Originally Posted by
Russ Roth
I eagerly await your pictures or links to pictures of a modern style dual pivot that's 90 years old. When shimano 600 came out you are right they used single pivot and you can read what I said that way. What I was actually saying was that when shimano came out with dual pivots the shimano 600 version that I bought were much better then any previous brake. And no, most old rim brakes, no matter how well you set them up were crap, the materials are by modern standards subpar and the means of mounting, quality of the pad rubber, actual engineering, etc were not up to the task of a decent stopping job. To attempt to claim that being happy with the stopping power of a modern ultegra dual pivot would somehow equate to being happy with any previous version of rim brake is absurd and makes your arguments sound ludicrous. quality V-brakes and dual pivots came into existence and stuck around because of their obvious superiority. Just like disc are here to stay.
Obviously there is no "modern style" brake that is 90 years old. What kind of question is that? There are two pivot cantis at least from 1929. Two pivots is two pivots. In the "modern style" the arms move inexorably to center and simply crucify the rim. Then rapid rim wear becomes a reason for using discs. Only works well when the rim and frame are more perfect than can reasonably be expected. Needs every part of system in perfect alignment and needs every part to remain in perfect alignment. Bikes aren't like that.
What "better " seems to mean to people who like their "modern" dual pivots is only that less force is needed at the lever. I don't subscribe to the idea that those with no hand strength at all should even be attempting to ride down the mountain. Strength is needed to control every other part of the bike. If you ain't got it you should not be there. Or at least you should ride slow.
Better materials than the forged arms of a Mafac brake? They last forever, do not wear out. Older Weinmanns the same, they just do not wear out. Yes, you can set them up so as to sabotage them and get very poor performance. Failure rate on these archaic dual pivot brakes is essentially zero. Anyone ever see one broken? Millions and millions of calipers made and they all work. Proven track record of these parts is stunning. No one, no one at all is going to be using any current production bike part 60 or 70 years from now. All of it landfill in progress.
On mountain descents where the pavement remains same as it was there is no change in how long it takes to get from peak to valley for 65 years now. If you want to like a brake because it feels good to you, fine, you don't need any more reason than that. That there is a night and day difference in function is rubbish. What the rider does is in every case far more important than what brake is on the bike. Last time there was a change in brakes that made a difference was 1953. Since then the best brakes of the day have all been more than good enough. The rider rides the bike. The kit does not operate the bike.