alcoholic because we bring good healthy news.
Originally Posted by
livedarklions
As a formerly very obese person who is also a sober alcoholic, I cannot begin to tell you how absurd and offensive it is for you to lecture other people about the supposed lethality of their weight when you are an active addict of a substance that clearly is lethal when used as you described.
I am sorry to hear that you find what I say offensive. Perhaps people who drink too much or otherwise abuse something should not speak but, I guess that then none of us would then criticise anything. I admit that I am bad in many ways. I maintain that what I am saying is not bad (though I may be mistaken about the current effective length of head tubes) but good news for people who want to get healthy.
Originally Posted by
livedarklions
You stated very clearly that a significant portion of your calorie intake is in the form of alcohol. If that's true, there's no way you aren't doing yourself massive amounts of damage to your own body. How dare you turn around and say to people "do as I do or die!"
I do not meant to say that others should drink a lot. I did not say "do as I do or die." I did recommend that people use bikes that are more aero in terms of rider position than those ridden by groups of pros.
I understand what you are saying but I think you are wrong. I listen to the advice of fallible people. People all have their faults and yet their advice is by varying degrees, good bad and mediocre. If you find me offensive...I am sorry.... That is all I can say. Please don't listen to me if you find what I have to say offensive.
Originally Posted by
livedarklions
I know most people who read this won't understand this, but that "or you're going to die" rhetoric is really just a form of shaming and when it comes to moderate obesity, utter bs. Moderately overweight people actually have better life expectancy than moderately underweight. I don't have any tolerance for this nonsense, and I don't find your "eccentricities" on the subject amusing in the slightest.
I don't know what "do or die" rhetoric I have been using, and I don't know about the life expectancy of moderately underweight and moderately overweight people but, is it this? Obesity is going to kill about 1000 people a day every day in just the USA alone. It is something that we should be thinking about, and talking about, and recommending ways to each other, some mistaken, some right, in which we can defeat it, loudly, all of us, imho.
It is possible that some health products encourage facilitate our obesity. Some health bars contain a lot of calories. Some (uses of) mobility buggies result in greater immobility. If some one smokes, drinks, or doesn't exercise should one not attempt to point these things out? I think that I will.
Addendum: Because I am an alcoholic I should shut up? Because I was, or John Cobb is, fat I or he should shut up? Because some one is fallible they should shut up? I hope we all speak and point out the life or death dangers that face us.
Tim