Well this thread turned into a mish mash of nothingness. Really weird how anyone into the road bike scene when I was a yute, was kinda on the same page. Similar backgrounds, similar interests, knew how to ride, was into Eddy. This thread just shows me how opinionated and disjointed the cycling culture is. Thanks for your responses, though very few addressed the issue. A lot of senseless bickering....oh yeah, its bikeforums.