Originally Posted by
Kontact
It is 2018 and I went to Specialized website and looked at the bikes you mentioned. But if you want to talk about past models:
73.5° and 74° are both steep seat tube angles, so any argument about "more relaxed" position is way off base when you are comparing steep and steeper. "Relaxed" for medium sized bikes is when the STA is less than 73°. These angles are just relative - there is a very concrete relationship between STA and expected set back, and those angles are NOT going to create the extra set back of a relaxed, more upright position bicycle. They are both "aggressive", steep STAs...
...says he who conveniently and suddenly abondons his prior argument about the headtube length and reach.
Gee, I'm so sorry that the seattube angle is only a little slacker than on the Tarmac.
You asked for numbers, but then you backpedal and pick nits, just like your following sideshow quote:
"Trek and Lemond weren't "the same maker" any more than Giant is "the same" as the Trek's they made"
So I guess that even though Trek made the identical (including all dimensions) frame labeled as a 60cm Trek but as a 57cm LeMond means we're not talking about the same "maker" here, LOL.