Thread: CBD Oil
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Old 01-16-20, 07:04 PM
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canklecat
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I've used some 10mg CBD/1mg THC under the tongue, no discernible effects at all from either substance. Of course this stuff in not assayed. None of it.

Those of us who came of age in the 60s have a good sense of what a psychoactive effect is. I wouldn't know about the rest of you.

Of course my experience is not a study and everyone's different. It would take a number of large double-blind studies with known substances to be able to say anything more definite. Even one study is not useful. Studies must be repeatable for different researchers to be valid.

Meanwhile, experiment all you want. Personal experimentation won't do any harm (except to your wallet) as long as one proceeds cautiously. Don't be like one rather famous NYT reporter and eat a whole 10-hit candy in a couple hours. She did not pass her mental stability test. No wonder her writing is so bad.
My rhetorical questions...
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
While we're at it, here's another tangent for a potentially constructive discussion about cannabis:
  1. Does THC and cannabis containing a significant amount of THC produce psychoactive effects?
  2. How do we know this?
...were to point out that empirical evidence is a valid basis for further analysis. There's a gray zone between anecdotal and empirical, in terms of scientific research. But lack of data doesn't mean the empirical evidence was wrong. Only that it's not completely known how and why something works, not that it doesn't actually work at all.

There's more than enough empirical evidence that cannabis -- in the "marijuana" form (now considered a pejorative or epithetical word due to its origin) -- has psychoactive properties. Nobody honestly disputes that. Science simply attempted to discover how and why it works, and that's still a work in progress.

Plenty of folks say CBD works for them. I was doubtful, mostly because some friends were a mite too enthusiastic and shared preposterous memes claiming cannabis cured cancer. In my opinion they were just stoners desperately trying to justify enjoying pot. I don't think it needs justification. If they enjoy it, go for it. But don't muddy the waters. Fortunately, as cannabis, hemp, whatever, has gone more mainstream, those same folks have stopped posting ridiculous unsupported claims for curing cancer, etc.

But as with recreational weed, CBD quality varies, and dosages vary tremendously among individuals. My first trials with various brands of CBD were unsuccessful, and expensive. Most were junk, just hemp oil flavored with terpenes and other stuff. Hemp has a useful place -- the leaves, stems and seeds. Recreational or medicinal cannabis, and quality CBD, need to come from the flower buds. Leaves, stems and seeds are inadequate sources, yet are still often passed off as the real thing. Sorta like presenting a loved one with a bunch of stems with thorns and saying "I bought you some roses."

The one legitimate variety of CBD I tried back in summer 2018, when I was still in a lot of pain from being hit by a car, was PlusCBD Oil (labeled +CBDoil on packaging), a brand most often seen in health food shops because of effective marketing and good quality at a somewhat middling-high price. The gelatin capsules and oil tinctures are usually supplied in 10mg and 15mg doses. I took it as directed and experienced little or no relief. (A manager at a local health food store suggested kratom instead, which has worked effectively for me. A whole 'nuther product that's still in a gray zone.)

But increasing the dosage did the trick. I usually take 50-100 mg a day, so I buy the strongest potency stuff that's affordable. And research indicates that effective dosages of Epidiolex are quite high for seizure disorders, and it takes 200 mg or more of CBD to be effective where it's recognized as a treatment for some disorders. Due to the theorized connection between vagal response and migraines I hoped CBD would be useful for preventing or minimizing my frequent headaches, which started as a kid and have persisted for more than 60 years. I've already tried many prescriptions from many neurologists, had CT scans, MRIs, the works, over many decades. So I was willing to consider anything. I wouldn't call CBD a miracle cure for severe headaches, but it sure helps when I take enough of it. And there are fewer side effects than with Cafergot, Imitrex injections, massive dosage of valproic acid and other prescriptions. And it's been effective for mild to moderate chronic pain.

Just an anecdote. But enough of those together begin to resemble empirical evidence. On that basis we knew high-THC cannabis had psychoactive properties. Nobody needed a peer reviewed research paper to prove pot gets people stoned. So why not consider anecdotes about relief from pain and anxiety from CBD in the same light?

If I had considered my youthful experiments I would have remembered that I usually tolerated a much higher dosage of any recreational substances than my friends. I was often the designated sane/sober person at parties because I reacted less strongly to everything and always seemed straight -- even when my brain was telling me differently. I remember a long and pleasant conversation with my mom and stepdad at their apartment in Greenwich Village around 1973 after I'd taken some rather potent windowpane that I'd gotten from some hippies in the park. The only visual psychoactive effect was a glass jar of multicolored pebbles on the table kept swimming around like serpents. But I always liked snakes so that was amusing. I don't think my mom or stepdad had any idea. They weren't exactly tolerant of that sort of thing. My experiences with LSD were exactly as Timothy Leary, Art Clokey (the Gumby creator) and others had described -- positive mind opening experiences.

I never had any bad experiences and never actually saw anyone else having a bad experience, although I heard apocryphal tales from acquaintances. I do remember a girlfriend who seemed a bit flaky. Her friends worried that she had taken far too much LSD too often. I didn't know her before so I had no basis for comparison.

But I don't take this stuff lightly -- figuratively or literally. I've mentioned before in similar conversations my extended family have a history of addiction, mostly alcoholism, some drug abuse. I'm very aware of the risks. In my case the genetic predisposition skipped over me. It's not willpower. I just don't get the craving other folks do. I don't even care for the sensation of recreational cannabis anymore. But I appreciate the potential for medicinal purposes.
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